mr.korea85

My brother and I were discussing the benefits of cycling and the obvious ones came up: exercise, joy, stress relief, etc. etc...

But as we sat down to watch a movie a scene depicting gridlocked freeways for miles and miles got me thinking "If I were on a bike I could avoid an alien attack quicker than anybody else could in a car". He didn't really have much to say.

So my question to the people of LDC if a hurricane Katrina type evacuation was called how many of you would hop on a bike and ride to safety? Not as many valuables could be taken but my life would be more important. And if you did, what would you bring?

I myself, would bring passports, photo albums, wallet filled with cash and credit cards, an extra change of clothes, phone, food, and plenty of water.

nahh

I know a few people that biked out during the Hurricane Katrina evacuation. I think there's a forum member that did something like that, Joeybike. he probs doesn't check the Long Distance Forum, but he's active in Commuting.

Machka 

Odd topic for the Long Distance forum considering that this forum is mainly about long distance cycling events and challenges.


But since Rowan is a long distance cyclist, I'll just say that when he had to evacuate because of the Victorian Bushfires this past February, I am very, very, very, very glad that he did not have to cycle out. He was able to borrow a vehicle sitting on the property where he lived, and was able to save quite a few of his things ............. and his life. Had he been in a position where he was forced to depend on a bicycle to get out ......... I'm not sure he would have been so fortunate. The place was going up in flame as he left.

And photo albums would be one of the last things I'd bring. Photos are all, or almost all, on computer these days ... so like Rowan, my computer would be one of the first things I'd grab.

The Octopus 

Fires aside, I think there are many evacuation scenarios where you'd fare better on a bike than in a car. I have commuted numerous times in snow that gridlocked the city but I rolled merrily along, lane-splitting between motor vehicles that weren't going anywhere anytime soon. On 9/11/01, I was working in downtown Boston. Everyone was sent home from work at pretty much the same time that morning, all over the city. Boston traffic is never good and that day it was a spectacular disaster. I arrived home in the same 20 minutes I always did.

When the Hayward Fault finally cuts loose, the only people getting out of the Bay Area will be those on foot and those on bikes.

Rowan

Trying to evacuate during an event is impossible in my estimation.

You cannot ride a bicycle or run in the 200+km/h winds of a tornado or hurricane; you cannot outride or run a bushfire moving at 100+km/h and spotting up to 20km ahead of itself (trust me on this one); you cannot possibly ride or even walk across a flood any deeper than say a foot and moving slowly at that, and with a tsumani, you've got no hope other than climbing upwards; you probably won't have anywhere to run or ride in an earthquake.

The only time departing on a bike or by foot is before or after the event has occurred. Using either of those two methods also requires an understanding of how quickly the event will occur which in turn requires a decision on when to depart.

In those circumstances, pre or post event, having access to a bicycle or moving by foot may well be an efficient way to evacuate. But, you also have to know where to go and the extent of the devastation, and how safe it will be to traverse the debris or hotspots that inevitably are left over and could flare again in an instant.

The Victorian and indeed most Australian governments are now grappling with the evaucation procedures post the Black Saturday bushfires in February that destroyed my home. Up to now, they have encouraged people to make one of two decisions -- evacuate early, or be prepared to stay and defend with a carefully assembled fire fighting plan for their residence.

The fact that so many people died defending their properties has caused the governments to rethink their stay-and-defend policies. Likewise, the number of people who died trying to escape the onslaught in their motor vehicles when there was only one exit away from their residences is causing a review of just when evacuation must take place prior to arrival of a fire when the conditions are gauged to be catastrophic (a new top level on the scale of bushfire danger).

As Machka so rightly points out, in my case, had I not had access to the property owner's vehicle, I likely would not have been able to escape on a bicycle, unless I had left considerably earlier and with virtually nothing with me. As it was, all my bicycles and a limited amount of other gear were loaded on to the the pick-up and I left as literally the place was going up in flames.

The unknown quantity in circumstances like this is just how other people will act. Evacuation of a nearby town that was totally destroyed by fire resulted in a traffic jam on the only available exit. Thirty-four people died in that town for one reason or another -- usually because they had chosen to stay and defend. Whether they would have lived by evacuating is a moot point, as the extra traffic in the jam may well have stopped vehicular evacuation anyway.

The collateral damage caused by such disasters can also be dangerous even after the event. In our case, falling trees and limbs that had been burnt through blocked road and represented a true danger to people under them, including two firefighters who were killed in such circumstances while mopping up.

The theory behind all this is fine, and it is good to think about what can happen in a disaster, and have a plan. But until you actually experience something like this, you have no idea if your plan (other than very early evacuation) will work.

