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Tire recommandation for a 150-200km challenge

Old 09-07-21, 03:11 AM
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Tire recommendation for a 150-200km challenge

Hello,

I'm looking for a tire for a 150 to 200km challenge. I'm training 3 times per week on shorter distances (50-100km) aswell. The bike is a TREK Domane AL2 which came equipped with 25mm tires when I bought it (2021 model) and is now offered with 28mm as standard (for 2022). Stock tires are ok but I discovered cuts in the rear tire so it may need a replacement.

Most important for me (in this order) is
- ride comfort and feel
- versatility: smooth/rough roads, dry/wet, summer/winter riding -even if I will mostly ride in the dry, on average roads and about 5 to 20C temperatures (=40-70F)-
- durability
- rolling resistance
- weight

Do you have any suggestion? Do you think it's worth switching for 28mm tires (rather than 25mm) and latex tubes?

Many thanks,
Eric
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Old 09-07-21, 03:47 AM
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Everybody seems to like continental GP5000. If your bike will take a 28mm tire, there really isn't a penalty over a 25 and there are some marginal benefits.

But I don't see why you would ride anything different than you would on any other ride for something like a 200k. Longer rides than that generally involve some amount of riding in the dark, and larger tires have a benefit for that because they are a little bit more robust. Granted, 28mm and 25mm are very close to the same size. But I would expect to ride 150km-200km in daylight.
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Old 09-07-21, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Everybody seems to like continental GP5000. If your bike will take a 28mm tire, there really isn't a penalty over a 25 and there are some marginal benefits.

But I don't see why you would ride anything different than you would on any other ride for something like a 200k. Longer rides than that generally involve some amount of riding in the dark, and larger tires have a benefit for that because they are a little bit more robust. Granted, 28mm and 25mm are very close to the same size. But I would expect to ride 150km-200km in daylight.
The only clear downside about riding 28mm tires (with the added weight) is not having the possibility to use fenders. These are only compatible with < or = 25mm tires on my bike based on Trek's website.

I will ride 1/4 to 1/3 of the time in the dark in the next few months. I train after work and it's getting dark quite early. I'm not talking about the 150-200km challenge here, just for training.

I'll take a look at the Conti 5000 and see the other options available but any feebcack is welcome
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Old 09-07-21, 07:26 AM
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GP5k is a safe choice, but there are lots of other good tires. Since I go through a lot of tires, I watch for good deals and stock up, or maybe throw in a set of tires to get free shipping.

Regarding width, I prefer 25mm tires most of the time, but a lot of people seem to like wider tires, so maybe you should get the 28's and see if you like them better. If I only had one bike, it would have fenders, so if I had your bike, I would run 25's.
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Old 09-07-21, 08:45 AM
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I've been using the Conti 5000s. I've got tubeless 28 mm on my distance bike, tubed 32 mm on my commuter. The tires on the commuter bike are pretty torn up, which is not surprising considering the streets I commute on. By some miracle, I haven't had a single puncture on the distance bike (knock wood). Anyhow, they've been good tires.

For day-to-day riding I would not bother with latex tubes, but I might use them for an event. Or those weird thermoplastic innertubes, perhaps.
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Old 09-07-21, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
GP5k is a safe choice, but there are lots of other good tires. Since I go through a lot of tires, I watch for good deals and stock up, or maybe throw in a set of tires to get free shipping.

Regarding width, I prefer 25mm tires most of the time, but a lot of people seem to like wider tires, so maybe you should get the 28's and see if you like them better. If I only had one bike, it would have fenders, so if I had your bike, I would run 25's.
Thanks, I forgot to mention I have 2 bikes. Generally I use an other bike which is equipped with disc brakes when it rains and the Trek (rim brakes) when the weather is fine. I live in Belgium so the weather can change very quickly but it doesn't really matter I would rarely start my ride with the Trek + fenders.

