Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-22-10, 08:19 PM   #26
Nola_Gal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Nola_Gal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Orleans
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9 5
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Okay, I did a couple of rides with the credit card fix. The first was with different insoles and while it was better, my feet still felt pressured. Today, I found the thinnest socks I had and put the thinner stock insole back in over the credit card. That seems to have done it. The shoes are plenty long enough so right now I have a couple of socks balled up and pushed up in the forefoot area. I know they don't stretch, but being new shoes, I'm hoping I can loosen that part up a bit. (I could leave that first velcro strap undone but the sides are a bit stiff so it doesn't seem to have much effect right now. Hopefully some more wear will add some flex.)

I'm also working on getting my cadence up to at least the mid 80's...I realized through all this 'testing' that I tend to mash through headwinds which I'm certain hasn't helped.

Thanks everyone! Hopefully I'll be posting here again as a real randonneuse!
Nola_Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-17, 02:32 PM   #27
nightfly5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Important! Figured out my wife's hot foot

Well last season my wife started getting the proverbial hot foot on a bike. We read all the stuff on line and did all the recommended things including bike fitting, socks, new shoes, and all the rest. It got better but still not solved. And I mean we read everything and tried everything. She pretty much lost the season.

Well last night we finally figured this out. Ladies pay attention here. We did over 40 miles on Saturday and no problem. We did 15 miles last night and she is in severe pain? We had read heat exacerbates this condition but temperature was almost the same. Well it dawned on us she had worked that day. She is a person who is vertically challenged, so she wears fabulous high heals. Looks terrific but we have discovered wearing these all day and riding later is a bad combo.

High heals are notoriously bad for feet. One of the things that causes hot foot is a narrow if not constrained toe box pressuring the nerve. Well guess what high heels does to the foot all day. For you ladies suffering from this or even guys, check out what you wore that day or the day before prior to your ride. Especially for the ladies, i would venture to say you may have your answer.
nightfly5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-17, 03:06 PM   #28
John_V 
Senior Member
 
John_V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes: 2017 Colnago C-RS, 2012 Colnago Ace, 2010 Giant Cypress hybrid
Posts: 4,796
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
I ride with M530 pedals and LG MTB shoes. I average 10,000+ miles a year. Never had a hot spot since I've been riding. Before you go and spend money on different shoes and pedals, try the credit card hack that someone has already mentioned and play with your cleat position until you find a good spot for them. They should be positioned directly under the ball of your feet.
__________________
HCFR Cycling Team
Ride Safe ... Ride Hard ... Ride Daily

2017 Colnago C-RS
2012 Colnago Ace
2010 Giant Cypress
John_V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-17, 11:08 PM   #29
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 15,641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
this thread makes me sad since so many of the people posting in it no longer post. I was still fighting hot spots when this thread died down the first time. I'm glad I didn't listen to the people that think pedals have anything to do with it. Maybe if you are wearing sneakers, but ymmv. For long distances, i.e., 100 miles is a short ride, I find that shoe volume is everything. At about 100 miles, like clockwork, I'll get hotfoot in certain shoes. These are shoes that fit exactly right at zero miles. The issue is nerve compression as my feet swell a little, probably the nerve that comes in on the outside of the foot. I find that shoes with large toe volume avoid hotfoot for me.
__________________
Randonneuring -- it's touring for people that aren't smart enough to stop for the night.
It's a wonderful sport when you can make up for a lack of ability with a lack of sleep
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-17, 11:48 PM   #30
europa
Grumpy Old Bugga
 
europa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Bikes: Hillbrick, KHS Flite 500, Europa (R.I.P.)
Posts: 3,923
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
That might explain why I went away from my clipless shoes, I probably bought them too tight, as advised by the shop bloke who was actually a much respected racing coach here. Since then I've gone to a skateboard shoe that I tie loose (I'm a flat pedal and toe clips man at the moment).
europa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 09:53 AM   #31
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 15,641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
yes, racers think they need tight shoes, I know I did back when I raced. Turns out that it really doesn't matter all that much, and the downside can be excruciating pain.
__________________
Randonneuring -- it's touring for people that aren't smart enough to stop for the night.
It's a wonderful sport when you can make up for a lack of ability with a lack of sleep
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 10:28 AM   #32
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 8
Posts: 27,922
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2839 Post(s)
IMHO The SPuD cleat in a walkable recessed pocket rubber sole shoe, is likely why the pressure is concentrated


a hard sole road shoe with a 3 bolt Look type cleat/pedal will suck walking far,
As will the SPD Pontoon cleat , to keep those pedals..

but the rigid shoe will better support the whole foot.

