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PBP Info

Old 01-21-10, 01:17 AM
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PBP Info

The official PBP brochure has been released:

You can read it from the Audax Australia website here:
https://audax.org.au/public/index.php...=17&Itemid=160

Or I think this link (through the Audax Australia website) will take you directly there:
https://audax.org.au/public/images/st...11Brochure.pdf

Enjoy!!
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Old 01-21-10, 08:46 AM
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Glad to see the ACP has short-circuited some of the stupider ideas that were floating around.
ACP has now made the 1000km preregistration official:
1000km in 2010 -> Preregister April 3, 2011
600km in 2010 -> Preregister April 17
400km in 2010 -> Preregister May 1
300km in 2010 -> Preregister May 15
200km in 2010 -> Preregister May 29

on edit: I suppose this doesn't really preclude a national organization from doing something silly.

The ACP probably doesn't care much about this, but organizations like RUSA don't want to have these rules disrupt the wave of memberships they get every PBP year. My thought is that there will be a significant number of people participating in PBP that only do a SR series in 2011.

Last edited by unterhausen; 01-21-10 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 01-21-10, 03:56 PM
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The original idea was that all you had to do was a 400K in 2010 in order to be able to register early. Then there was all sorts of debate about what if everyone did a 400K and registered early. So in mid-December 2009, the ACP added the 600K and 1000K. Simple and straightforward.

And all you have to do is one 1000K. Doing more will not get you any further ahead.



That's exactly what I did prior to doing the 2003 PBP. In 2002, I rode an SR series and the Rocky Mountain 1200. It was very good practice to do something like that in my own country prior to going to France to do it there.

Last edited by Machka; 01-21-10 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 01-22-10, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka
The original idea was that all you had to do was a 400K in 2010 in order to be able to register early. Then there was all sorts of debate about what if everyone did a 400K and registered early. So in mid-December 2009, the ACP added the 600K and 1000K. Simple and straightforward.

And all you have to do is one 1000K. Doing more will not get you any further ahead.
Incorrect, the quotas for some countries will certainly be exceeded (Australia's will certainly be exceeded). Sure, a 1000 in 2010 will get you in but will all the 2010 600 riders get in? Probably but not all of the 2010 400 rider are certain to do so. At some point, the quota kicks in and the ACP has said that it will be up to the national organisations to make the cut.

It is a real crock of **** that the ACP changed their PBP pre-qualification rules after the 2010 calendar was fixed in stone.
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Old 01-22-10, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by LWaB
Incorrect, the quotas for some countries will certainly be exceeded (Australia's will certainly be exceeded). Sure, a 1000 in 2010 will get you in but will all the 2010 600 riders get in? Probably but not all of the 2010 400 rider are certain to do so. At some point, the quota kicks in and the ACP has said that it will be up to the national organisations to make the cut.
You're agreeing with me ... or not disagreeing with me. Whichever, what I am saying is correct, and you're confirming that.

Yes, the quotas for some countries will be exceeded, but doing two or three 1000K randonnees in a year, instead of just one, isn't going to increase the chances that a person will make the cut. I highly doubt that everyone who wants to go to the PBP will successfully complete a 1000K randonnee this year.

It will likely work out that all the 1000K riders will get in (so someone who has done just one 1000K will be fine) ... all the 600K riders will get in, all the 400K riders will get in, and perhaps there might be some issues once Australia gets down to the 300K and 200K riders. At that point, I believe the plan is to look at the riders who have done more riding up to, but not exceeding, 2500 km of brevets in 2010.
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Old 01-22-10, 06:08 AM
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So essentially we have a 2 year qualification period now. If someone wants to have the best chance in a country with lots of potential qualifiers one gets to go out and do a SR series + 1000k in 2010 to 'preregister' in early 2011, and do the SR series all over again in 2011 to 'register'.
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Old 01-22-10, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bmike
So essentially we have a 2 year qualification period now. If someone wants to have the best chance in a country with lots of potential qualifiers one gets to go out and do a SR series + 1000k in 2010 to 'preregister' in early 2011, and do the SR series all over again in 2011 to 'register'.
Sort of. It really just gives those that have shown an interest in riding brevets for longer than a year priority.

It will be interesting to see how quickly slots fill up. I'd actually be surprised if no one who doesn't ride at least one brevet this year is admitted to PBP. I really doubt the number of people who do >=1000k in 2010 will make a huge dent in any quota.
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Old 01-22-10, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka
You're agreeing with me ... or not disagreeing with me. Whichever, what I am saying is correct, and you're confirming that.
Maybe he's disagreeing with me.

