unterhausen

gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!

thebulls

Well, on a recent Seattle 1000Km, I rode with someone who used the "track" method. Daytime was fine, but as soon as it got dark he started following me because I knew when turns were coming and he didn't. He's a very experienced randonneur and very experienced with his GPS -- it wasn't just a case of lack of knowledge.

As to PBP being "well marked" ... that's the theory, anyway. But if you're a back-of-the-pack rider, then you risk 1) souvenir collectors ahead of you deciding that they want a PBP direction sign, and 2) there aren't so many riders around you anymore. Plus, 3) hope that what happened to my friend doesn't happen to you: Kids in some small French town played a "joke" on him, holding a direction sign pointing the wrong way. At the last moment they reversed it, and he realized what they were doing, tried to correct, and skidded out on the wet road. I don't think it was a ride-ending event, but very painful. With my GPS, I'd have been following the "purple line" so I'd know which way to go. I might then have seen that they were pointing the wrong way, but because I'd have been puzzled I'd have slowed down to figure out what the cue sheet says. Finally, 4) in heavy rain or fog and in the dark, it can be easy to miss a turn, possibly following others who also missed it.

Obviously, people have done fine without GPS at PBP for generations. On margin, though, it's an extra half pound that I'm happy to carry. Others prefer not to.

Nick

bmike

Nick - thanks for the perspective. I'm going to hold off until early summer and will likely go with an HCX.

slide23

I have the Vista HCx and find it to be a great unit. I initially got it with the intent of deliberately getting lost and then making sure I could find water and food without running down blind dead ends in BFE, Vermont. It served that purpose very well.

Battery life is long, ~20 to 25 hours with NiMH batteries. Durability is remarkable: smashed it with a trunk lid and cracked the face but still working, dropped it on the road three times at speed. Trip computer is very configurable. It has temperature, but it's only readable from within a diagnostic mode.

It's my cyclometer, geotagger for my camera (with GPicSync), and course mapper so that I can easily tell which towns to which I have cycled (working on hitting all cities and towns in Oregon).

I have been thinking about the Garmin Oregon 400 series, but I hear that the resistive touchscreen is not the most convenient interface. The upside for me is that the Oregon reads data from the Garmin speed/cadence sensor, which I have and use with a Forerunner 305.

steveindenmark

Hydrated,

I totally agree that a TomTom is not what a randonneur would want on a bike, yes it is too big and heavy, not so much of a problem on a trike though.
Put a small 12v scooter battery on this TomTom and it will go for 5 days without a recharge. It is a fact, I did it in Holland, this year. I am not an expert but then again unlike most experts I take it out into the real world and try it and it works.

This TomTom has been on my motorbike for 1000s of miles without any cover in rain and shine, a lot of rain and it still works as good as the day I bought it. As does the last GPS which is in the drawer because I upgraded to the TomTom. I don`t know what the expert book says about it but I have a lot of biker friends who use the same unit on their motorbikes.

For any riding on a trike these TomTom Gps are fine to tour with plus you have the added bonus of knowing where all sorts of points of interest are. If you are a speedy randonneur type, I would use a Garmin Edge or something similar.

The question was what do you use and I thought I would add something a little different that does work, even though the experts have not tried it.



HOW SIMPLE CAN IT BE ??





TOMTOM ON MY BIKE IN SWITZERLAND

bmike

Something that is important to most randonneurs is transferring a route from the provided cues or GPX files to the GPS unit from a PC.
Not sure if the TomTom can do that...

(and I don't really care, as I won't be getting one...)

Chris_W

Steve - where is that Swiss flag road sign? It's the kind of thing I would take a photo of, but I haven't seen anything like that at any of the border crossings that I've been across. If it's not too far away, it might become my next cycling destination.

Hydrated

I'm sorry that I came across as a jerk... I should have made my point more tactfully. Your statement sums up exactly what I was trying to say... that even though the TomTom will work (and you did a nice job of mitigating the TomTom's shortcomings), there are much better units for cyclists that are lighter, simpler, and more durable.

