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Wide, fast tires?

Old 08-27-10, 04:57 PM
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Wide, fast tires?

I know this has come up before, but I'd just like to get the latest feedback on the subject. I'm currently running 700x35c Paselas on my Kogswell P/R and it's about time for some new tires. The four contestants are:

1) Pasela (non-TG) 700x35c
2) Grand Bois Cypres 700x30c
3) Vittoria Randonneur Hyper 700x35c (or 38c?)
4) Schwalbe Kojak 700x35c

My priorities are (in order):
1) Fast
2) comfortable
3) good value
4) durable
5) puncture resistant

In addition to the Paselas on my P/R, I've ridden Kojaks on my recumbent and like them pretty well, but the two bikes are so completely different that it makes for a difficult comparison. I really don't have any complaints about the Paselas, but I'm not averse to spending a bit more if it'll get me a better tire.

Anybody have first-hand experience with any of these tires? Are there any others I should look at?

THanks
SP
Bend, OR
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Old 08-27-10, 05:18 PM
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Pick up some back issues of Vintage bike quarterly they run well set up tests to compare tires.
VBQ publisher also imports and sells Grand Bois tires

I got a 2 fer on Panasonic made Jack Brown "33.33" in a close out of a guy who started a bike shop then changed his mind.

But I cannot speak to most of your questions as I ride the Schwalbe marathon tires mostly,
on my bikes that can carry more than just me.

'fast' is all dependent on how much effort you put in ,
Air wont get out of the way you have to push thru it ..
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Old 08-27-10, 09:46 PM
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I haven't tried the tires you list yet, but I have been impressed with the Jack Brown Greens (in 33.3) - 4000 miles on my first set including some dirt, rough roads, and daily urban commuting; just 3 flats (although I double flatted with my replacement pair within the first 500 miles). Supple, comfortable, easy to get on and off, and fast enough for me. That said, I'd like to try the Grand Bois Cypres for some future brevets and weekend rides...
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Old 08-28-10, 08:34 AM
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Out of your list, I've only tried the Grand Bois Cypres 700x30c. Moreoever, I also have extensive experience with the Rivendell Jack Brown Greens, which are similar.

The Jack Browns are very good tires. They're round in profile so they corner well. Despite the general perception that fat tires are slow, the JBs roll quite well and are no worse than any decent set of 700x23c or 700x25c tires on smooth roads (like Vittoria Rubinos); on rough roads, the JBs appear to roll better because I run them at significantly lower pressures (65/75 psi front/rear for a 25/165 lb bike/rider). Running them at the lower pressure also has a lot of benefits in comfort as there's less jarring, although ironically, it's also harder to detect a puncture because you'll get used to the cushy ride.

Durability with the Jack Browns has been good. The rears last me maybe 1500 miles (but my bike+rider is <200lb) and the front appear to be on its way to lasting indefinitely. The Jack Browns Greens are $46 each and so are quite reasonably priced for such a nice tire. Finally, I know it's low on your priority list, but in wearing down a set from new, I only had one puncture and that's pretty good since I rode that set over all sorts of non-city road debris.

So, that's the Jack Brown Greens. They're good enough that I'll recommend them to friends I keep (and I did).

Compared to the Jack Brown Greens, the Grand Bois Cypres is another step higher in performance altogether. They roll extremely well and reminded me of softer Vittoria Open Corsas, which is really saying a lot if you've ever tried the Open Corsas. The cornering is flawless and the low level of rolling resistance continue to surprise me. I've only used them for a few hundred miles but one hundred of those were on the Napa Century. The tires performed flawlessly then.

Comfort appears to be similar to the Jack Brown Greens and it's isn't surprising since I run them at similar pressures and they have similar construction (at least to my untrained eye). The Grand Bois Cypres appear to be a "racier" version of the Jack Browns with more lightweight construction, and thinner/stickier thread.

Ultimately, after trying both out, I'll keep the Grand Bois Cypres on my nice Sunday bike, and continue to use the Jack Brown Greens on my commuter/do-everything bike.
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Old 08-28-10, 02:46 PM
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Challenge Parigi-Roubaix?

Been running a pair a friend handed off to me.
Nice, fast, 29ish in mounted size on Open Pros. Nicest rolling tire I've used, after experimenting with Pasela TG, Conti 4 season GP, Schwalbe (the tough(er) ones) and Pasela non TG.

Compared to the Pasela (28's) and Conti 4 season 28s, they are far smoother (and wider).
I rotate between these, the Conti's, and for rough stuff the Paselas.
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Old 08-28-10, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbycorno
I know this has come up before, but I'd just like to get the latest feedback on the subject. I'm currently running 700x35c Paselas on my Kogswell P/R and it's about time for some new tires. The four contestants are:

1) Pasela (non-TG) 700x35c
2) Grand Bois Cypres 700x30c
3) Vittoria Randonneur Hyper 700x35c (or 38c?)
4) Schwalbe Kojak 700x35c

My priorities are (in order):
1) Fast
2) comfortable
3) good value
4) durable
5) puncture resistant
I've used the Rando Hypers in 37 width. I'd rate them as being in the same group as cheap tires in terms of rolling resistance (speed). They were quite puncture resistant. I ran the rear down to the cords in about 2000 miles. I pulled them from the bike ultimately because I decided that they just didn't roll out well enough for my taste. The price is right on them and I had found them for about $30.