Concerning speed and rolling resistance are the 25 and 28 equivalent?
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Old 09-07-21, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by adamrice View Post
I've been using the Conti 5000s. I've got tubeless 28 mm on my distance bike, tubed 32 mm on my commuter. The tires on the commuter bike are pretty torn up, which is not surprising considering the streets I commute on. By some miracle, I haven't had a single puncture on the distance bike (knock wood). Anyhow, they've been good tires.

For day-to-day riding I would not bother with latex tubes, but I might use them for an event. Or those weird thermoplastic innertubes, perhaps.
For what reason do you use 28mm GP5000 rather than 25 for example?

You don't use latex tubes because of the need of re-inflating them often compared with butyl or what would be the problem of latex tubes for everyday riding?
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Old 09-07-21, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Pulse_ View Post
For what reason do you use 28mm GP5000 rather than 25 for example?
Comfort. I might go bigger in the future. There's a noticeable difference between 32s and 28s.

Originally Posted by Pulse_ View Post
You don't use latex tubes because of the need of re-inflating them often compared with butyl or what would be the problem of latex tubes for everyday riding?
Right. Latex tubes are more expensive and need to be reinflated more often.
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Old 09-07-21, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Pulse_ View Post
Thanks, I forgot to mention I have 2 bikes. Generally I use an other bike which is equipped with disc brakes when it rains and the Trek (rim brakes) when the weather is fine. I live in Belgium so the weather can change very quickly but it doesn't really matter I would rarely start my ride with the Trek + fenders.

Concerning speed and rolling resistance are the 25 and 28 equivalent?
I think the consensus view is that there's no significant difference in rolling resistance or speed between 25 and 28 with the same quality tire. The pro teams still run mostly 25's so I assume there's some benefit to the narrower tire. Acceleration maybe? I don't know. All the teams have disk brakes, so there's no reason for them not to run wider tires if there was no downside.

For me it comes down to feel. Most of my training rides are 50-100k on pretty good suburban roads and include some hard efforts, so I prefer the feel of narrower tires for that kind of riding. At 150-200k I might run a wider tire or I might not. A solo 150k would almost certainly be on 25's, but I might go much wider on a casual club 200k. There's no one right answer all the time. I say try the 28's. You can always go back to 25's if you like them better. Tires don't last forever so you can try a few different ones out. FWIW I've never seen any reason to try latex tubes.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I think the consensus view is that there's no significant difference in rolling resistance or speed between 25 and 28 with the same quality tire. The pro teams still run mostly 25's so I assume there's some benefit to the narrower tire. Acceleration maybe? I don't know. All the teams have disk brakes, so there's no reason for them not to run wider tires if there was no downside.

For me it comes down to feel. Most of my training rides are 50-100k on pretty good suburban roads and include some hard efforts, so I prefer the feel of narrower tires for that kind of riding. At 150-200k I might run a wider tire or I might not. A solo 150k would almost certainly be on 25's, but I might go much wider on a casual club 200k. There's no one right answer all the time. I say try the 28's. You can always go back to 25's if you like them better. Tires don't last forever so you can try a few different ones out. FWIW I've never seen any reason to try latex tubes.
Yep, trial and error is the best way to learn . I like a snappy feeling bike but not twitchy/ insecure. Right now I have Bontrager R1 Hard case Lite mounted on the bike in 25mm. It's my first road bike so I don't have any reference to compare them with. Maybe I should change one parameter at a time i.e. change the brand/model and keep my tires in the same sizing?

I just mesured the outer width of my wheels which is 23mm. Is there a correlation between rim width and tires width to ensure a proper "fit"? What would be the ideal tire size VS rim size?
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Old 09-07-21, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Pulse_ View Post
I just mesured the outer width of my wheels which is 23mm. Is there a correlation between rim width and tires width to ensure a proper "fit"? What would be the ideal tire size VS rim size?
Rim manufacturers go by the internal rim width, and each manufacturer will state a range of compatible tire widths. There's not necessarily an optimum width except with aero wheels, which are often designed for best aerodynamics at a specific tire width.
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Old 09-07-21, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Pulse_ View Post
Right now I have Bontrager R1 Hard case Lite mounted on the bike in 25mm. It's my first road bike so I don't have any reference to compare them with. Maybe I should change one parameter at a time i.e. change the brand/model and keep my tires in the same sizing?
It's not a bad idea, but I'd just get a nice set of tires in whichever size you think you will like better. 25's will feel a little more lively, 28's a little more cushy, but the sizes are pretty close. I definitely would not get another set of the Bontragers in 28.