And it requires the co-operation of the people around you, too. The police, fire and rescue authorities in February were left bereft of resources, control and ideas because of the unprecendented severity of the firestorms.

Literally, everyone I came into contact with, including police brought in from other unaffected areas of the state, was in a state of shock and communications were such that no-one really knew what was going on.

And this shows you how arrogant and poorly regarded some of the cycling community are now, post this event. A group of cyclist totally ignored directives of authorities not to ride into a fire-affected area, and another cyclist, a nutcase who lives in another town near me, was apprehended riding a mountain bike in a closed area so he could get ghoulish photographs of wreckage.

So, even if you ride a bike out of an area affected by a disaster after the event has happened, don't be surprised if you are hassled firstly by authorities, and secondly by people in gridlocked motor vehicles who see you gaining an unfair advantage over them.

Just speaking from experience...

mr.korea85

I personally haven't had any experience with an evac-type of situation, thankfully.

Rowan, you said that it would be impossible to escape during an event. But what of the 2-3 days prior to the event? I know that in some instances, masses of people have fled their homes even while their properties were at no risk. The unexpected influx of people led to gridlock 2 days prior to the hurricane. I was trying to refer to a situation like that. Where a person has a day or two to get away and hopefully put enough distance between them and the storm.

I also think that the fire scenario you were challenged with is much different from that of a hurricane. With a hurricane most people have a rather wide window of opportunity to get their things together and get out. And I'm not familiar with your story (though I would love to hear it), but with a fire it can be very unexpected and can leave many with just enough time to make a snap decision: to stay and defend their property; or flee with their lives.

I am not sure that motorists would be angered by a fleeing person on a bike. Maybe a little frustrated at their current situation and the stop and wait nature of a mass evac., but I would think not at the person who thought it was a good idea to ride.

Again though, I have never had to deal with a situation remotely close to that of an evacuation. All I'm going with is news footage and my noggin.

I'd love to hear your story though!

Mr. Beanz

Well, never been in that situation but if something were to happen here, being near the mtns, I'dl take my MTB and go looking for my wife. I'd take a big stick and be ready to go Mad Max on any fool that tries to take my MTB!

Rowan

People who have never experienced a disaster go into a denial. It's a bit like cars and accidents -- the mindset develops: It couldn't possibly happen to me.

That denial often means those are unprepared for the speed of a disaster occurring. Why do you think so many people are killed when disasters happen? There were many people who refused to leave their residences in Hurricane Katrina, and suffered the ultimate consequence. How many people are building on the faults on the American West Coast, in the supposed full knowledge that a major earthquake is inevitable? Surely now is the time to "evacuate" those at-risk areas.

I accept the point about evacuating one, two or three days before the predicted occurrence of a disaster such as a hurricane. It is the issue that authorities here are grappling with at present. But it also amounts to the need for an adequate evacuation plan to avoid gridlock situations, and for authorities to actually know how to implement that plan, and to know what they are doing under pressure.

The Royal Commission (a judicial inquiry with evidence taken under oath) into the February fires here is trying to identify many of the problems, and they seem to sheet home to the authorities' failure to have an adequate management structure in place, and a discernable reluctance to for them take responsibility for forcing evacuations, even when the law provided for them.

Of course, the problem we now face is that, having had such a huge disaster occur in February, are we heading towards the "Cry Wolf" scenario, where gunshy authorities proclaim a high fire danger when the temps get above 25 deg C, yet the vegetation is still wet from last week's rainfall. It may mean that people will ignore the warnings after the first two or three false alarms, to their peril.

The issues of disaster management certainly are monumental because of the public interest issues that are involved.

My "story" is here, although the link has not been publicly available until now and it is based on the emails Machka and I exchanged up to and after I left the scene:

www.cycling-adventurer.net/bushfires/index.html

And yes, I know there is glitch with the pictures down the right side, and the picture gallery link doesn't work... I haven't been to the page for around six months...

thompsw

Photo albums ? How many three ring binders can you carry on a bike ? I have about 40 photo albums even though I have not added to my photo albums in 10 years. Having said that, all my photos are digitized now and I have 40,000+ photos online for my kids to enjoy. I don't have to bother with my computer since I have offsite backup of same (the advantage of having two houses).

What would I bring and how would I travel ? My first focus would be life and limb -- myself, my wife, any other family or friends present, our Golden Retriever. Beyond that, emergency food and water come to mind. The mode of transportation would depend on the location, the event, the time of year, the amount of warning. In the middle of a hurricane or tornado in Florida, it would be too late. Up north of Toronto I don't have to worry about traffic jams but you cannot get very far on a bike ... especially in the winter !

This is not really a long distance topic ...