The first personal GPS unit that I bought was in the summer of 1996. The summer Olympic Games that year were held in Atlanta and the sailing events were held in Savannah, Georgia. After the games ended, the GPS equipment used in the sailing events was sold at massive discounts. I paid a paltry $300 each for 2 of these waterproof units. They are very rudimentary by today's standards... no downloading tracks... no autorouting... all they do is tell you where you are. Any waypoints have to be manually programmed in by the user each time you have changes in your proposed track.

But nowadays... I rarely use GPS when I ride my bikes. As an engineer, I'm immersed in technology all day every day... so my rides are sort of a retreat from technology... an escape. Plus I've been doing this for a living for so long that I find no magic pleasure in the capabilities of GPS units.

That said... I only use GPS when I'm really unsure as to my location or where to make my next turn. So I rely on cue sheets and my Sigma computers for 90% of my navigation. If I really get turned around and lost I pull out the GPS.

And what is that GPS, you say?

I use..... wait for it....


My Android phone.

GPS chipsets are so cheap and accurate nowadays that you can build good GPS into almost any device. And using Google maps on my phone is accurate to within about 15 feet and it's free. Heck... Google navigation even has turn-by-turn voice directed navigation for free now. And I was able to tap into the GPS test routines in the Android operating system so that I can map which satellites I'm locked into and each satellite's signal strength. Did I mention that it's all free? Never have to pay for a map update... Google maps is free.

Plus I can check my email when I stop at Starbucks for caffeine!

bmike

So long as you have data coverage, which on some (many!) rando routes is not guaranteed. When you can cache GoogleMaps data onto an SD card, or download a whole state or route... then we'll be getting somewhere useful.

Even in the car when using GoogleNav on my EVO there are plenty of places where I lose cell service and / or data and the unit goes into 'dumb' mode, just pointing the direction I'm supposed to be going from the cache of turn by turns.

And - as far as I know there is no way to pre-load a route.

Other than those limitations - a phone GPS is great for when you get turned around on a road somewhere out for a ride. I wouldn't want to rely on it though...

Hydrated

We're already there, Mike...

Data connections are an issue for Google Maps/Navigation for many reasons. Remote locations with no coverage are only one problem. Americans traveling in Europe are often apalled at the cost of using roaming data connections in most European cities, so they need an offline map set that uses no data connection after the initial map download.

Search on "MapDroyd" for just one example.

Now as for preloading a route... you can do that on the phone... but it isn't free. The software costs money and it's not the most dependable in the world (it sometimes tends to crash your phone). And if you want preloaded routes and autorouting, you're much better off buying a purpose built sports GPS solution like the eTrex or Edge or something similar.

But like I said... for me the phone fits the way that I use GPS on the road. So the free solution works for me.

bmike

I do the same, using the phone if I get turned around or when I'm somewhere new, no doubt.
I'll check out MapDroyd.
For dedicated use, which is what I started this thread for - an inclusive system - maps, autorouting, tracks, etc... are what makes sense for course navigation.
For open ended navigation - my phone (with coverage) - works fine.

Geo Cruise

As a Land Surveyor/Engineer I have had a lot of experience with GPS, from consumer models to high accuracy engineering units, but on my bike I would be perfectly happy with just a simple bike computer and a decent compass, problem is I have not found a good way to mount a quality compass on my bike yet.

bmike

probably not very accurate:
https://www.stemcaptain.com/shop/compass-2-0/

Homeyba

I've never gotten lost following a route sheet. I have following other people but not the route sheet. That's just part of the fun and adventure though. The vast majority of route slips made up by RBA's are pretty good.

thebulls

On rando events, I don't like to use my phone for anything but phone calls. I don't want to get to day 3 of a 1200, need to phone for a bailout, and then find that my battery has died from using it as either a camera, GPS, web browser, or entertainment system. And since I can't afford to pay hundreds of dollars a year for a data connection, my phone is simple and does only one thing well -- make phone calls. I guess I could send text messages, too, but I always seem to delete the message in the process of trying to find the button to click to send it :-)

Hydrated

This is a wise strategy. My smartphone will do everything except cook dinner... but it sucks batteries down like crazy. And GPS is especially bad on power use. With GPS running and the 4" color screen lit up non-stop for navigation, my phone's battery will only last about 2 hours. You'd have to tap into your generator hub or carry batteries if you planned to use it full time. That's why I only use it for GPS navigation in a pinch.