'clipless pedal' shoes tendency to let you remove your foot from the shoe as easily as get the cleat released,
has people making their shoe tighter..





....




....

Last edited by fietsbob; 06-17-17 at 10:32 AM.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 12:30 PM   #33
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 15,641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
IMHO The SPuD cleat in a walkable recessed pocket rubber sole shoe, is likely why the pressure is concentrated.
I just rode my bike for 25 hours straight in hot weather without a problem using SPD pedals. I suffered from exactly zero problems with hotfoot. And my shoes aren't really that stiff either.
__________________
Randonneuring -- it's touring for people that aren't smart enough to stop for the night.
It's a wonderful sport when you can make up for a lack of ability with a lack of sleep
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 01:32 PM   #34
ThermionicScott 
Gratuitous glib and snark
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)
Posts: 15,351
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 853 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
this thread makes me sad since so many of the people posting in it no longer post. I was still fighting hot spots when this thread died down the first time. I'm glad I didn't listen to the people that think pedals have anything to do with it. Maybe if you are wearing sneakers, but ymmv. For long distances, i.e., 100 miles is a short ride, I find that shoe volume is everything. At about 100 miles, like clockwork, I'll get hotfoot in certain shoes. These are shoes that fit exactly right at zero miles. The issue is nerve compression as my feet swell a little, probably the nerve that comes in on the outside of the foot. I find that shoes with large toe volume avoid hotfoot for me.
+1. I was on a 400k (or was it a 600k) a few years ago, and just in excruciating pain. I had already loosened my laces a bunch and took my shoes off at every stop, and it wasn't enough. In desperation, I took the insoles out and stuffed them into my handlebar bag. The relief was instantaneous and glorious. Of course, the smart thing would have been to lower my saddle to adjust for the increased leg extension, but my group was in a hurry to finish.

I do think there is something to saddle height in general, though. Left to my own devices, I've tended to adjust my saddle a little too high, and that results in toes-down pedaling that repeatedly pushes my feet toward the front of the shoes. Lowering my saddle so that my feet are in a relatively flat position helped a little with my foot pain situation.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 01:35 PM   #35
John_V 
Senior Member
 
John_V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes: 2017 Colnago C-RS, 2012 Colnago Ace, 2010 Giant Cypress hybrid
Posts: 4,796
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I just rode my bike for 25 hours straight in hot weather without a problem using SPD pedals. I suffered from exactly zero problems with hotfoot. And my shoes aren't really that stiff either.
I've had several pair of MTB shoes from different manufactures and as of yet, and no matter what I've done, I've never been able to flex or bend the soles of any of them. Other than maybe being an advertising ploy to charge more money for "stiffer" shoes, I'm wondering, "if they don't flex or bend, just how stiff does a sole have to be?"
__________________
HCFR Cycling Team
Ride Safe ... Ride Hard ... Ride Daily

2017 Colnago C-RS
2012 Colnago Ace
2010 Giant Cypress
John_V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-17, 07:10 AM   #36
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 8
Posts: 27,922
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2839 Post(s)
anecdote offerers, to the contrary, tell the OP your secret?

your shoes of the godz fix. I got some Italian made for Nike Mountain bike shoes ,

though I no longer have a Spud pedal on any of my bikes..
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-17, 11:01 AM   #37
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 15,641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
anecdote offerers, to the contrary, tell the OP your secret?
I did, shoe volume. Particularly in the front of the shoe. Plus, the OP is long gone, this is a seven year old thread.

The shoes I am using right now are Giro HV mid-range MTB shoe. They probably are relatively stiff through the center of the sole, but I can feel them flex when walking.

One strange thing about shoes is that they can irritate the front of your foot by being too high or pinching at the ankle. There are two nerve bundles that go into the foot, and one of the easiest places to pinch them is at the ankle. I had some shoes that seem to give problems there.

The person that resurrected this thread mentioned his wife had problems after wearing high heels. I assume these caused her feet to swell. Hard to see another mechanism.