Originally Posted by Pulse_ View Post
I just mesured the outer width of my wheels which is 23mm. Is there a correlation between rim width and tires width to ensure a proper "fit"? What would be the ideal tire size VS rim size?
ETRTO publishes a table of acceptable rim and tire width combinations, but Jan says "rim width doesn't really matter". In either case, your 17mm rims are fine for both 25 & 28mm tires.
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Old 09-07-21, 04:17 PM
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If the Bontrager R1 Hard case Lite is the tire I'm thinking of, you are really going to like a Conti 5k. Not only are the Bontragers a little slow rolling, but one of them let loose at the bead when it was still fairly new. Long ride too, 325km.
The other annoying thing about that tire was that the 28mm was exactly the same size as a 25mm
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Old 09-07-21, 04:36 PM
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For a double metric century or less just ride what you normally ride. At about 200km and greater comfort beats weight savings all day, so wider tires makes sense as does fenders if it all fits, otherwise don’t worry about it. I did a 300km at the end of 2019 on some older 25mm GP4000ii I had and they held up fine except for eating a nail at about the 180km mark but I don’t think any tire would have stopped that.
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Old 09-07-21, 10:04 PM
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Panaracer GravelKing is my tyre of choice, but yeah GP5000 is also a very popular choice and I have ridden with people using that tyre and not getting any punctures during a 1000k - though at the same time people do get punctures with them so I guess it comes down road condition and luck.
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Old 09-08-21, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
It's not a bad idea, but I'd just get a nice set of tires in whichever size you think you will like better. 25's will feel a little more lively, 28's a little more cushy, but the sizes are pretty close. I definitely would not get another set of the Bontragers in 28.

ETRTO publishes a table of acceptable rim and tire width combinations, but Jan says "rim width doesn't really matter". In either case, your 17mm rims are fine for both 25 & 28mm tires.
Sure, I didn't plan to buy Bontrager tires again. I mean they are fine for me (no reference as I said) but the feedbacks aren't amazing and the price difference with very good tires isn't crazy either. I know tires can make a huge improvement, I raced radio-controlled cars (don't laugh ) and tires were the main factor to play with.

I discovered a rim/tire chart and concluded just that 28mm are perfectly fine on a 17mm rim. I just want to avoid the "light bubble" effect with a tire that's so big it "rolls" on itself and creates too much drag. But we are talking 3mm here, the difference will be minimal with the 25mm tires.

Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
If the Bontrager R1 Hard case Lite is the tire I'm thinking of, you are really going to like a Conti 5k. Not only are the Bontragers a little slow rolling, but one of them let loose at the bead when it was still fairly new. Long ride too, 325km.
The other annoying thing about that tire was that the 28mm was exactly the same size as a 25mm
Thanks for your feedback on the R1. Yep, I read similar reviews too this tire isn't exceptionnal. The rear one has cuts in it now so it's a good reason to make a change (even if I managed to "repair" it with vulcanized glue). It's funny if the sizes are the same considering Trek says on their website the 28mm won't fit with fenders but the 25mm will..

