Chris_W

I only want to ride PBP to experience the atmosphere along the route. So, is there any point in going through the hassle of officially registering for the event? I'm thinking it will be a lot nicer just to ride the route at the same time and not deal with doing qualifying events, registering, messing around at the start, queueing at controls, etc. etc.

I'm used to doing self-supported ultra-distance races (e.g., 3 x Transcontinental Race veteran), and I just did a hilly 1050 km event in 78 hours a couple of weeks ago (self-supported, so it doesn't help with PBP qualifying; I've never actually done an official brevet). I'm quite happy to sleep in my bivvy bag in the woods and buy food and drink at grocery stores and bakeries along the way.

The PBP roads aren't closed to regular traffic, so no-one can question my legal right to be there, but what about the moral right?

What do you think the reaction of other riders will be? I speak fluent French and native English, so I can explain my situation to most people who might ask.

I live in SW Switzerland and there are direct trains to Paris. So I'd do it properly by starting/finishing in the center of Paris and then I'd join/leave the PBP route 20-50 km from the official start. If any controls involve unnecessary detours I'd just skip those parts entirely, the other controls I'd just ride straight past without stopping. I'm sure my route would still be well over 1200 km.

I'm used to riding solo, so I wouldn't be looking to hook up with a group for any more than brief stretches and it wouldn't bother me to lose a group when they all stop at a control and I don't.

I can't see any reason not to do it this way. I can see LOTS of negative consequences of trying to do it officially and very few positive consequences for me. I'd even have the freedom to leave my aerobars on my bike to use when riding solo - what luxury!

I wouldn't be racing, just doing it for the challenge and to experience the atmosphere. I should be able to average 350 km per 24 hours on that type of terrain.

unterhausen

Rumor has it that they are going to do bike checks on the course. So fitting in would be important. Not having a number plate might get you unwanted attention. Like you say, the roads are open, but that might not stop a course marshal on a motorcycle from power-tripping for more time than you want to spend arguing in French. I would be curious if you have to explain yourself for the aerobars. They are legal for official riders as long as they don't extend past your brake levers. You have to have reflective gear. They started including their reflective gear in the entry, so everyone has the same reflective vest. If your lights aren't up to their standards they may harass you for that. Food might be an issue.

There are actually companies that have group rides on the course. So you wouldn't be alone. But from what I've seen, they ride in groups.

samkl 

I wouldn't have a problem with it and I doubt many people would notice. But why not actually participate? You won't get the full experience if you're just observing and riding along when convenient. Doing this difficult thing with thousands of people from across the world, all of whom qualified, and experiencing the controls and the hospitality of the locals--those are big parts of what makes PBP special. You'll hear the townspeople cheering, but you won't feel it, because you're not actually doing the ride.

The downsides you mention (lining up at controls and at the start) aren't a big deal. Much less of a hassle than riding 1200km in 90 hours or less. And if you're regularly doing long self-supported brevet type rides, then qualifying shouldn't be such a pain either.

Chris_W

I find the mini-aerobars that don't extend beyond the brake levers to be pretty pointless. I use aerobars for comfort, and the mini models offer minimal comfort IME. I agree that full aerobars would make me stick out in a crowd, but I expect they'll only be doing bike checks at the controls, not road-side stops. Anyway, that's something to be decided later.

This is due to French laws about cycling at night. The laws are not normally enforced except for during organized events (but the rules haven't been invented by the events, which many people assume). I'd be certain to comply with the French law regarding reflectives at night despite not having the official vest.

I'd be using German dynamo lights, probably similar to half the field, plus some backup battery-powered models. Obviously, no flashing lights for group riding.

I live about 40 km from the French border, so I regularly do long rides there in the Jura and the Alps. All that's needed is a little planning to know which towns have grocery stores, their location and opening hours, plus some extra space in the bags and extra bottles to get through the nights.

Chris_W

I must be a loaner, but eating and sleeping with everyone else doesn't really interest me. For me it's about the ride experience, not really the camaraderie. That's why I've previously been happy doing 4000 km rides solo and self-supported.

