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Training for Back to Back ride

Old 03-02-20, 02:55 PM
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Clinticus83
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Training for Back to Back ride

Im sure this is out there somewhere, and I just couldnt find the thread.. .
I rode my first century last year, and managed what i think is a fairly respectable (but not amazingly fast) 16mph (15.99 average speed by chip, ~4000 ft of climbing). When it was over, I ate a LOT of food, and then wanted to ride some more.

This year, I'm considering riding the same event, but for two days back to back (Saturday Century, Sunday Medio(~70 miles)). You get a special jersey for managing it within supported ride time, and it just seems like a cool thing to accomplish. Any advice out there for surviving back to back rides..special nutrition planning, recovery tips?
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Old 03-02-20, 10:40 PM
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Doesn't sound like anything you need to worry or plan about... to me it feels like a typical fast club weekend ride -- Saturday club rides somewhere, finishes in the afternoon, everyone goes home to rest/eat/sleep/whatever, then meet again on Sunday for another big ride.

You'll probably need to worry about lack of fitness or training only if you were already bonked at the end of the first ride and feeling like **** the following day.
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Old 03-03-20, 05:43 AM
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Go as slow as you can on day one.
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Old 03-03-20, 06:53 AM
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The main thing is sleep in between the two rides. Don't drink too much beer. I usually feel like garbage after a long ride, even if it's as short as a century. The hard part will be getting started the second day. Just keep in mind that you will start to feel better after 10 minutes or so.
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Old 03-03-20, 10:33 AM
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Man, I'm either in exactly the right place, or exactly the wrong one. . . a century still feels like a big deal to me - it's nothing to you guys.

Point taken on the beer. . .maybe I won't stop at the finish line beer tent on Saturday.
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Old 03-03-20, 10:55 AM
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Some protein soon after you finish the ride on the first day would help with muscle recovery. When I am bike touring and riding every day for over a week, I try to remember to have a protein bar at the end of every day while I am setting up my tent.

Have spare everything for what you wear for day two, just in case it rained on day one. For example if your shoes got wet on day one, a dry pair for day two would be nice, etc. If you do not have a spare pair of shoes, that is not a must-have item, but if you have them you should have them along.
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Old 03-03-20, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Clinticus83 View Post
Man, I'm either in exactly the right place, or exactly the wrong one. . . a century still feels like a big deal to me - it's nothing to you guys.

Point taken on the beer. . .maybe I won't stop at the finish line beer tent on Saturday.
Limit it to one beer.

I am not saying that a century is no big deal. I always thought it was pretty funny when randonneurs call a 200km ride a short ride. But come summertime, I generally think of 300k as a short ride. I know I can fake it up to 400k with poor training. Might be a sufferfest though.
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Old 03-03-20, 12:56 PM
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Oh, man, I struggle with what I call the "Morning After" rides. Long hard ride... Then wow, getting up and going the next morning can be tough.

Perhaps it would help to go on a 3-5 day "tour", including a few long segments before you main ride.

Make sure you are in good shape for the ride, and eat well both days.
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Old 03-04-20, 01:14 AM
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I am doing a 206-miler over two days in July. I can already ride 100 miles right now no problem, but it has been 30 years since I did those kinds of things back to back. Right now, I always take at least one day off after a ride like that. Additional training recommendations?

I don't care at all about my time, but I tend right now to average about 16 mph, so not super fast. I am in my 50s and am doing this for the fun and the health benefits. I was planning on doing my own 200 miles over two days some time in early June, just so I had done it and also so there is enough time to recover before the actual Seattle to Portland ride in mid-July. Is there something else I should be doing?

Thanks!!!
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Old 03-04-20, 03:39 AM
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Getting on the bike the second day may be a challenge, especially if you don't sleep well I(often don't sleep well the night after a 100 mile ride). But once you're on the bike, out in the sunshine, I think you'll be fine. Your speed may suffer a bit, but if that's not a concern, well, then that's not a concern.
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Old 03-04-20, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
...Is there something else I should be doing?