If you want to be sure to be able to register, move to Costa Rica. Guaranteed a slot if you have an SR series in 2011
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Old 01-23-10, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
1000km in 2010 -> Preregister April 3, 2011
600km in 2010 -> Preregister April 17
400km in 2010 -> Preregister May 1
300km in 2010 -> Preregister May 15
200km in 2010 -> Preregister May 29
The process looks better all the time, for 2011 at least. If all the 1000k riders from your country get in, then you can't say you didn't get your chance.

It seems like they should spell out the tiebreaker, though, like most brevet miles. And, of course, this method can easily become obsolete in future years, with growth in the number of folks who want to ride.

I give them credit for this time around, for making the system fair and spelling it out clearly.
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Old 01-24-10, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by gazer
Sort of. It really just gives those that have shown an interest in riding brevets for longer than a year priority.
yeah, thats kind of what i said...
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Old 01-24-10, 01:04 PM
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I don't see what all the worry is about - this is still just a bike ride... right?
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Old 01-24-10, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm
I don't see what all the worry is about - this is still just a bike ride... right?
Yep ... and I've heard that there will be other 1200Ks in the 2011 PBP year for the first time (ever?). In the past, during the PBP years, the PBP was the only 1200K allowed. Now that there are so many riders wanting to do the PBP, there's talk that other 1200Ks will be allowed to kind of spread the riders out.

If there's something else on in Europe, I might be interested in doing that instead.
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Old 01-24-10, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka
Yep ... and I've heard that there will be other 1200Ks in the 2011 PBP year for the first time (ever?). In the past, during the PBP years, the PBP was the only 1200K allowed. Now that there are so many riders wanting to do the PBP, there's talk that other 1200Ks will be allowed to kind of spread the riders out.

If there's something else on in Europe, I might be interested in doing that instead.
More than just talk.

At the international business meeting after the end-of-PBP-2007, the idea that other 1200 km rides would be allowed was "moved", and the motion carried.

Another thing that was changed was allowing brevet pre-rides to be more than a week before the scheduled ride.

I'm sure everyone can find the link, probably through the RUSA site, where the business meeting was discussed in combination with someone's report on the 2007 ride.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am thinking that a Yogi Berra paraphrase will soon be applicable to PBP:

No one rides that anymore, it is too crowded.
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Old 01-25-10, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by skiffrun
More than just talk.

At the international business meeting after the end-of-PBP-2007...
The question remains, are there any 1200's planned for 2011 other than PBP and if so, where?
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Old 01-25-10, 05:34 PM
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Well, I expect they would start to come up on the new and improved Les Randonneurs Mondiaux website:
https://www.lesrandonneursmondiaux.org/

Check the calendar for BRM events this year:
https://www.lesrandonneursmondiaux.org/calendar.html


The UMCA calendar should also have events, but they too only list events for the current year:
https://www.ultracycling.com/events/rides.html

Last edited by Machka; 01-25-10 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 01-26-10, 02:08 AM
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It looks like they are also going to count a Randonneurs Mondiaux sanctioned 1200km as a 1000km.

I'm pretty pleased about that.

PBP may be 18 months away but I'm still getting pretty excited about it. PBP is just another bike ride just like the superbowl is just another football game.

BTW, go the Saints... yes I follow it down under.
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Old 01-26-10, 03:39 AM
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Yes, according to the brochure you can substitute a 1200K for a 1000K.
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Old 02-03-10, 11:17 PM
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So, if one completes a Brevet series (200, 300, 400, & 600) in 2010 and then 'pre-registers'; does that guarantee a successful 'registration' (assuming you complete another series in 2011 and then formally complete registration)?

In other words, is pre-registration on a first come, first served basis (thus guaranteeing a slot) or is there some other allocation process if that countrys' allocation is exceeded during the pre-reg period?
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Old 02-04-10, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Daveyboy
So, if one completes a Brevet series (200, 300, 400, & 600) in 2010 and then 'pre-registers'; does that guarantee a successful 'registration' (assuming you complete another series in 2011 and then formally complete registration)?

In other words, is pre-registration on a first come, first served basis (thus guaranteeing a slot) or is there some other allocation process if that countrys' allocation is exceeded during the pre-reg period?
No. You are not guaranteed a spot.

If you complete a 1000K (or 1200K) you are reasonably assured of getting a spot ... but there is no guarantee. If 5010 people opt to ride a 1000K this year, some may not get in.

If you complete a 600K you are less assured of getting a spot because there will be quite a few people who do the 1000K ride. If 4000 people ride a 1000K this year, and 2000 people ride a 600K, roughly 1000 of those 2000 who completed a 600K will not get a spot.

Individual countries will be given a specific allocation, and I think it might be up to them to make decisions regarding some of the applicants.

