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Rohloff on Paris Brest Paris???

Old 07-27-21, 07:47 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by randallr View Post


Yep. Oh, and the stem is now flipped so there's not such a huge spacer stack. That's the only possible downside for an old guy for the Crosshairs frame - top tube could be longer.
Thanks for posting the photo, this thread being on Rohloffs for longer brevets, it makes sense to have a photo of one of the drop bar options besides my bar end option with the Hubbub adapter.

The only thing missing is a photo of the brifter option using the Rohbox (spell?).
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Old 07-27-21, 10:15 AM
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I haven't ridden a brevet of any length with a Rohloff hub, but I had one on my tandem for a few years and did some long hot rides around New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland and Virginia. When it was hot and I was dripping with sweat, I found the twist grip shifter became increasingly difficult to use. My tandem has an upright style handlbar (north road bar) so the ergonomics of the shifter were in my favor, but it still wasn't very good. I would love to mount the Rohloff on a bike for brevets sometime, but I have not seen a drop bar shifter hack that looked promising enough to bother with.
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Old 07-29-21, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I haven't ridden a brevet of any length with a Rohloff hub, but I had one on my tandem for a few years and did some long hot rides around New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland and Virginia. When it was hot and I was dripping with sweat, I found the twist grip shifter became increasingly difficult to use. My tandem has an upright style handlbar (north road bar) so the ergonomics of the shifter were in my favor, but it still wasn't very good. I would love to mount the Rohloff on a bike for brevets sometime, but I have not seen a drop bar shifter hack that looked promising enough to bother with.
Cinq has some nifty drop bar adapters to use normal shifters

https://cinq.de/en/shifting-technology/360/shift-r-road-for-rohloff

I also recall a company having a Di2 conversion mod to use any di2 shifters
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Old 07-29-21, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
.... When it was hot and I was dripping with sweat, I found the twist grip shifter became increasingly difficult to use. ....
I think that Rohloff has had three generations of twist grips. First was a rounded triangular shape, second which is what I have was more rounded, and third has some sizeable wavy shaped bumps on it for better grip.

I added three beads of Shoe Goo on my rounded one to give me better grip. The rounded one also has a soft rubber that abrades easily, the Shoo Goo is harder material, does not abrade.

These photos are five years old, it is still working quite well.



Shoe Goo is sold in clear and black, the black is harder to find but I found some on Amazon and ordered it from there five years ago.
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Old 08-08-21, 05:14 AM
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I haven't ridden a Rohloff on PBP or other long brevets but have ridden PBP and other brevets variously on derailleur, hub and fixed gears. A Sturmey 8sp hub for some brevets and 3sp hub for others (admittedly, nothing beyond SR distances). PBP03 was on a F&S Duomatic 2 speed coaster brake hub and there was undoubtedly more drag (viscous and rolling) than the derailleur gears I used for other PBPs. https://web.archive.org/web/20170608...l/bicycle/PBP/ mentions me in passing. That extra drag didn't matter though. I was riding for fun and deliberately aiming at a slower time than in '99. I had plenty of sleep and fun and got to chat with a bunch of interesting folk. Finishing PBP usually isn't something where saving an hour on the road makes a real difference. Getting the right amount of sleep and not faffing through the controls and out on the road makes the difference.

If a Rohloff is part of your dream bike, ride a Rohloff. If you want to maximise every marginal gain, then choose something else but be aware there are disadvantages to picking the lightest/ fastest whatever (e.g. how did that bottom bracket work out for you, GR62?). There are a thousand different approaches to PBP and every rider on the start line thinks that their approach is the right one and that everybody else has got it wrong.
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Old 08-08-21, 06:14 AM
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I don't think the OP's desire for a Rohloff stems from it being part of a dream bike. I always wanted one, but the price put me off. One thing I would say about derailleurs is that the latest and greatest things might not be that good of an idea. 11 speed isn't that new, but I met a rider that was having problems with his 11sp campagnolo and the mechanics at the controls couldn't help him.