Thanks!!!
Budget your time for when you have to get up so you are not late on day two.

Years ago when I traveled a lot for work and stayed in the cheap motels that my employer paid for, I found three alarm clocks to be quite useful.

Last summer on my bike tour I do not recall what time I had to get to the ferry terminal to make the ferry, but I think I set a new personal best for getting up early, having coffee and breakfast, and getting my campsite packed up early enough that I had enough time to ride to the ferry terminal on time.

I was early enough that I documented it with a photo.

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Old 03-04-20, 01:52 PM
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I think the training for getting up the second day is to get up the second day. You really have to decide you want to ride, or you'll stay in bed. And possibly regret it later. But I guarantee the temptation to stay in bed will be strong.
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Old 03-04-20, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I think the training for getting up the second day is to get up the second day. You really have to decide you want to ride, or you'll stay in bed. And possibly regret it later. But I guarantee the temptation to stay in bed will be strong.
I rode a fairly tough 300 on Saturday, finishing at midnight. I foolishly had arranged to be at work at 11am on Sunday. If not for that I would have had a few beers after the ride and slept until mid afternoon Sunday.
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Old 03-05-20, 06:40 AM
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That sounds like extremely poor planning. Makes me sleepy just thinking about it
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Old 03-05-20, 01:54 PM
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Consider, as a rule of thumb, that you burn 40-50 calories per mile (depending on your weight and how hard you're riding). You'll be burning 4000-5000 calories on top of your BMR on day 1. You only have about 2000 readily available calories floating around in your body. So calorie management is important.

- Eat continuously during your rides, especially on day 1. Mostly easy-to-digest carbs, although that admittedly gets boring. Like, bring a bunch of energy bars and eat half a bar every 30 minutes (if not more frequently). Even with that you'll probably have an empty tank at the end of day 1.
- Also, obviously, hydrate well.
- Within 30 minutes of finishing the day-1 ride, get something solid to eat. Again, mostly carbs. Your body can absorb calories much more readily right after you finish a workout, and you'll need them.
- If there's a way to get a leg massage after the day-1 ride, do so.
- Sleep well.
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Old 03-05-20, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Getting on the bike the second day may be a challenge, especially if you don't sleep well I(often don't sleep well the night after a 100 mile ride)
Me,

I'm out like a log after a hard ride.
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Old 03-07-20, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by adamrice View Post
Consider, as a rule of thumb, that you burn 40-50 calories per mile (depending on your weight and how hard you're riding). You'll be burning 4000-5000 calories on top of your BMR on day 1. You only have about 2000 readily available calories floating around in your body. So calorie management is important.

- Eat continuously during your rides, especially on day 1. Mostly easy-to-digest carbs, although that admittedly gets boring. Like, bring a bunch of energy bars and eat half a bar every 30 minutes (if not more frequently). Even with that you'll probably have an empty tank at the end of day 1.
- Also, obviously, hydrate well.
- Within 30 minutes of finishing the day-1 ride, get something solid to eat. Again, mostly carbs. Your body can absorb calories much more readily right after you finish a workout, and you'll need them.
- If there's a way to get a leg massage after the day-1 ride, do so.
- Sleep well.
I agree with the above, but as some points of elaboration and clarity...

Even the leanest person has tens of thousands of calories stored in their body.

Roughly half of your calories burned riding will come from stored fat.

Don't overeat on the bike 200 to 350 calories per hour is an upper limit of what one can digest. If you consume more than you can digest, yer on a one way ride to Pukesville. You can't and don't need to replace what you burn by eating.
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Old 03-09-20, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
I agree with the above, but as some points of elaboration and clarity...

Even the leanest person has tens of thousands of calories stored in their body.

Roughly half of your calories burned riding will come from stored fat.

