Notices
Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

Cyclist's palsy - it's real!

Old 04-09-19, 11:11 AM
  #26  
zowie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: US
Posts: 829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
How does one treat this once it sets in?
zowie is offline  
Old 04-09-19, 11:39 AM
  #27  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 3,373

Bikes: https://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1487 Post(s)
Liked 281 Times in 190 Posts
Wait for the feeling to come back. I pinched a nerve in my shoulder once and it took 6 months to get the feeling back in my hand.
kingston is offline  
Old 04-10-19, 08:26 PM
  #28  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 17,226

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2840 Post(s)
Liked 750 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by zowie View Post
How does one treat this once it sets in?
Never again do whatever it was you did. Wait. Hope. Nerves are amazingly good at repairing themselves. I do these hand exercises several times a day when I have hand or wrist problems. They seem to help.
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Exercises
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 04-14-19, 07:58 PM
  #29  
hilltowner
Senior Member
 
hilltowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ashfield, Mass.
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
... Most cycling specific gloves have a gap there so it doesn't push on the nerve. Adding too much padding can cause this problem. The ulnar nerve probably is easier to push on. ...
I've had good success with these with their "ulnar channel groove." https://shop.serfas.com/p/rsm-rd-men...rt-finger?pp=8
hilltowner is offline  
Old 05-19-19, 05:59 AM
  #30  
Bassmanbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 785

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Supersix EVO 3, 2015 Trek 520, 2017 Bike Friday Pocket Rocket

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked 139 Times in 79 Posts
Did you also have numbness going down your arm, from the elbow to your pinky and ring finger? If so, you probably had Cubital Tunnel Syndrome. I had this for about a week when I was training for my first century ride. The ulnar nerve comes around the elbow and enters the Cubital Tunnel, just distal to the elbow. It gets pinched at this point from hours of having your elbow somewhat flexed. It is becoming more common with many people who use their smart phones so much. Picture yourself using your smart phone as a computer instead of a phone. Your elbows are at an angle just larger than 90 degrees. That's a similar position to our arms when cycling.

I saw an orthopedic surgeon as soon as possible and also had nerve conduction studies done by a neurologist to see how much damage was done to the ulnar nerve. I was really scared, considering I use my hands for work. I treated the condition by wearing an elbow brace at night to keep my elbow straight. In all honesty, I just took a short length of 1 X 2 wood and loosely wrapped an Ace bandage around my arm when I was sleeping or lounging. This helped. I also no longer allow my elbows to be so flexed when I'm riding. This does put some more stress on my shoulders, so I try to place my hands in different positions every few minutes.

If you didn't have numbness going down your arm, then I hope this is helpful to someone else.
Bassmanbob is offline  
Old 03-14-20, 05:20 PM
  #31  
MinnMan
Senior Member
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 3,644

Bikes: 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2467 Post(s)
Liked 1,463 Times in 881 Posts
This is a very illuminating thread that I'll revive after a year. I think I just joined the hand numbness club. I did a century today and several hours later, I have numbness in the index finger of one hand. Based on Machka's helpful illustration, I'm thinking that I've compressed the medial nerve.

I'm not sure what was different about today. I do centuries all the time, including one earlier this week, on this bike and others, and I've not had this before. I wonder how long it will last?

(Edit added afterwards: I had a 400+ mile week, and that's unusual for me, so that probably contributed to the situation. Hopefully this will resolve in weeks, not months...It's not painful, but it's bothersome.)

Last edited by MinnMan; 03-15-20 at 08:49 AM.
MinnMan is online now  
Old 03-15-20, 03:51 AM
  #32  
gif4445
Senior Member
 
gif4445's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Kearney NE
Posts: 495

Bikes: Specialized Diverge, Volagi Liscio, LHT, Trek 1.2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
This is a very illuminating thread that I'll revive after a year. I think I just joined the hand numbness club. I did a century today and several hours later, I have numbness in the index finger of one hand. Based on Machka's helpful illustration, I'm thinking that I've compressed the medial nerve.