I also use prescription orthotics with a metatarsal bump. The bump spreads the toes so the nerves going to the toes don't get pinched. I don't get numb toes any more, but I don't think people describe numb toes as hotfoot. You can get add-on metatarsal pads or insoles with them built in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I do think there is something to saddle height in general, though. Left to my own devices, I've tended to adjust my saddle a little too high, and that results in toes-down pedaling that repeatedly pushes my feet toward the front of the shoes. Lowering my saddle so that my feet are in a relatively flat position helped a little with my foot pain situation.
I tend to pedal toes-down when I'm tired. My seat is probably a bit too high, but no more than 4mm. Pedaling toes down has the effect of moving it down quite a bit. Not sure it's worth messing with, I just try not to smoosh my toes too much. I have a lot of bad habits after 300km, I try to keep things together the best I can and practice good form while training.
__________________
Randonneuring -- it's touring for people that aren't smart enough to stop for the night.
It's a wonderful sport when you can make up for a lack of ability with a lack of sleep

Last edited by unterhausen; 06-18-17 at 11:07 AM.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-17, 12:03 PM   #38
Rowan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 16,243
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I did, shoe volume. Particularly in the front of the shoe. Plus, the OP is long gone, this is a seven year old thread.

The shoes I am using right now are Giro HV mid-range MTB shoe. They probably are relatively stiff through the center of the sole, but I can feel them flex when walking.

One strange thing about shoes is that they can irritate the front of your foot by being too high or pinching at the ankle. There are two nerve bundles that go into the foot, and one of the easiest places to pinch them is at the ankle. I had some shoes that seem to give problems there.

The person that resurrected this thread mentioned his wife had problems after wearing high heels. I assume these caused her feet to swell. Hard to see another mechanism.

I also use prescription orthotics with a metatarsal bump. The bump spreads the toes so the nerves going to the toes don't get pinched. I don't get numb toes any more, but I don't think people describe numb toes as hotfoot. You can get add-on metatarsal pads or insoles with them built in.

I tend to pedal toes-down when I'm tired. My seat is probably a bit too high, but no more than 4mm. Pedaling toes down has the effect of moving it down quite a bit. Not sure it's worth messing with, I just try not to smoosh my toes too much. I have a lot of bad habits after 300km, I try to keep things together the best I can and practice good form while training.
I am told that hot foot in the women's shoe world is a common problem because the metatarsals are scrunched together in a narrow space, thus pinching the nerves and causing numbness and/or pain. In the supermarkets in Australia, metatarsal buttons are now available, although they aren't identified as such.
Rowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-17, 06:44 PM   #39
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Posts: 12,742
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 755 Post(s)
My opinion, and that's all it is, is that hotfoot is metatarsalgia. Moving cleats back helps because that reduces pressure on the metatarsals. IME hotfoot has nothing to do with cleat size or shoe stiffness. I've seen LD riders with it who had all the "right" equipment. That said, some shoes and insoles make the metatarsals more comfortable than other shoes and insoles do.

Especially on long rides, I make a point of trying to pedal with my heel cups, not my forefoot, and relaxing my ankles. My wife needs her cleats moved all the way back and her shoes fairly loose or she gets foot cramps, though not hotfoot. Everyone's different. I think it's possible that many bike shoes simply have too narrow a toe box, though that does make a more stylish shoe.

Don't set your saddle height by some formula and then use a pedal stroke which works with that height. Rather develop a pedal stroke which is easy on your feet and calves and set your saddle height for that stroke, by feel. Within 4mm of heel-on-pedal, knee locked, usually works.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 03:23 PM   #40
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 15,641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
having had both, I think there is a difference, but I am not positive. Worst case of hotfoot I ever had was because it was wet and I was wearing some toe covers that were a little tight just behind the ball of my foot. 200 excruciating miles and then I took them off and had instant relief. Pretty sure they were pinching one or both of the nerve bundles that go to the front of the foot.

OTOH, I'm much less likely to have a problem if I'm using my orthotics with the metatarsal spreader.
__________________
Randonneuring -- it's touring for people that aren't smart enough to stop for the night.
It's a wonderful sport when you can make up for a lack of ability with a lack of sleep

Last edited by unterhausen; 06-19-17 at 03:29 PM.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-17, 01:30 PM   #41
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, Perfekt 3 Speed of unknown age, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer for exercise. Several others are now gone.
Posts: 3,974
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 504 Post(s)
There is a small chance that there is a shoe problem. Assuming that there is a removable insole, pull that out and see if there is a flat surface on top of the shoe sole under the ball of your foot.

I have some Pearl Izumi SPD shoes that felt great for about 20 miles, after which serious pain. I eventually figured out that the part of the shoe sole that was inside of the shoe immediately under the removable insole had been cut out to install the cleat retention plate, but that they put in a very soft piece of foam to replace it. When I removed the insole and looked in there, it looked like a flat surface and it felt like it too. But the foam would compress easily. Thus, every pedal stroke I was trying to shove my foot into a small square hole that had been cut into the sole of my shoe, and that was my problem. I cut a piece of sheet steel (from the lid of a coffee can with tin snips) that overlapped the hole and put that in on top of the hole and below the removable insole, held it in place with a piece of tape. Worked perfect, it provided a flat surface on the top of the shoe sole for the removable insole to sit on.

