araya randonneur
 

Hi all,
I've just posted a similiar question in the frame builders forum regarding tubing . But thought I'd pick some brains here too.
I'm thinking of buying an Araya Randonneur. These are available in japan.
THis year's model has tange infinity tubing while the new model which comes out in january has kaisei 022 tubing. I don't really know much about the type of tubing or how much it effects the ride.
Both look identical in design although the new model is stated to be a bit lighter. There is also an even lighter model built with 022 at around 10kg which looks a bit more sportier.
Does anyone know the difference between the two tubing types?
Does anyone actually own an araya randonneur?
Thanks
Kohey

Sorry , didn't formally introduce myself on this forum. I'm new to long distance cycling.
But the whole randonneur lifestyle is very appealing to me. Hoping to get start of gently with some nice scenic cycling outside of tokyo which is where I am based.
Have spent a fair amount of time deliberating over what would be the right bike and sizing information etc..but I'm now getting restless and want to just get on the road.
I'm sure there are plenty of randonneur clubs in tokyo..
Anyway, araya. That's the one i'm going for I think. Budget suits me just about right.
cheers
kohey

I don't know if there are a lot of Randonneuring clubs in Japan but I do know there are at least a few! :) Regarding the different materials, both are chrome moly frames and both are seamed tubes. The Kaisei 022 is actually 4130 and has been around since WWII. They used to make airplanes out of the stuff and has been used to make bicycles for years. It is cheap to make and will make a bomb proof. if heavy, frame. The Tange Infinity has been around since the 80 and is probably a little lighter than the Kaisei. I doubt that you could tell the difference in the ride between the two frames. The factory may have changed materials because one is now cheaper than the other or they wanted a slightly lighter frame, but there isn't a huge difference in performance.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.



The following link although in japanese, outlines the spec of the two bikes that i'm thinking about.

any comments on the specs?.

http://wiki.livedoor.jp/araya_kk/d/A...DA%A5%C3%A5%AF



This link has both the older and latest model of Araya's randonneur. Again, in japanese.

http://www.ishizuka-cycle.com/araya-...-cycle.com.htm

the bottom of the page has close-up(ish) details of the old model randonneur.

Little changes here and there. For example the latest model uses a nitto aluminum handlebar stem while the older has it's own TIG chromoly stem. I'm sure it doesn't make much difference to the riding experience..or does it? New model dispenses with the dynamo lamp and brake wire runs on top of frame, older one brake wire runs inside the frame. Old model with infinity tube weighs all in at 13.2kg. Newer model with 022 tube 11.9kg. the sportif model is at 10.8kg.
As I'm inexperienced in long distance cycling. I"m not sure if the variation of around 1 kilo really makes a hugh difference when loaded up.

cheers

The bikes are pretty much 1980's-technology. There is nothing wrong with the old tech stuff, it's tried and true. They are fairly heavy. As a comparison, my rando bike weights 12.2kg fully loaded. A seven kilo difference (assuming we're carrying the same stuff) isn't going to make a huge difference in the short haul but over 1200k it's going to require more effort to go the same speed on the heavier bike. The difference in weight between the models you are talking about is pretty minimal and probably won't be too big of a deal on a long brevet. They are sporting a mixture of Sora/105 level components. That will probably work fine, if I were buying it, I'd prefer ultegra. I'd also stear clear of their dynamo/light options and get a Schmidt or Shimano dyno hub with a modern light if you want to go that way. Modern lights are so superior to those old lights that it isn't even funny. If I had to choose, I'd go for the newer model and throw a Schmidt hub and Edelux light on there. One thing to remember when picking a randoneuring bike is that the more space you have to carry "stuff", the more "stuff" you will carry and the heavier your bike will be! That's a physical constant! ;)

From physical appearance they look like necely outfitted bicycles. If you can test ride them, fit and comfort are they key. It looks to be a well stocked store with a decent selection of beautiful bikes. A few ounces here or there, even a pound will matter less if the bike fits well.

Rob

Kaisei 022 is double butted 4130. The main tubes have a wall thickness of .9/.6/.9 which was the "standard" thickness of high performance racing tubes for decades. The famed Columbus SL/SLX and Reynolds 531C were both .9/.6/.9 and both ride/rode wonderfully. If you are lighter than 140 pounds and/or ride a frame smaller than 54 cm. or so it is unnecessarily heavy for you and will give a stiff ride. If you are over about 190 pounds and/or ride a frame larger than 60cm or so, it may be too light for you and will be a bit whippy. (I am 200 pounds and ride a 63, but enjoy a flexible frame so use this wall thickness.) The fact that it is seamed is unimportant. Some of the best tubing in the world is seamed. Done correctly, the seam is undetectable inside or out and does not weaken the tubing at all.

I do not know the specifications of Tange Infinity, but have seen it spec'd in some lower end frames, so suspect it is lower quality than the Kaisei.

HTH!

Thanks for all the advice/info.
I agree that unless I can do a test ride I'll never know for sure if it will be a correct fit.

six jours - I'm around 150 pounds and will most likely need a frame size under 54cm (I'm only 165cm) So I'll bear this in mind when test riding the araya.

Just wondered if anyone can add further recommendations for randonneurs or any bike for that matter that will manage longish rides around this price point? No doubt this type of question has been asked countless times all over this forum. So I'll will ofcourse search through posts regarding recommended randonneurs around 150,000yen. Bearing in mind that I live in Japan the choices available will ofcourse vary.

Thanks
kohey

In your shoes I would look at Toei and Grand Bois -- although I can't think in yen and don't know how many of them you have to trade for a Toei or Grand Bois...

The ARAYA Randonneur seem to be a very competent touring/camping bike but the name is a bit missleading. If your interested in riding in organised randonneur events there is no need to bring a full camping kit. Like Homeyba said there is a rather large difference in weight and the thinner tubes of a purpose built rando frame will plane and reduce road buzz better witch is a big advantage when you spend long hours in the sadle. Why not have a look at the ARAYA EXCELLA that is also shown in one of your links or Surly Cross Check and such models. They'll should be better priced but still rigid enough to handle enough camping gear for week long touring trips.