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Bisaddle - has anyone tried one for rando?

Old 12-08-20, 09:54 AM
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83cannondale
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Bisaddle - has anyone tried one for rando?

Hi - I'm trying to workout saddle problem - perineum issues butt mostly sit bones - I do about 5000 miles a year, up to 600k brevets. Did pbp last year. I've used B17, SMP drakon and lite 209, selle anatomica, Something weird I discovered was that my sit bones are uneven and maybe not symmetrically centered...! Looking at my B17 and Selle Anatomica I see the right side indent is deeper than the left side. Sitting on the lite 209 I feel pressure on the right side while the left actually feels like it hangs off the saddle. I've tried all positioning I can think of, nose up, nose down, saddle canted right and left.


Sit bones measure between 90 and 100 mm.


So, thinking the Bisaddle might be good. However I'm a little put off by the sophisticated marketing they use, also, I called the company and the owner has a few different companies reachable using the same phone number... Not sure what that means, Maybe the guy is a good marketer and is pushing a variety of products? If so, why a bike seat? High margin? Dunno -


Anyway, if it works, it works. So, any fellow rando or ultra guys had experience with Bisaddle to solve seat issues.? Your input is greatly appreciated as it will blow a big hole in my biking budget if I buy one. They do have a return program, which is good.


Thanks

Todd ( 83cannondale)
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Old 12-08-20, 10:26 AM
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I am not a rando or ultra rider but I recently bought the BiSaddle. So far I have 78 miles on it. The first ride showed I needed to adjust the height and forward positions. Now I have it located. It is more comfortable than the Fabric saddle it replaced. The amount of adjustment is interesting. So far I have not changed the adjustments it arrived with. I may do a YouTube video when I get more miles. The 90 day return policy is what caused me to give it a try.
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Old 12-09-20, 09:55 AM
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When you say canted right and left, I assume you have tried shimming the clamp so that the right or left side of the saddle is higher.

One more thing you can try if you have not tried it yet is having your saddle rotated slightly to the left or right. Not sure if it would help, but that is one more option to try.

I have a lower back injury, for several years now I have had my saddle mounted so that a straight line through the saddle does not pass through my stem cap bolt, instead that straight line is about an inch to an inch and a half to the left of my stem cap bolt. (It took me a while to figure out a reproducible way to estimate the angle I wanted, sighting across the top of the saddle to the stem cap worked best for me.)

A year ago I mentioned to a physical therapist that specialized in spine therapy how I had my bike saddle turned to the left, she was not surprised at all. She had seen the X rays of my lower back so she knew what I was dealing with.
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Old 12-10-20, 12:58 PM
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bisaddle?

Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
When you say canted right and left, I assume you have tried shimming the clamp so that the right or left side of the saddle is higher.

One more thing you can try if you have not tried it yet is having your saddle rotated slightly to the left or right. Not sure if it would help, but that is one more option to try.

I have a lower back injury, for several years now I have had my saddle mounted so that a straight line through the saddle does not pass through my stem cap bolt, instead that straight line is about an inch to an inch and a half to the left of my stem cap bolt. (It took me a while to figure out a reproducible way to estimate the angle I wanted, sighting across the top of the saddle to the stem cap worked best for me.)

A year ago I mentioned to a physical therapist that specialized in spine therapy how I had my bike saddle turned to the left, she was not surprised at all. She had seen the X rays of my lower back so she knew what I was dealing with.
Thanks for the input - by "canted" I meant turned left and right both - haven't tried shimming, thought I did think of it. My seat post isn't set up to allow shimming I don't think. That's why I thought I'd look into bi-saddle.
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Old 12-10-20, 01:26 PM
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My thought based on your first post is that the seat probably wants to be "canted" (ie the post turned) to the right to move the wide part of the right side back and a little off your sitbone and the left side forward and more under that sitbone. (I routinely set my seats with the nose about 1/2 a cm to the left; more for perineum comfort than sitbones. Now I do ride with enough body lean that my weight is on the soft tissue more, but then I am not riding your ride distances.)

Next thought - do you use a 2-bolt seatpost? My routine for dialing in any new bike is to 1) use those posts and 20 go for rides carrying the seatpin and clamp wrenches. On those rides I stop anytime i feel things could be better and tweak tilt or height, (Put tape on my seatpost 1/2" up before leaving so I have a reference there, With 2-bolt post, tilt reference is easy, Loosen the back bolt, tighten the front 1/4 turn (or whatever). Donne, No go? A 1/4 turn back is exactly where I started.)