Originally Posted by billridesbikes View Post
For a double metric century or less just ride what you normally ride. At about 200km and greater comfort beats weight savings all day, so wider tires makes sense as does fenders if it all fits, otherwise don’t worry about it. I did a 300km at the end of 2019 on some older 25mm GP4000ii I had and they held up fine except for eating a nail at about the 180km mark but I don’t think any tire would have stopped that.
It's good to know there is no difference to make between a "normal" tire and an "endurance" tire. I think comfort is key too. When I want to stop riding it's never because I'm tired but because I feel tensions in my body here and there. You mostly loose time when you stop (like pit stops in formula 1 )

Do you guys run tubeless tires or keep your tubes? In MTB and gravel I see the benefits of going tubeless but I'm not quite sure for the road. Have you tried a combination of a thinner tire in the front and wider in the rear? Let's say 25/28mm? On motorcycles and many vehicules front tires aren't as large as the rear ones but I don't know if this rule makes sense on a road bike.

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Old 09-08-21, 05:11 AM
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Some people tell me that a lot of long distance riders run tubeless because flats are no fun in the middle of the night. I don't think flats are fun at any time. I'm a bit reluctant to run tubeless on smaller tires. I'm set up to go tubeless on my road bike with 32mm tires, but I haven't done it yet.
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Old 09-08-21, 06:27 AM
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A lot has been written on road tubes vs. tubeless. If I were just starting out and only had one road bike I would probably go tubeless, but at this point in my life it's not worth the effort and expense to switch over. Most of the randonneurs I know run tubes, but I see more tubeless setups every year.

I don't know anyone who intentionally uses different tire widths on a road bike. I guess there's no reason not to if you had different clearance front vs. rear or some other reason it made sense. I carry a lightweight 23mm tire as a spare sometimes, but that's different.
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Old 09-08-21, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Pulse_ View Post
I'm not talking about the 150-200km challenge here, just for training.
I'm confused. Is this whole thread about what tires you should use to train for the event, or what you'll be riding on the day?

For training, it doesn't really matter. Just get your miles in.

I think most people are responding to your title, which implies what you'd be riding on the day of.

Originally Posted by Pulse_ View Post
Have you tried a combination of a thinner tire in the front and wider in the rear? Let's say 25/28mm? On motorcycles and many vehicules front tires aren't as large as the rear ones but I don't know if this rule makes sense on a road bike.
I actually did this on my first brevet bike. Not for performance reasons, but the frame didn't have much tire clearance and the front wheel had a hop, so a 28mm rubbed and squeaked. I fixed it before too long.
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Old 09-08-21, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I'm confused. Is this whole thread about what tires you should use to train for the event, or what you'll be riding on the day?

For training, it doesn't really matter. Just get your miles in.

I think most people are responding to your title, which implies what you'd be riding on the day of.



I actually did this on my first brevet bike. Not for performance reasons, but the frame didn't have much tire clearance and the front wheel had a hop, so a 28mm rubbed and squeaked. I fixed it before too long.
I will ride the same tires for training and during the challenge. I just ordered a pair of GP5000 in 25mm width based on your feedbacks, with vredestein superlite latex tubes 🙂. Tires have a tan wall which should match my dark blue frame nicely. I went for the 25mm for a few reason: I like a snappy feeling bike, I like to change one parameter at a time (my previous tires were 25mm also), the possibility to use fenders remains a bonus, and this model is know to be wider than what's written on the box (almost 27mm in reality) I will let you know how this setup feels VS my average tires and butyl tubes. Many thanks to all for your help!
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Old 09-10-21, 01:32 AM
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Just a little feedback concerning weight savings. Setup with GP5000 + latex tubes will be exactly 400g lighter (in total) than the stock one, for the same tire width (25mm).
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Old 09-10-21, 06:58 AM
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how much of that was the tubes, any idea?
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Old 09-10-21, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
how much of that was the tubes, any idea?
150g
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Old 09-13-21, 01:25 AM
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Just a quick question: do you guys use tubeless tape to prepare the rim before installing latex tubes? is there anything special to do around the valve hole to avoid damaging the latex tube?
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Old 09-13-21, 02:20 AM
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The big problems I had with Vredstein latex tubes was either getting pinched during install or afterwards, so you ride 1500km and bang it goes, without anything external puncturing it.

GP5000s are great tires, though, even tubed they were ridicilously reliable.
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