Regarding the townspeople cheering, I imagine that they're doing that because people are riding 1200 km through their region in 4 days; they're not cheering for people because they did such a good job with stopping and queueing at the controls. I'll certainly feel and deserve the support as much as anyone else. I'll miss the interactions with the volunteers, but that doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

That's a big part of the hassle that I'm trying to avoid. Switzerland doesn't have many events. Plus, it's too late this year to find a pre-qualifying event anywhere nearby. I might tolerate it if I could skip straight to doing one 600 km ride without needing to also do the 3 shorter distances next year and an extra event this year.

unterhausen

You attributed a quote to me that I didn't write.
From what I hear, they are increasing the field enough that you don't have to do any prequalifying this year. It's just to get a better starting time. Depending on how fast you are, you might want to start on Monday. 350km a day actually would put you behind the field, which usually gets to Loudeac, 440km, in the first 24 hours. A fairly large cohort gets back to Loudeac from Brest in 24 hours.

I think you might want to ride it some other time than the actual event. I think before would be better, because everybody gets sick of us. Tbh, the food at the controls might not be a problem, because you pay for it. OTOH, France is shut down at the time of the ride so there may be places open for the ride that aren't open at any other time.

pdlamb

I don't get it. You want to ride the same 1200 km route at the same time 5,000 other people are riding it because you don't want to eat and sleep with everyone else??

clasher

Some of my favourite parts of the event were the controls, the festival-like feeling at the start and finish, talking to random riders in the cafeterias. I framed the medal and control card so I have a nice memento. Most people riding aren't racing and doing it to experience the atmosphere but they still pay. Personally I'd never ride an event without paying the fee. The line-up for getting control cards stamped is pretty quick moving, I don't remember waiting very long for any of them. Toilet lineups can be long, but you're probably familiar how to find the old-school public toilets in the small towns, I used a few and they were mostly empty. Doing the full event doesn't preclude you from shopping at grocery stores or sleeping outside, I did both things during the event and wasn't the only cyclist wandering around Carrefour...

The Randonneurs in Provence have a hell week you can get all the qualifying rides in a week, might be other events like that in Europe like that.

unterhausen

The local people and volunteers are the best part. Maybe not some of the riders, but most of them

downtube42

Rumor has it the aero bar length limit will be lifted in 2023.

Qualify, register, pay, and participate. Otherwise you're adding the burden to the towns and roads above and beyond what the organizers have negotiated for.

znomit

If nobody registers it doesn't happen. So register. Or do it the week before. Definitely don't buy the last pastry in the bakery either.

ROT_01

Interactions with other riders and volunteers/townspeople at controls and along the route of PBP is part of the appeal. If that stuff doesn't appeal to you and you even seem kind of antagonistic to it, then go do another ride by yourself somewhere else. The route of PBP isn't even the most scenic part of France, or Normandy and Brittany for that matter. After 10pm there are no stores open along the route until after sunrise the next morning. All the people and all the riders are there for the event. In 2019 there were over 5,000 riders out of 6,000 slots. For 2023 they're upping it to near 7,500 or even 8,000. So if you don't like brevets and lots of people you won't have a good time.

unterhausen

I forget if I mentioned this before, but riding with an unregistered rider is against the rules for registered riders. So nobody can predict if this will cause problems for OP.

downtube42

That reminds me, on my first 600k there was a well known serial bandit rider on Illinois brevets, who would intentionally ride with people to cause trouble. He rode with me for a while, and was super chatty. The RBA saw that, and warned me of what was going on. I guess he even tried convincing people to let him sleep on the floor in their hotel room.

Coincidentally or not, my brevet card disappeared at the penultimate control - the last place I saw that guy.

Chris_W

I apologize. It's now corrected.

Or I could just choose my starting time with complete freedom, which is much more appealing.

350 km was just a rough average estimate. I actually want to also use the event to achieve another goal of riding 500 km in 24 hours, my best before has been 470 km (riding solo), but that wouldn't necessarily be on Day 1. In the self-supported races that I've done, I've taken it easier than others the first couple of days and not pushed myself until later in the event.

I've already ridden around Brittany on a tandem tour with my wife and I've ridden Paris-St Malo in one stint to catch a ferry, so the route won't be that novel for me and is not my focus; it's the roadside atmosphere that will make it special and that won't be there at any other time.