I have not tried the Grand Bios Cypress, but I used a cousin of them: Challenger Parigi-Roubaix. The challenger rolled incredibly well and was superbly comfortable, however, they were subject to flats every 12 miles. I am not kidding. I rode them for about 2 weeks and then completely gave up. The casing is so tender that I never even found the objects that punctured the tire because the casing wasn't tough enough to hold on to them. Before you say it: road riding only, coastal southern California. I am still pissed about those tires. I paid something like $65/tire and they were crap.

I really wish Vittoria would produce a tire based on the Open Corsa or Open Pave' in a 30-32mm design. I'd switch to them for everything.

Good luck,
HB
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Old 08-29-10, 12:02 AM
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I have more than a thousand miles of road and fire trail riding on my Parigi-Roubaix and have not yet punctured. I ride in -- wait for it -- coastal Southern California. I think there was something else going on, Heckboy. These are easily my all-time favorite 700c clinchers.

<edit> If you've still got them, I'd be happy to take them off of your hands. I can trade a pair of low-mileage Grand Bois Cypress for them straight across...
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Old 08-29-10, 10:01 AM
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I have about 400 km on some Grand Bois 28's and love 'em so far. I run 'em at 100-110 depending on road conditions as I put the priority on fast, then comfortable. Barely slower than my (crappy) 23's on on really smooth climbs, faster on everything else. Better cornering and better comfort everywhere. No flats on dirt roads yet.

I had a two mystery flats, both in the same spot on one of 'em. Never figured out the source, but they're stopped with the addition of a patch tire "boot". They shouldn't need this, but I'm happy enough with the ride to put up with it as long as it doesn't continue.

I've used on 32c Paselas on commuter bikes before and that's what I think they're good for. I haven't bothered to put them on a bike a I want to be fast as they feel (in the hand) to be super stiff. The TG version seems even worse in this regard, which is appropriate as they're built for durability.

I have a 35c Vittoria Rando (non hyper version) on the front of my commuter bike now and it's huge. I'd put it in a totally different class than the Grand Bois, probably similar to the Paselas. It's not "fast" in any way, but it corners comfortably, hasn't flatted, and does well in the rain. Commuter tire.

GB: did you ditch your GB tires because of flats?
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Old 08-29-10, 10:58 AM
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When I built my LD bike, I put Paselas 35mm tyres on those, frankly those were the only fat ones available. I have very little experience of Fat 700c tyres, this is my first one, till now I've only ridden 23mm tyres & while I was putting them on I was well afraid of this being a wrong move; but I was wrong. I feel they're quite good & handle great on rough roads. They perform very well on the flats too but I do feel they're a bit slow when it comes to climbing, though it could well be cause this bike is heavier than my other roadbikes. And they are also very comfy even though I use them at 85psi. One thing I did experience that Fat tyres aren't all that bad either.
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Old 08-29-10, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tashi
GB: did you ditch your GB tires because of flats?
Yes. They roll wonderfully but are easily the most flat-prone tires I have ever used. (I didn't want to say anything because I didn't want to sour the potential deal with Heckboy. )

Right now the GBs are doing low-pressure duty on the kiddie trailer, where they are working just fine.
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Old 08-29-10, 08:00 PM
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Panaracer Pacela tour guards. A good compromise with flat protection and speed. I have put 6,000 miles on a pair of 28's the tread was fine still but the threads started coming out of the bead covering edge tape all over the place.

I have used 26's, 28's, 32's, and 27 x 1 1/8. They all are fast for their size, the side walls are not very scrape resistant, but that's what you get with a fast tire. Good flat resistant for small things.
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Old 08-29-10, 09:53 PM
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I just put a set of Continental Cross Speed 700 X 42 on my 29er and I was amazed at how fast they roll. The prices was about 30$ a tire.
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Old 08-29-10, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Six jours
I have more than a thousand miles of road and fire trail riding on my Parigi-Roubaix and have not yet punctured. I ride in -- wait for it -- coastal Southern California. I think there was something else going on, Heckboy. These are easily my all-time favorite 700c clinchers.

<edit> If you've still got them, I'd be happy to take them off of your hands. I can trade a pair of low-mileage Grand Bois Cypress for them straight across...
Sorry to hijack the thread but can you (Six Jours) do a quick compare-n-contrast between the Grand Bois Cypress and the Challenge Parigi-Roubaix? I have the GBC and am curious about the Challenge PR.
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Old 08-29-10, 11:00 PM
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The GBs are maybe a little more comfortable. The PRs are maybe a little faster. They're awfully close, though, and I wouldn't put money on my ability to tell them apart in a blind test. The big difference is that I rarely went more than a week without puncturing the GBs, and my first pair was done within 2000 miles. The rear wore down to cords and the front suffered a sidewall-to-sidewall gash shortly thereafter. As I mentioned, I haven't yet punctured the PRs, and the rear (at a thousand miles) isn't showing much wear. The only negative I have yet come up with is that they are tight on the rims, and with a slightly oversize rim they are utter bastards to mount.
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Old 08-29-10, 11:03 PM
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The tire from the front is in good condition. I think that there were only two flats in the front and they didn't leave big cuts. The rear tire has a number of through the casing cuts, one severe enough that I had booted it with the remnant of an old GP4000.

It is interesting that tire experiences tend to be very individual.

Regards,
HB

PS - I'm not interested in trading.

Originally Posted by Six jours
I have more than a thousand miles of road and fire trail riding on my Parigi-Roubaix and have not yet punctured. I ride in -- wait for it -- coastal Southern California. I think there was something else going on, Heckboy. These are easily my all-time favorite 700c clinchers.

<edit> If you've still got them, I'd be happy to take them off of your hands. I can trade a pair of low-mileage Grand Bois Cypress for them straight across...
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