I later bought some Keen Commuter IV sandals. My other Keen sandals were great, but the Commuter IV sandals also have an uneven surface under the removable insole. I did not wait to see if it would be a problem, I put a piece of steel plate (also from a coffee can lid) overlapping the uneven portion to provide a flat surface, and a piece of tape to hold it in place. And use them that way. They feel great.

If you have a shoe constructed that way and try this, keep in mind that you are putting many tens of pounds per square inch on that part of your shoe sole, so you need a piece of steel plate (or perhaps other material) that is strong enough to support that much pressure without collapsing into the hole.
Tourist in MSN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-17, 11:36 AM   #42
IK_biker
old fart
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PA-US
Bikes:
Posts: 309
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
I agree that the forefoot shoe volume is the key.

Sometime in early 2013 I did a re-entry in my other significant lifetime hobby, which I had neglected for the last few years – the hiking/mountaineering form of travel.

As with all things I like, I became pretty serious about it pretty quick, and in early summer the 20-mile days in the Appalachian terrain became the norm, for trips lasting 3 to 6 days at a time. I used New Balance trail runners for my hiking.
As a result, my feet (54-years old at the time) which were E width in the forefoot, got quickly splayed to 2E width, although I was not aware of this.
At that same time, the “hot foot” phenomenon manifested itself, on average 28-30 miles into any ride. Sooner if the weather was hotter. Back then I used a pair of Sidi Dominator Megas for everything (SPD cleats) – road and mountain.

I read up on the hot foot issue, tried metatarsal buttons (helped for one ride only), moved my cleats back the farthest possible - about 14 mm – and this helped a little, mostly with delaying the hot foot pain up until mile 33-35.

Then my trail runners were worn to the point that I needed to order new ones. Well, the E-width new shoes felt slightly tight in the forefoot area, so I scratched my head a little and it occurred to me that my feet might have widened a bit. So I re-measured them, and discovered that I am now a solid 2E.
Ordered the right hiking sneakers, and ordered a pair of the widest Specialized BG “wide” model for my biking.
The new biking shoes felt roomy in the forefoot, and their insoles had a metatarsal button feature built in. Rode with them and felt great – no hot foot, no pain, very comfortable up to 85-mile rides.

However, I kept hiking a lot. To the point that my feet got splayed a bit further, only I did not realize it at the time.
Fast forward to early Fall ‘2014, hot feet again around mile 60 of any lengthy ride. The forefoot volume felt entirely used up. This time I was a bit wiser, so I immediately re-measured my forefeet, only to find out that I am now a solid 3E width.
Got a pair of what is I think the gold standard of biking shoes for wide forefoot – the Lake “wides”. What a difference!
No issues ever since, although I have not yet done a single ride longer than 130 miles.
As I have wisened up (or so I tell myself), I diligently measure my feet on a monthly basis, luckily they have stopped growing. They still swell up during long hot rides, but the shoes allow them to. In real hot days (+85F) I ride with a pair of Nashbar SPD sandals, which are great for the purpose (although less great than my Lake shoes for walking).

Since I have naturally strong calves, and see nothing wrong with using them a bit while cycling, I again moved my cleats fore last Fall, and like their new (old) position a lot, to no “hot foot” detriment whatsoever.

Last edited by IK_biker; 06-26-17 at 11:40 AM.
IK_biker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-17, 03:49 PM   #43
antimonysarah
Senior Member
 
antimonysarah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Medford, MA
Bikes: Nishiki Bel-Air, Brompton P6L, Seven Resolute SLX
Posts: 438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I've definitely gotten hotfoot from wearing closed-toe heels (...not for riding long distances in, although as a transportation cyclist I have, indeed, ridden a bike in heels on several occasions). Also, if one's been wearing heels all day, it might incline one to toe-down pedaling because the achilles is going to be tightened up short from the position one takes walking in heels. A good ankle stretching might help if that's at issue.

I got hotfoot yesterday despite wearing my same favorite shoes; not sure if I over-tightened them, if something was still irritated from the 400k the previous weekend, or what. Hopefully it won't repeat.
antimonysarah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:53 PM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    get answers from real people!
Click to start entering your question.
I HAVE A QUESTION