But I would have a difficult time going back to a "just-a-phone" phone now.

I'm an engineer... the nerd is strong in me!

contango 

Hope I'm not posting out of line here, not being an ultra-cyclist myself.

I use a Garmin GPSMap 60CSx with Garmin's handlebar mount. It can take maps, it can navigate for me (it beeps rather than attempting to talk), it's robust and it's waterproof. By "robust" I've dropped it from waist height onto concrete several times and it still works. Aside from the signs of nearly 5 years of use the only damage to it is a slight scratch on the screen when I forgot it was clipped on my backpack and let the pack tip forward onto rocks. By "waterproof" I've used it in torrential rain and one day I got it very muddy after cycling through lots of muddy puddles and washed it off by holding it under the tap. I think the official spec is that it can withstand being submerged at 1 metre for 30 minutes or something.

It's an older model but you can still buy them new. The 62 series is supposed to be good, I'm considering upgrading but it doesn't look like the advantages it offers me are worth the extra cost for now.

If I'm out for any length of time (which to an ultracyclist is no time at all) I'd take a spare set of batteries. I think the official blurb says about 20 hours to a set of batteries, and from what I recall if you're using decent batteries that's entirely achievable (obviously the backlight causes that to drop!)

I tried a Garmin Oregon but found that even in the shop selling it I struggled to read the screen and the minute sunlight hit it all I could see was a reflection.

pallen

Has anyone used the Forerunner 305 for rando trips? I like the idea of something more compact. I dont really care about all the training stuff. I dont need to necessarily see a map, but cues for turns would be a really good thing. Mainly, what I want is something I can load a route in, follow the route and then look at what I did on the computer after the ride. Is this model any help if you get really lost? How is the real battery life?

La Tortue

I use a garmin edge 305. Just finished a 400k with no problems. I load both routes and courses on it and they do everything I need. You dont have a map but you follow the bread crumbs, the garmin warns you before each turn with a beep and a direction/distance. The back-light will come on in the dark. I also have a battery extender that uses 4 aa batteries to extend the life of the gps. Since you can buy aa batteries at any convenience store the Garmin will essentially last as long as you are out. I am not technically competent and this did make the learning curve very steep to figure out how to load and use the device. Once you learn how you can even rename the turns to match the que sheet names (as opposed to right , left, etc) but I find this a waste of time. I have the upcoming 600K uploaded and see no problems using it during the entire course. I'll have a que sheet handy but plan on following the course and listening for the prompt to get around the course. We'll see what happens?

kk27

Hi can let me know how did you load routes on to it?? I've been successful in loading a Course & following them but never tried or came through loading routes as such. the idea of naming & warning on the turning and with auto backlight during the night time with the warning sounds very good.

La Tortue

This process has been a long steep learning curve for me. I still do not understand it well enough to explain what I'm doing. Perhaps some of the more technical folks can clarify the process for both of us. Essentially you need a .tcx file for a course or a .GPX file for a route. Understanding how to Transfer the file into the Garmin Training Center program has been the problem for me. I now use gsbabel to do this. But the way I finally got on the right track (pun intended) was from Frank Kinlan's tutorial. This will explain it much better than I can. I used the Marengo planner until the free trial expired. The Marengo program makes it easy. You simply make your route, name the waypoints, and download to the 305. Since my Marengo free trial expired I have learned to put the file in the Garmin Training Center program and you can change the words right left etc just as easy as Marengo. You can even rename the control waypoints to indicate food stops on the map. Sorry I can't give a step by step. You would think Garmin would provide this? Then again I suspect they would rather you not know so you upgrade to a higher GPS. These features really give the 305 a lot more bang for the buck than I suspect they intended. One other neat item is the Gomatic battery extender recommended to me by Marcello. Check it out here. It has given me more than enough juice to do the 400K.