PBP has been finished by all sorts of contraptions. I remember when Sophie Matter passed me on a hill out of Fougeres riding a townie, wearing a sundress, and conducting interviews with other riders. And the ACP outlawed kickbikes after a number of people finished PBP on them. If you look up "PBP Drew Buck", you will find a lot of people's pictures of the eclectic bikes people ride on PBP, many of them intentionally making it harder on themselves.
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Old 08-08-21, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by LWaB View Post
I haven't ridden a Rohloff on PBP or other long brevets but have ridden PBP and other brevets variously on derailleur, hub and fixed gears. A Sturmey 8sp hub for some brevets and 3sp hub for others (admittedly, nothing beyond SR distances). PBP03 was on a F&S Duomatic 2 speed coaster brake hub and there was undoubtedly more drag (viscous and rolling) than the derailleur gears I used for other PBPs. https://web.archive.org/web/20170608...l/bicycle/PBP/ mentions me in passing. That extra drag didn't matter though. I was riding for fun and deliberately aiming at a slower time than in '99. I had plenty of sleep and fun and got to chat with a bunch of interesting folk. Finishing PBP usually isn't something where saving an hour on the road makes a real difference. Getting the right amount of sleep and not faffing through the controls and out on the road makes the difference.

If a Rohloff is part of your dream bike, ride a Rohloff. If you want to maximise every marginal gain, then choose something else but be aware there are disadvantages to picking the lightest/ fastest whatever (e.g. how did that bottom bracket work out for you, GR62?). There are a thousand different approaches to PBP and every rider on the start line thinks that their approach is the right one and that everybody else has got it wrong.
I am not sure why you are making that wisecrack. OP asked for opinions, I think the gearing steps on the Rohloff would not work for me at all. Of course, you are happy with a 2 speed.

The crank and BB in question weigh 1450 grams. It is a Rotor RS4X and it's use has nothing to do with weight weeniism. I would explain why I use it but why bother.

I faffed a plenty. PBP 2019 took me 75 hours and I slept 4 times for a total of something like 16-20 hours. I had 7 sit down meals and stopped at 4 Cafes, IIRC.
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Old 08-08-21, 08:18 AM
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Don’t get your knickers in a knot. Your BB is just an example that everything has a failure rate, some larger, some smaller, with different consequences. Rohloffs have a failure rate but it is pretty small. For some folk, that peace of mind is worth a little slower average speed.

I guess my point is that few people need to absolutely maximise their mechanical efficiency to finish PBP. Other aspects of their ride probably make a bigger difference, most of the time. A story - PBP03 when 2 of 3 British tandems with the same new model of Hugi tandem hub failed to finish. The other team had their hubs fail during their second 600 that year and they carried a spare freehub with them in case the hub failed again (it didn’t). No way to fix a freehub with no drive without specific spare parts and ziptieing the cassette to the spokes for another 900km doesn’t work very well on a tandem.

I agree that a Rohloff on a fast road bike won’t suit many folk, for exactly the reason you stated. Others wouldn’t find that characteristic to be an issue because they have other priorities.

I have ridden a lot of miles with Drew and a few miles with Sophie (a very talented rider). They have some interesting stories to share.

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Old 08-08-21, 09:09 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by LWaB View Post
every rider on the start line thinks that their approach is the right one and that everybody else has got it wrong.
On the start line I didn't even think my approach was the right one...
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Old 08-08-21, 09:23 AM
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Out of anyone, I have always said the bike is the least important element of success on a long brevet. I am sure the Rohloff would be fine, just not my cup of tea.

I rarely even look at fellow randonneur's equipment because the most important equipment is invisible, the six inches between one's ears.

This was a long thread with many off topic posts once the OP's question was given a thorough perspective from many different randonneurs, all valid points and merely just opinions. I do not even remember all the different discussions but IIRC, there was never a concern with the Rohloff hub failing. The main considerations were gear ratio spacing, ergonomics of the shifter, lower efficiency, and if the rear wheel pretzeled, it is probably DNF.

To be able to enjoy something like PBP, being as fit as possible and having an efficient bike certainly helps the average cyclist. I would not consider someone like Sophie to be average, she could probably ride anything and finish. A friend of mine ran out of time and it was really just an hour or two. If he just did not have Gatorskins on and if his jacket wasn't so floppy, he could have finished instead of being outside the limit. It haunts him.
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Old 08-08-21, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
A friend of mine ran out of time and it was really just an hour or two. If he just did not have Gatorskins on and if his jacket wasn't so floppy, he could have finished instead of being outside the limit. It haunts him.
it always pains me when somebody is HD, particularly if it was close. OK, optimising rolling resistance might have made the difference for him but most people have bigger problems with “Getting the right amount of sleep and not faffing through the controls and out on the road makes the difference.”
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Old 08-09-21, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by LWaB View Post
it always pains me when somebody is HD, particularly if it was close. OK, optimising rolling resistance might have made the difference for him but most people have bigger problems with “Getting the right amount of sleep and not faffing through the controls and out on the road makes the difference.”
The biggest problem is probably the large inner tube of lard most of us carry.