Don't overeat on the bike 200 to 350 calories per hour is an upper limit of what one can digest. If you consume more than you can digest, yer on a one way ride to Pukesville. You can't and don't need to replace what you burn by eating.
Absolutely, Even the leanest marathoner could run at least 3 back to back just on stored fat. An interesting thing I notice around here is the number of randonneurs who are way over a cyclist's optimum weight. Way over. I think that comes from not eating enough on the bike and then being starving hungry after. Easy to overeat after. It's actually hard to eat 1/2 your burn. Say you're averaging 16 while you're moving. That 40-50/mile becomes more than twice what it's possible to eat per hour. I try for 250/hour or 60g or so, almost all fast carbs. The most important hours to eat on the bike are the first 3. That sets your routine. If you eat rest stop food, think about how many calories you are grabbing. Usually it's not enough. Fruit and pretzels? Really? Give me a Hostess Fruit Pie any day.

Figuring out what you can keep eating at 250/hour takes a good bit of experience.
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Old 03-10-20, 02:46 AM
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I knew an ultra runner, successful one, who would eat a cheesecake--an entire cheesecake--at around mile 50 or so on some of his races. Seemed to work for him.
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Old 03-10-20, 03:08 AM
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I can ride 50-60 mile rides with no extra preparation. These aren't unusual for me. But I only rarely do 90 or 100 miles, and it's a long day.

A couple of years ago I did one of the regional weekend event rides, 100 on Saturday. I expected that I'd only want to cruise 25 miles or so on Sunday, but went along with other local riders doing 50 miles, and finished it comfortably.
Just get through the first few miles on the second day! Those aren't easy...

Calories per mile
T
hat mention of 40-50 calories per mile probably only applies to very hard efforts over the full ride.

My 100 mile ride last year had 6000 feet of climbing, with lots of smaller hills all day long. My power meter reported 2740 kilojoules. Kilojoules roughly match up with calories. I often see around 30 calories per mile for my rides, just like this.

Last edited by rm -rf; 03-10-20 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 03-10-20, 07:11 AM
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Or some of these calories, but they do not store well, have to consume soon after purchase.



Or, some of these calories,

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Old 03-10-20, 09:18 AM
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Old 03-11-20, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
Calories per mile
T
hat mention of 40-50 calories per mile probably only applies to very hard efforts over the full ride.

My 100 mile ride last year had 6000 feet of climbing, with lots of smaller hills all day long. My power meter reported 2740 kilojoules. Kilojoules roughly match up with calories. I often see around 30 calories per mile for my rides, just like this.
As an example: 40 cal/mile * 14 miles/ hour means about 560 calories per hour. That's how much you are burning, yes, but you don't need to and - most importantly - can't - eat to replace what you burn. You only need to replace a portion of that (roughly half), - in this example about 280 calories per hour.

If you tried to eat 560 calories per hour, for multiple hours in a row while riding, you'd get sick, and that would probably end your randonnee.
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Old 03-12-20, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Clinticus83 View Post
...You get a special jersey for managing it within supported ride time, and it just seems like a cool thing to accomplish...
What's the cutoff time?
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Old 03-12-20, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
I knew an ultra runner, successful one, who would eat a cheesecake--an entire cheesecake--at around mile 50 or so on some of his races. Seemed to work for him.
Yeah, but this depends on the length of the event. Even 24 hour events like the Furnace Creek 508 require almost total carbs dribbled in, the intensity is still so high at that distance. Ultrarunners have to operate at a much lower intensity. RAAM riders have a bit more freedom, but the fastest still consume a lot of liquid carbs. Say a RAAM rider is 200 calories/hour short. In 200 hours of riding. (I'm guessing) that'll be 40,000 calories short or only 8 lbs. of fat. That's probably a little low, say 10 lbs. of fat lost over the duration. They try to get enough protein with their carbs that they don't lose much muscle. So eat like a 508 rider, that's 19 bottles of Ensure, lots of Perpetuem, and lots of electrolyte drink over the 24 hours. It's a good model.
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