I'm not sure what was different about today. I do centuries all the time, including one earlier this week, on this bike and others, and I've not had this before. I wonder how long it will last?
I'm not a Dr., but I would think being that it was just a century, you should get over it shortly. Last June I rode in a 4200 mile race. By mile 3500, I was having some carpal tunnel type issues. Numbness in thumb and index finger lasted until around Christmas. A long time, but it did go away. I blamed it first on the numerous amount of shifting I did in the last 1000 or so miles in the up and downers of Missouri, Kentucky and Virginia and that I should have gotten electric shifting. But after a closer look on where I placed my palms in the hood position, the carpal tunnel area lined up exactly with the base of the hood. I used numerous hand positions during the ride, including aerobars. But the massive time on the road, especially when leaving the hands in the position to do all the shifting that was needed on the last riding segment, was too much.
gif4445 is offline  
Old 04-17-20, 08:42 PM
  #33  
BrazAd
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Albany GA
Posts: 151

Bikes: '83 Trek 400, '11 Bianchi Sempre

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
A year or more later, my hand did get back to normal about 2 weeks after that 114-1/2 mile ride with 6,600 ft/climbing in March 2019. Since then I've dropped 25 lbs and have had no hand issues whatsoever. In the past few weeks I've completed rides of 83 miles, 90 miles, 103 miles and several half-century rides - all solo rides with the new "SIP" regulations in southwest Georgia - and have had no recurrence.

I did get a set of carbon aero handlebars put on my 2015 Cannondale Synapse about 2 weeks ago, mostly to reduce road vibrations for the long rides. I'm planning another solo century ride tomorrow morning and anticipate no issues.

Glad my hand healed itself!

Gary
BrazAd is offline  
Old 04-18-20, 06:58 AM
  #34  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 20,925
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 918 Times in 678 Posts
Thanks for checking back. My experience has been that it can come back if you aren't careful, so be mindful if you ever have numbness again and change hand positions
unterhausen is offline  
Old 04-19-20, 05:13 PM
  #35  
HeyItsSara
Meet me at spin class!!!!
 
HeyItsSara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY
Posts: 130

Bikes: Precor recumbant indoor bike, Stages bike at Equinox gym

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 15 Posts
For 9 years I have taken spin class three times a week and at some point, my wrists are weakened. I have to modify all gym exercises involving my wrists. I am not sure full function will ever come back.
HeyItsSara is offline  
Old 04-24-20, 07:33 PM
  #36  
gravelslider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I have numbness in my left hand that I got on a 1200km ride last summer. I blame it on a road with expansion joints every 30 feet for miles and miles. It has finally subsided after 7 months, but it's still there to a small degree. I wouldn't say it ever was really weakness. I find that it almost always goes away after a month, sometimes as short as a week. But it can be permanent, so the best idea is to avoid it if possible. Seat back and longer stem takes weight off of the hands. Of course, that might not be your most powerful position, so tradeoffs are necessary.
I am pretty sure a longer stem pulls you more forward which means more weight is on your hands to support the upper body so... more pressure on your hands.
gravelslider is offline  
Old 04-24-20, 09:23 PM
  #37  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 17,226

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2840 Post(s)
Liked 750 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by gravelslider View Post
I am pretty sure a longer stem pulls you more forward which means more weight is on your hands to support the upper body so... more pressure on your hands.
Not true. More reach moves your hands forward. The rest of you stays where it was. The upper body maintains angle of lean by two torques applied to the torso, the top of the saddle being the pivot point. One torque is provided by the core muscles. The other torque is provided by the hands/arms. A torque is force*lever arm. If you increase the lever arm and maintain the same torque, force must be reduced. It's just simple statics. IOW, hands move forward, less weight on them. Increasing reach does not mean moving one's butt forward, if anything, the opposite..And of course as unterhousen observed, both moving the butt back and the hands forward will make quite a difference. Being "pretty sure" isn't the same thing as having done many experiments and observed the results.