I personally think the previous two scenarios I gave are unlikely. I suspect that there will be maybe 1000 people who ride the 1000K, another 1500 people who ride a 600K, maybe 2000 people who ride a 400K (total 4500 so far) ...... and then if 3000 people ride at least a 300K, and if that puts certain countries over their allocated amounts, those countries will have to make some decisions.


Incidentally, there is nothing in the information about completing a Super Randonneur series in 2010. RUSA is the only organization I know that requires their members to ride a 200K before a 300K, a 300K before a 400K, a 400K before a 600K, and so on (or at least that's what I was told). Most other organizations allow their members to leap right in and do whatever distance they want. In Canada, for example, all you'd have to ride in 2010 is a 1000K. That's it. No 200K, 300K, 400K, or 600Ks, just a 1000K. I believe it is the same here in Australia and Rowan and I have our eye on a particular 1000K which I'm hoping I will be fit enough to ride.

That said, completing a few additional brevets may be what your country requires in order to make their decision, especially if the longest brevet you opt to ride this year is a 300K or 400K.

Last edited by Machka; 02-04-10 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 02-04-10, 05:45 AM
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Ummm, Machka....not sure if that's right. No RUSA brevet I've ridden required a qualifier (i.e., 200km before 300 km, etc.). They may be out there, but I haven't seen one.

I know many RBAs who recommend such a course of action, just to ensure you have a reasonable chance of fininshing, but I've yet to see one where it's required.

Caveat: Most 1000km rides do require a SR series to qualify.

I for one was already planning on doing a 1000 km in 2010, as that's all I have standing between me and my R-5000....helping pre-qualify for the 2011 PBP is icing on the cake!
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Old 02-04-10, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka
... RUSA is the only organization I know that requires their members to ride a 200K before a 300K, a 300K before a 400K, a 400K before a 600K, and so on (or at least that's what I was told)...
Whoever told you that Machka wasn't correct. You can do them in any order and you don't even have to do a complete series to do 1000k or even a 1200k if you get the RBA's approval. There are a whole bunch of RBA's here in the states and they are all a little different in how they enforce or don't enforce rules.
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Old 02-04-10, 09:21 PM
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RUSA is the only organization I know that requires their members to ride a 200K before a 300K, a 300K before a 400K, a 400K before a 600K, and so on (or at least that's what I was told).
Not so, at least not since 2005 when I began randonneuring. RUSA does not require this in their Rules for Riders, and I don't know a single RBA that requires it. I've only done 1 1000K, and that had no prerequisites, either.

As for what gets you assured a spot in PBP, I don't think RUSA has decided how it's going to deal with the country quota that will apply to the U.S. Keep in mind this is entirely separate from the ACP priority system. It's possible that RUSA comes up with a system where, because spots are held for new people, that someone who rode a 1000K in 2010 gets denied while someone else who is brand new to randonneuring in 2011 gets a spot. I suspect we Americans will find a way to louse this process up and engender years of complaining.
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Old 02-04-10, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Homeyba
... you don't even have to do a complete series to do ... even a 1200k if you get the RBA's approval.
Two of the 4 domestic 1200Ks I've done I did without meeting the ride prerequisites. If you've got a track record of successfully completing the longer rides well within time, and especially if you have had good results in other 1200Ks, I've found the U.S. RBAs to be quite accomodating at waiving the prerequisites.
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Old 02-04-10, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Homeyba
Whoever told you that Machka wasn't correct. You can do them in any order and you don't even have to do a complete series to do 1000k or even a 1200k if you get the RBA's approval. There are a whole bunch of RBA's here in the states and they are all a little different in how they enforce or don't enforce rules.
OK, that's good to know. I was surprised when I was told that they had to be completed in order.

Personally, I've discovered that I like the order of 200K, 300K ... then the 600K, then the 400K. I tried that, and had my best 600K and one of my best 400Ks. Getting the 600K out of the way early just meant I was relaxed and comfortable on the 400K.
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Old 02-09-10, 11:42 AM
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Hey guys,

I've recently completed my 1st BRM 200km... actually the first on Indian soil. And the Rondonneuring concept has gone down pretty well with many of us. And although its a very long shot for us first time Randonnees we too are dreaming of the PBP 2011.

When they say 1000km in 2010... does that mean the calendar year 2010 or the BRM calendar (Nov-Oct). The thing is we are planning to have a 1000km ride somewhere in Dec2010, would that qualify for the preregistration??? or is the 1000km required before Nov2010??? Dec is the best time to ride since that's the only best time to such a long ride here in India due to the hot & humid conditions in Summers & the heavy downpours in the Rainy season.
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