As I said, I'm totally used to riding in France, at all times of year. A few bakeries and small restaurants might be closed for the summer break, but most of the resupply places I normally use (large grocery stores, McDonald's, etc.) don't close and keep their regular hours. In fact, France is often a lot easier than my home country of Switzerland, which has far more limited opening hours. I have absolutely ZERO concerns about finding food outside of the controls, I've ridden self-supported in most corners of Europe and managed to survive fine.

Chris_W

Did you read the very first sentence of my original post:

"I only want to ride PBP to experience the atmosphere along the route."

Seeing the towns celebrating the passage of the event and riding on the roads at the same time as thousands of other cyclists are the big draws for me.

Chris_W

I'd be quite happy to pay. That's the one part of the administration that I don't mind, especially as I'd be benefiting from some of the services in terms of marshaling, etc. It's just everything else during the ride that would annoy me, plus the hassle of qualification and, maybe, pre-qualification rides. Unfortunately, they don't accept payments without registration, however ...

Thanks for that suggestion. If I do decide to officially register for PBP (although maybe still skip the start, controls, etc.) then this would definitely suit me best. I've got some experience of those parts of Provence, and it's mostly been idyllic riding there (quiet, smooth roads and interesting terrain). If the weather's decent then it could be called Heaven Week, not Hell Week.

Chris_W

So, if I do the Hell Week in Provence, pay and register for PBP, go to the start to get my number, etc., then I can start whenever I want (avoiding the official start line); I can then ignore all the controls and the finish line and just ride straight back to Paris. I can't see that anybody would have a problem with that, correct? Even if somebody decides to disqualify me halfway through for not stopping at the controls and having an empty brevet card, they still can't stop me from riding on the open roads, so that will make no difference to me.

I don't collect medals or need to see my name in a list of finishers; I only collect experiences and memories, and I'll be equally as proud of a self-supported route completion (including doing it in the traditional way by starting and finishing in central Paris) as I would an official finish time. Plus, I'll be making it easier for other riders by not clogging up the controls despite taking a start place.

Chris_W

This is a very important point. I just read through the rules on the PBP website. It seems that anyone drafting someone not in the race could receive a 1 hour time penalty.

I expect this is more to prevent the fast guys breaking away from the front group and then having a buddy up the road waiting to give them a draft. I expect that this rule will not be applied to anyone who isn't going for a fast time since there will always be wheels of registered riders that they could follow if they wished, so I wouldn't be giving anyone an unfair advantage. However, it would be better not to test that theory.

unterhausen

They don't disqualify people on the road. I had bad knee trouble in 2019 and was way behind where I should have been and was there when they closed a couple of controls. They were running around seeing if anyone needed their control cards signed. Obviously anyone that needed their card signed was hors délai.
I don't know why you wouldn't do the whole ride the way everyone else does though, the bureaucracy just isn't that bad and the controls are only every 100km. And the food is good (in the context of riding long distance).

atwl77

I would be glad if the rumour turned out to be true. I don't really like my current aerobar, but force myself to train and get used to it out of necessity. I'll gladly swap back out to normal lengths if the rule is abolished.

Besides, the rule doesn't make sense for anything other than bikes with drop bars and bullhorns anyway.

unterhausen

the problem with aerobars in groups of 8000 is people not being able to use their brakes out of fatigue or lack of practice. I don't see how shorter ones really help that problem. Hopefully people are smart enough not to draft while using them. Although my impression from 2019 is that there are a lot of people that participate that aren't really very good riders, just strong

atwl77

Yeah, stay off the aerobars while drafting - even in ordinary group/club rides that's either an explicit or unspoken rule.

Chris_W

The limit on aerobar length has nothing to do with how safe they are to use, it's all about how safe they are perceived to be in a crash. It's believed that full-length aerobars could spear someone, but if they don't extend beyond the brake levers then this is not possible. They have adopted the same rules as triathlons where drafting is allowed. Whether this is a concern in reality as well as in theory is a separate question, and this probably explains why the organizers might get rid of the length restriction; afterall, full-length aerobars give more stability and so are safer to use than the uncomfortable and less stable mini versions.

ThermionicScott 

That would be a welcome relief. My 2022 brevet season was a giant cluster**** -- didn't get more than a 300k in.