DannoXYZ's famous Numb Hands post provides photos of what light hands looks like as well as some hints on staying off the bad pressure spots: Numb Hands.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 04-24-20, 09:33 PM
  #38  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 17,226

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2840 Post(s)
Liked 750 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by HeyItsSara View Post
For 9 years I have taken spin class three times a week and at some point, my wrists are weakened. I have to modify all gym exercises involving my wrists. I am not sure full function will ever come back.
Have you done a lot of dumbbell work? Wrist curls, reverse wrist curls, side raises, forward raises, back raises, overhead presses, etc. (youtube) Riding should strengthen them, not weaken. 3 hours a week . . .I've ridden 6-12 hours a week for 25 years and I'm sure many on here have done a lot more than that. Be sure to move your saddle back until your hands feel light on the bars. Or do you mean that not being actively riding, steering, braking, etc., has allowed your wrists to weaken? I think it's possible to reverse almost all injuries or weaknesses of this sort.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 04-24-20, 10:33 PM
  #39  
gravelslider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
The upper body maintains angle of lean by two torques applied to the torso, the top of the saddle being the pivot point. One torque is provided by the core muscles. The other torque is provided by the hands/arms. A torque is force*lever arm. If you increase the lever arm and maintain the same torque, force must be reduced. It's just simple statics.
So let me get this straight. Your hands are applying significant torque to support part of your torso by gripping the handlebar and applying a twisting force to support part of your upper body weight? (Torque is a twisting force of course.) I guess I have been riding incorrectly all of these years as I apply absolutely no torque with my hands at all when I ride. I am curious, how many foot-pounds of torque ("force*lever arm") do you think you apply with your hands to those handlebars?
gravelslider is offline  
Old 04-24-20, 11:08 PM
  #40  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 17,226

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2840 Post(s)
Liked 750 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by gravelslider View Post
So let me get this straight. Your hands are applying significant torque to support part of your torso by gripping the handlebar and applying a twisting force to support part of your upper body weight? (Torque is a twisting force of course.) I guess I have been riding incorrectly all of these years as I apply absolutely no torque with my hands at all when I ride. I am curious, how many foot-pounds of torque ("force*lever arm") do you think you apply with your hands to those handlebars?
"Twisting" isn't the word one uses. Torque is just torque. Twisting implies a torque applied to one end of a rod. For instance when one applies power to the wheels of a car, we might say that the powertrain is twisting the axle, the wheel applying torque at one end and the opposite torque being applied at the other by the differential. The axle will "wind up" a small amount as a result of these torques, i.e. "twisting.". None of that has any application to the subject we're discussing.

But to answer your question, I can lift my hands off the bars completely without sliding or falling forward, their bit of torque being compensated for by additional torque applied by my core..I'm guessing maybe 5 lbs. of force divided between my hands. Lever arm is 32", so about 13 foot-pounds of torque.

My hands haven't gotten tired, except for shifting our cabled tandem in very hilly terrain, which is just good exercise, though my longest day's ride has been only 18 hours
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 04-25-20, 07:40 PM
  #41  
Moonshae
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 8

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix Sport 2020

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I've been following the advice in the Numb Hands thread, specifically regarding the contact point, at the fleshy pad toward the outside of my hand. My issues have gotten worse. Riding on the tops is uncomfortable as my wrists flex inward and I want to move my thumbs on top, too (which I know is wrong). The hoods are comfortable, more or less, but my left hand is getting progressively worse, so something is wrong. My right hand, though similarly positioned, is weirdly unaffected. My forearms are now almost parallel to the ground, so my elbows and shoulders are not locked and putting my upper body weight on my hands. I can wiggle all my fingers at any time...my hold is very loose and mostly just rests on that fleshy pad.

I'm really at a loss.
Moonshae is offline  
Old 04-26-20, 08:25 AM
  #42  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 20,925
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 918 Times in 678 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
But to answer your question, I can lift my hands off the bars completely without sliding or falling forward, their bit of torque being compensated for by additional torque applied by my core..I'm guessing maybe 5 lbs. of force divided between my hands. Lever arm is 32", so about 13 foot-pounds of torque.
As you say, if your hands are off the bar, your core needs to supply a torque to keep you from face planting into the handlebars. However, if your hands are on the handlebars, it's mostly just forces. There will be a torque at your shoulders to counteract the unbalanced forces due to your arms stretching forwards. Maybe that's why people with poor core strength get sore shoulders.