I hear from randonneurs and read stories of riders not getting sleep on 600k and finishing just inside the time limit or just getting a handful hours sleep on a 1200K. It is my belief that any small optimizations that can give a randonneur a few more hours sleep will greatly improve their chance of completion and increase the enjoyment. For instance, I would always take my jacket off when hot instead off unzipping and letting it flail like a parachute. Collectively, many small optimizations can give many hours. For a stronger and more experienced riders, it is irrelevant. They might only be pedaling for 50 hours total and have time to burn. Anyone with a moving time much over 70 hours is going to need to be very efficient in the controls and with any stop, if they want to sleep.
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Old 08-09-21, 12:03 PM
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Definitely could have lost some weight and trained more sensibly for 2019. I was working too hard to get a khound, which ended up being a significant part of my dnf.

I think the most important thing about equipment is that it is reliable and familiar. Virtually every bike that completed PBP in 2019 was equipped with 700c tires and a derailleur drivetrain. Bayes theorem says that virtually every PBP failure is going to involve 700c tires and a derailleur drivetrain.
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Old 08-09-21, 12:19 PM
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My training wasn't the best in 2019, I spent too much time with Doctors leading into it and only got the go ahead a couple weeks beforehand. I kept having to halt training rides to sleep. After all kinds of tests, they found that my heart stops many times per night for 3-8 seconds. Nothing they can do, so I am told. So, I just stopped and slept when I needed it on PBP and I do recognized I am lucky to have that luxury of speed. I recounted, I slept five times.

I planned to do my La Société Adrian Hands ride in 2035 but the way it is going, I better do it sooner rather than later.
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Old 08-09-21, 01:45 PM
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The best way to do Adrian Hands time is to go fast and stop at a lot of cafes on the way back from Brest.
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Old 09-09-21, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
For a very long, very hilly with a time limit ride like PBP, I'd choose the fastest equipment available to me. Multispeed hubs are not as efficient as derailleur. The difference is small, but it's there.



A 2% efficiency difference doesn't mean that the bike is 2% slower, but it will be slightly slower particularly on climbs. Depending on whose Garmin it was, there are about 12k meters of climbing, though mostly on rolling hills.
The really important consideration regarding the Rohloff efficiency is break-in, which IME takes about 1000 miles. Most people don't give it that kind of patience. Once broken-in and with a good oil change the hub is more efficient- you can see that with the pedal motion when you push the bike. A new hub will spin the pedals; one that is broken-in will not. The second issue is what condition the drive train is in when on the road. If your chain isn't clean, if your jockey wheels are dirty, the Rohloff will be more efficient. You can run a belt with a Rohloff; it will go about 3-4X longer than a chain and no maintenance required. Above about 200 watts they are more efficient but if you run a belt snubber to prevent the belt coming off the rear sprocket you can run lower belt tension (I run almost none) and the efficiency crossover point chain vs belt goes to a lower wattage crossover point in favor of the belt.

Originally Posted by rhm View Post
When it was hot and I was dripping with sweat, I found the twist grip shifter became increasingly difficult to use. My tandem has an upright style handlbar (north road bar) so the ergonomics of the shifter were in my favor, but it still wasn't very good. I would love to mount the Rohloff on a bike for brevets sometime, but I have not seen a drop bar shifter hack that looked promising enough to bother with.
I've experienced that as well; but when I'm on longer rides I make sure to wear cycling gloves and that seems to take care of that. Even on rides with 14 hours in the saddle I've not had a problem. I found that Castille gloves, if used over several days, will start to stink pretty bad where the Mavic and Gyro do not...

Originally Posted by LWaB View Post
Rohloffs have a failure rate but it is pretty small. For some folk, that peace of mind is worth a little slower average speed.

I guess my point is that few people need to absolutely maximise their mechanical efficiency to finish PBP. Other aspects of their ride probably make a bigger difference, most of the time. A story - PBP03 when 2 of 3 British tandems with the same new model of Hugi tandem hub failed to finish. The other team had their hubs fail during their second 600 that year and they carried a spare freehub with them in case the hub failed again (it didn’t). No way to fix a freehub with no drive without specific spare parts and ziptieing the cassette to the spokes for another 900km doesn’t work very well on a tandem.