Thompson and Nitto both make excellent 2-bolt posts with a variety of setbacks and excellent clamps. Thompson even sells its clamp parts separately. I have two custom posts using Thompson clamps. Love 'em'
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Old 12-10-20, 04:43 PM
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That's an interesting saddle, but it doesn't seem to me that it really adjusts in the direction you would want for a leg imbalance. My right leg is a little shorter than my left. I don't think I have problems due to that. It looks like it's too wide in front, which really drives me crazy.
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Old 12-10-20, 05:03 PM
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If there is extra pressure on one sitbone, Selle Anatomica has some advice for that. Rotate the saddle so the nose moves toward the direction of the over-stressed sit-bone. This moves the "bone platform" for the larger bone backwards and the pressure point should be somewhat relieved. I forget the exact ailment, but rather a number of years ago I used this rotation technique to relieve pressure in the middle of a tour, and it definitely helped. Later I tried it with a B17 and it helped with that saddle as well.
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Old 12-11-20, 12:14 PM
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Thanks all for the suggestions - I have tried turning the seats to the right and left. It sorta helps but then I get chaffing on my inner leg. or the center groove is mal placed and gives those types of issues. I've been thinking about shaving off parts of the selle anatomica to resolve chaffing but......

That's why I was thinking about the bi-saddle - Believe me, I'm not anxious to spend $200-$300 for yet another saddle - but if it works... Maybe worth it. That's why I came to the forum hoping someone had used it.... Any and all suggestions read and welcome.

I did think about getting another B17, maybe soaking it down then sitting on it or otherwise making an impression.. Maybe even making another cutout for my right hand sit bone. Like the infinity saddle I guess...
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Old 12-11-20, 01:17 PM
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All I know about it is that I have a riding buddy who can't ride anything else due to perineum issues. He rode PBP on it, has a wall full of K hound medals. He's a really big guy, 6-5". Sorry, that it.

I developed a saddle sore only on the right side. Trying to fix it, I found that I tilt my upper body slightly toward that side when I ride. Partly that may because of the work I did. I'm much more muscular on the right side of my torso, Now I sight my stem against my front wheel when I ride, trying to learn what it feels like to be centered on the bike.
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Old 12-11-20, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 83cannondale View Post
...
I did think about getting another B17, maybe soaking it down then sitting on it or otherwise making an impression.. Maybe even making another cutout for my right hand sit bone. Like the infinity saddle I guess...
Which Brooks saddles have you tried?

I find that a B17 does not work for me when I use the drops. I bought a B17 years ago as that was supposed to be the perfect saddle for touring. But not for my bum. The B17 works when I am sitting more upright, but not leaning forward, I have my old B17 on an old hybrid on a trainer for indoor exercise while watching TV.

I use a Brooks Pro or a Conquest on most of my bikes, the Conquest has the same shape as the Pro, but it is sprung. Conquest on my rando bike.

We met a year and a half ago on a 200k, but our conversation at that time was mostly on friction downtube shifters, not saddles. (I had friction downtube shifter for the front, brifter for the rear.)
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Old 12-12-20, 03:30 PM
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Tried b27 and years ago the large rivot pro

[QUOTE=Tourist in MSN;21828851]Which Brooks saddles have you tried?

I find that a B17 does not work for me when I use the drops. I bought a B17 years ago as that was supposed to be the perfect saddle for touring. But not for my bum. The B17 works when I am sitting more upright, but not leaning forward, I have my old B17 on an old hybrid on a trainer for indoor exercise while watching TV.

I use a Brooks Pro or a Conquest on most of my bikes, the Conquest has the same shape as the Pro, but it is sprung. Conquest on my rando bike.

We met a year and a half ago on a 200k, but our conversation at that time was mostly on friction downtube shifters, not saddles. (I had friction downtube shifter for the front, brifter for the rear.)

.....Yes I remember riding with you. One friction shift lever for front derailleur? Red bike maybe? I recall your spring seat too I thought it seemed a pretty good idea. Did we talk about an Iceland trip maybe...?

Regarding the seat, I use an old b17 for most of my brevets. It works but could be better. I'll be riding rollers most of the winter and stay pretty planted on the seat so problems are magnified. Thought it'd be a good time to work through my cockamamie sit bone situation.

I did use a Brooks pro seat for several years in the distance past. I don't think it was ever real comfortable for me. Probably because of uneven sit bones, but I didn't know it then. I googled adjustable bike saddle or some such thing and came across the bi saddle. Seemed interesting. Maybe too good to be true. Expensive as heck...!
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Old 12-12-20, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 83cannondale View Post
...
.....Yes I remember riding with you. One friction shift lever for front derailleur? Red bike maybe? I recall your spring seat too I thought it seemed a pretty good idea. Did we talk about an Iceland trip maybe...?

Regarding the seat, I use an old b17 for most of my brevets. It works but could be better. I'll be riding rollers most of the winter and stay pretty planted on the seat so problems are magnified. Thought it'd be a good time to work through my cockamamie sit bone situation.