Originally Posted by Moonshae View Post
I'm really at a loss.
I'm sorry to hear this. Fit can be really frustrating. It's really difficult to diagnose your problems from here. I think you need to get with an understanding fitter to work out your problems. My thought is your handlebars are too high.

Last edited by unterhausen; 04-26-20 at 08:29 AM.
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:
Old 04-26-20, 08:47 AM
  #43  
Moonshae
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 8

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix Sport 2020

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I'm sorry to hear this. Fit can be really frustrating. It's really difficult to diagnose your problems from here. I think you need to get with an understanding fitter to work out your problems. My thought is your handlebars are too high.
Yes, I'm looking forward to everything reopening and being allowed to go in for a bike fit. Timing is unfortunate!
Moonshae is offline  
Likes For Moonshae:
Old 04-26-20, 12:23 PM
  #44  
HeyItsSara
Meet me at spin class!!!!
 
HeyItsSara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY
Posts: 130

Bikes: Precor recumbant indoor bike, Stages bike at Equinox gym

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Have you done a lot of dumbbell work? Wrist curls, reverse wrist curls, side raises, forward raises, back raises, overhead presses, etc. (youtube) Riding should strengthen them, not weaken. 3 hours a week . . .I've ridden 6-12 hours a week for 25 years and I'm sure many on here have done a lot more than that. Be sure to move your saddle back until your hands feel light on the bars. Or do you mean that not being actively riding, steering, braking, etc., has allowed your wrists to weaken? I think it's possible to reverse almost all injuries or weaknesses of this sort.
Yes, I do a lot of dumbell work - I lift weights 3 days a week. Maye this is just as good as it gets. But thanks for replying!
HeyItsSara is offline  
Old 08-27-20, 04:40 AM
  #45  
papaki72
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Cubital syndrome hit me too. After the last long rides a month ago, I started having pain in the elbows and numbness in the last two fingers on both hands. Currently, I take an anti-inflamatory drug once a day and do twice a day a few nerve gliding exercises. However, it seems that the problem improves slowly. I still get some pain at the side of the little finger on both hands and a bit of pain on the elbows. What worries me is if it is normal to see progress that slow, or should I consider other more aggressive means of treatment like surgery.
papaki72 is offline  
Old 08-27-20, 08:39 AM
  #46  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 20,925
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 918 Times in 678 Posts
This thread is getting pretty old now. My numbness has continued to improve to the point where it's not really noticeable. I'm not sure it's any worse than what my base level would be. I'm sure there are people my age that have never ridden long distances on a bicycle that have hands that are worse condition than mine.

I rode 1000k twice last year. Unfortunately, the second one was supposed to be 1200k. I didn't pick up any new hand issues from that.
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:
Old 08-27-20, 06:27 PM
  #47  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 7,770

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2082 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 392 Times in 331 Posts
Patience can be needed on some of this stuff. I had a bad bike crash in 2012, shoulder surgery the next year, then two years later a different surgeon fixed some of the mistakes that the first surgeon made but she could not fix them all. Since then on long rides, my lower left arm can have numbness problems. But every year it gets a little bit better, today did a 57 mile ride (in 90 plus degree (F) heat) and my left arm did not bother me at all.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Likes For Tourist in MSN:
Old 08-28-20, 05:11 AM
  #48  
papaki72
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I thought that this damn thing in one month would be over, but it seems that by just using anti-inflammatory drugs it will take quite a while longer.
papaki72 is offline  
Old 08-28-20, 06:13 AM
  #49  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 20,925
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 918 Times in 678 Posts
How long were your long rides? Elbow pain probably isn't inflammation, I suggest pushups for those
unterhausen is offline  
Old 08-31-20, 02:35 AM
  #50  
papaki72
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
How long were your long rides? Elbow pain probably isn't inflammation, I suggest pushups for those
I started with daily rides of 20Km and 80Km on weekends. In a month, I had intense pain in the elbows and pain in the two last finders along with pain in the palm on that side. I had carpal tunnel release on my right hand last April and I sure need to strengthen both arms. But with this... Plain bad luck!
papaki72 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.