I agree that a Rohloff on a fast road bike won’t suit many folk, for exactly the reason you stated. Others wouldn’t find that characteristic to be an issue because they have other priorities.
Most of my long distance riding is in the middle of nowhere.


I encounter things that break parts; for example the Tour Divide is known to shake things to bits, eat chains and cassettes, break derailleurs (mud being the classic means) and generally wear you and your bike down. Its nice not having to worry about the drivetrain. Because my hub is broken-in, because I run a belt, the weight is the same as with a derailleur and unless the derailleur system is absolutely clean the Rohloff works out better- I like to get on the bike and just ride day after day. I know of a couple of people who had failures with the hub. In both cases the hubs lacked oil within; they were not careful to make sure the oil port was properly sealed. This photo isn't the best example since this is my expedition bike instead of my road bike but both use Rohloffs. My road bike still uses a chain but that's going to be changed to a belt this winter.
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Old 09-09-21, 01:49 PM
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Did you ride Tour Divide?

I think that the rohloffs that didn't have oil aren't necessarily a neutral point against them for long distance. Randonneurs are probably the worst riders I know for maintenance given how much they ride. The only people I have ever heard of that had their Di2 batteries die on a ride were Randonneurs, for example. OTOH, I can't tell you how many randonneurs I know that have had shift cables break. I even started carrying a cable with me because I knew so many people.
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Old 09-09-21, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Did you ride Tour Divide?

I think that the rohloffs that didn't have oil aren't necessarily a neutral point against them for long distance. Randonneurs are probably the worst riders I know for maintenance given how much they ride. The only people I have ever heard of that had their Di2 batteries die on a ride were Randonneurs, for example. OTOH, I can't tell you how many randonneurs I know that have had shift cables break. I even started carrying a cable with me because I knew so many people.
This might be me but it sounds like the people you describe aren't used to doing their own maintenance. With the Rohloff you basically replace the oil in the hub once a year.

I started riding the Divide in 2016. Its spectacular and so much more satisfying than road races, although about 70% of it is actually gravel. Some of it is 2-track, a little single track and about 15% is pavement. Its also a bit harder since in the race you're unsupported and looking at over 2700 miles (if Banff is the northern terminus) to complete. If you ever think about doing it or part of it, don't hesitate. The only problem is it gets in your blood; you might not want to see a bicycle again by the time you complete, but two weeks later you'll be Jones'n...
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Old 09-12-21, 10:19 AM
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I have had my Co-Motion Pangea Rohloff going on 8 years now. It is defiantly not the lightest Rohloff equipped bicycle with a gates belt. I have read all the reasons lame as they are about weight and more friction and how it don't shift right. I hear it is also no good because that massive weight in the rear, will not play well on a mountain bike while trying to jump off of a cliff. All I know is I like it and it repeatedly does what I expect it to do. I like dependability with no mess. I didn't purchase a racing bike. I purchased a bike to get me there, were ever that may be.

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Old 09-12-21, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick View Post
I didn't purchase a racing bike. I purchased a bike to get me there, were ever that may be.
I'm curious what the longest distance you have ridden that that bike in a single day? Have you ridden a 1200km grand brevet on that bike?
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Old 09-12-21, 04:48 PM
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I'm curious what the longest distance you have ridden that that bike in a single day? Have you ridden a 1200km grand brevet on that bike?
What do you really want.
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Old 09-12-21, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick View Post
What do you really want.
You to realize the context of the discussion? This isn't about touring.
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Old 09-12-21, 07:50 PM
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You to realize the context of the discussion? This isn't about touring.
I posted about the Rohloff hub and my personal experiences much like many others do.
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Old 09-12-21, 09:18 PM
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That's fine, I wanted to put your experience in context. If you are touring with it, which is what it looks like, it's a great setup. If you aren't riding 750 miles in less than 90 hours, which is the context of this thread, maybe your experience isn't as useful. Because that is a lot like a race and a racing bike is probably more appropriate than a touring bike.
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Old 09-13-21, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
That's fine, I wanted to put your experience in context. If you are touring with it, which is what it looks like, it's a great setup. If you aren't riding 750 miles in less than 90 hours, which is the context of this thread, maybe your experience isn't as useful. Because that is a lot like a race and a racing bike is probably more appropriate than a touring bike.
FWIW my comments have been in the context of racing. But usually its longer distances over more varied surfaces that you see randenneuring. IMO what you're mostly seeing in a lot of the longer races and ultras is seeing how well a person can do without sleep. The winner of the Colorado Trail Race set a new record this year and he really didn't sleep much at all.
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