I did use a Brooks pro seat for several years in the distance past. I don't think it was ever real comfortable for me. Probably because of uneven sit bones, but I didn't know it then. I googled adjustable bike saddle or some such thing and came across the bi saddle. Seemed interesting. Maybe too good to be true. Expensive as heck...!
Yup, red bike, sprung saddle was a Conquest, conquest has the same shape as a Pro but with springs. I might have talked about my bike tour in Iceland. If I recall, you had an Edelux light mounted on the front fender. And you were trying to qualify for PBP.

I suspect that if you tried shimming it so one side is higher than the other, that you might not be able to get one side much higher, maybe 10 or 20 thousandths of an inch at most is my guess. So, not sure if that would even be worth trying.

But, if you try it, ... if I was trying it I would use very flexible metal, something like a beer can. And put several pieces above the saddle rail on one side and same number of pieces below the saddle rail on the other side.

Several years ago I had a 26mm stem but a 25.4mm handlebar. I do not recall how many layers of beer can aluminum I used, but it was only a few layers. I have a micrometer that could measure down to one thousandth of an inch, so it was pretty easy to measure the beer can aluminum thickness and calculate how many layers of aluminum I needed for a shim. Worked just fine.

Here is another crazy idea. You could try this indoors on rollers or on a trainer under controlled conditions to see if it works. The side you want to raise, tape a wash cloth on top of the saddle, but only on the side you want to raise. And try it for a few hours. If that helps, a more perminent solution would be to add a layer of material to one side of the inside of your bike shorts from something like a piece of Polartec. I am thinking Polartec has some thickness, is soft, and is reasonably hydrophobic.

That is all I have for ideas. Good luck.
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Old 12-13-20, 11:49 PM
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Bike fit experts tell uneven or asymmetric distribution of pressure on the saddle can be a symptom of too high saddle height. Same problem can also cause saddle sores.

Go to 6:55 min of the video to skip to the "saddle too high" discussion and then watch the remaining for the solution if your case is applicable.

Too low saddle height is better (a lot less problems) than too high and unfortunately, many cyclists tend to make the mistake of setting their saddle too high.


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Old 12-14-20, 03:38 AM
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I don't know how you can say that about saddle height, if my saddle is too low I have severe knee problems. It's much better if it's too high. Of course, most fitters have very little experience with people who ride long distance.
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Old 12-14-20, 10:16 AM
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Not a long distance rider, but it would seem to me that if you have sit bones with one lower than the other, that using a sprung saddle, with one side of the springs "tied down" a bit, with a zip tie or similar might work, or at least be worth trying, as it would tilt the saddle to one side.
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Old 12-14-20, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by freeranger View Post
Not a long distance rider, but it would seem to me that if you have sit bones with one lower than the other, that using a sprung saddle, with one side of the springs "tied down" a bit, with a zip tie or similar might work, or at least be worth trying, as it would tilt the saddle to one side.
I use a sprung saddle. I am guessing that when I sit upright on the bike that my weight depresses the springs roughly 5mm.

This is an interesting idea, but if I was going to try that, instead of using some method to keep one spring depressed, I would use a shim on the lower spring mount to raise the spring on one side.

At this link for the Flyer, looking at the image from astern, you can see the lower spring mount on each side is attached with nuts and bolts.
https://www.brooksengland.com/en_us/flyer.html

I pasted that image here:


I mention the flyer specifically because that saddle has a shape very similar to the B17 that the OP already has, thus familiar with the shape.

That bolt head is domed, thus might be a carriage bolt. Not sure if it would be simple to loosen and re-tighten or not.

There also are bolts at the top of the springs, but the bolt head is between the saddle frame and leather, not sure if a shim could be added there.

Several years ago I bought a Conquest on-line. When it arrived, it did not look right, I measured that one spring was longer than the other, the bike shop replaced that Conquest with a different saddle. From that experience, I am thinking that a shim might work best for the long term instead of some method to keep one spring partially compressed.

Photo below is the Conquest that I returned to the bike shop. You can see that it is higher on one side than the other.

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Old 12-14-20, 12:23 PM
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Sitting on the lite 209 I feel pressure on the right side while the left actually feels like it hangs off the saddle.
You may have a "tilted pelvis."

Take some time to inspect the soles of your shoes. See if have uneven wear patterns. Set up camera to take a full body selfie while nude and study the location of your "hip points."

Set up a trainer and take videos of your butt while riding. Double check your hamstring and quad flexibility.

You may get a better setup after making sure what your body's starting point is. No doubt your already sitting on the answers........
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Old 12-17-20, 08:43 PM
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It is quite common to have one leg longer than the other. Have you worked with a fitter to check leg length and possibly add shoe shims to a shorter leg? A leg that is a few mm shorter could cause you to ride with an uneven pelvis position to compensate.
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