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Brevet Costs

Old 11-22-10, 10:09 AM
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Brevet Costs

Hello guys i was invited to a 200km brevet this sunday....im very happy to participate This event is held by the San Juan Cycling Club. The event has a cost of 45 bucks including membership to RUSA if you finish the event. I hoped to pay the event on the start line, but i was wrong!

The organizer is using a website called "active.com" to register and pay for the event....when i fill up everything Active wants to charge me 5.00 more! IM SORRY BUT IM OUTRAGED!

A good friend of mine told me 2 weeks ago, that they were too expensive and roads are free..i didn't get it until now..specially after paying 400.00 plus hotel for "La Vuelta"in january....which is also an event from San juan Cycling.

I wonder why they use this active.com when they are such a big club, and why would they stay with the 20.00 for RUSA if i dont finish the brevet.


Is this price normal? am i overreacting?
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Old 11-22-10, 11:46 AM
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Entry fees for events recoup costs for putting them on whether entrants actually finsish the event or not. Setup costs will have to be paid whether anyone actually shows up on the day of the event or not. Insurance for running the event will need to be paid. Etc, etc, etc.

Some events have similar registration fees. Some are free for local club members. Kinda depends on what is included I would guess.

For example: The entry fee for the 2008 Rocky Mountain 1200 km was CAD $535.
The registration fee for Boston-Motreal-Boston is $25.00.
The Shenandoah 1200 fee is $200. (If you want to see what ROMA's fees for their shorter events are, check out https://www.romabrevet.org/Registration.html)

If the RUSA membership is included in the $45, then the event itself only has a $25 entrance fee - I assume - if you are already an RUSA member. You can join RUSA independently to ensure you aren't paying "double" if that's your worry.

One of the RUSA rules for organizers, I believe, is that only the sponsoring organizer's club riders and RUSA members may participate in the event - which is probably why they are "including" the RUSA membership fee as part of the registration. Finish/don't finish - at the end you'll still have a one-year paid membership in RUSA.

As for using active.com as the electronic registration portal, shrug. Never heard of them.

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Old 11-22-10, 12:09 PM
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5.00 is the charge that active.com charges for accepting payment and having the website to do this online transaction. It is their charge for their service. I find it expensive also and either try to find a discount code or send in a reg through the mail or plan on arriving early to the event to register. (Welcome to the world leaders in middleman service) however it isn't really fair to expect a club to maintain a website, card verifier and all the legalities to go along with it and not expect some kind of charge. It is expensive to accept credit cards and to maintain that infrastructure which is probably why active.com is the default for these groups and why it is so expensive.

Because it is a Brevet you have to be a member of RUSA which is your $20 fee. It is good for a year and is a one time cost if you aren't a member. If you were a member of RUSA already you shouldn't be charged that fee.

The remaining costs (whatever they are) usually go for organizing the ride, stops, any food, etc.
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Old 11-22-10, 12:51 PM
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Active.com is also used around here for a lot of the charity rides. I don't like paying extra, so I seldom use it. If you're there local, see if you can just run cash or a check by the someone's house.

If you're doing any long distance riding, RUSA membership is worthwhile on it's own. Handy hint: When I mailed in my check to RUSA, it took several 6 weeks to get a response back. But I showed up on the online membership search within a week, which is all I needed to confirm membership.

It was my understanding that riding RUSA permanents required RUSA membership, and riding in brevets required (at the option of the local club) membership in the local club but not necessarily RUSA membership.

Here locally again, the local club charges $20 or $25 a year membership, RUSA is similar, and the rides are free (sometimes there's a SAG fee on longer rides, seldom on a 200k). So it's a great deal for me, and I wouldn't ever be doing the same routes were it not for the groups involved.
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Old 11-22-10, 12:53 PM
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Yes, you're over-reacting.

Ever see Better Off Dead ?

Roads aren't free, someone gets taxed to pay for them. More pertinently, credit card processing fees aren't free either, and active.com is not a non-profit organization.

The club is most likely using active.com because it is much easier and more convenient for everyone. If they weren't using Active, they'd have to pay someone to prep a website, they'd have to pay for credit card processing and handle customer service issues, and chances are this would end up costing much more than $5 per rider.
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Old 11-22-10, 12:57 PM
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RUSA membership is required for brevet participation. It is $20 and is valid for one calendar year (i.e. January through December). My local randonneuring club requires club membership to participate in the brevets it runs. That costs another $10 and is also valid for a calendar year.

You don't have to use active.com to register for RUSA membership. Simply go to their website:
https://www.rusa.org/join.html

Our club has the same sort of mail-in-form-with-check for membership. Brevet fees are separate from these memberships. They are payable in advance or for ordinary brevets, at the start. There are also brevets called permanents which are not organized sanctioned rides and are usually done in small groups and do not have fees.
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Old 11-22-10, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
RUSA membership is required for brevet participation. .
RUSA membership is not required to ride a brevet.

Originally Posted by RUSA rules for riders
Article 2

These brevets are open to any amateur cyclist regardless of his or her cycling affiliations. Any rider under the age of 18 must have consent of his or her parent or legal guardian. Any form of human-powered vehicle is acceptable. The only stipulation is that the vehicle must be powered solely by the rider.
It is required if you want your rides to count for PBP, distance awards, etc.

Some permanents do have fees.
Some brevets have fees.

Check with the local RBA or rando group to find out specifics.
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Old 11-22-10, 01:54 PM
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Many thanx guys....5.00 bucks got my rebel blood pumping! I've emailed San Juan Cycling about this, hopefully they can accept cash. But i have a feeling this wont be the case.

I even thought, "lets just show up and ride, bring our own food" but then i rethink "nah, i do want to participate fully! i aspire to evolve from raodie to RANDONNE!"

San Juan cycling organizes La Vuelta Puerto Rico www.vueltapr.com . a great event that you guys could consider, sunny 86 degree weather in january . Their website's very well made and has very fast a reliable payment method, thats why i dont understand the use of active.com.

ps. Hammernutrition also started their winter sale....... why do i want to buy all this stuff?!!! crud mk2, a fluid trainer, a tool bag, a dyno, some nutrition supplements! going crazy guys!!

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Old 11-22-10, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by echotraveler
Many thanx guys....5.00 bucks got my rebel blood pumping! I've emailed San Juan Cycling about this, hopefully they can accept cash. But i have a feeling this wont be the case.

I even thought, "lets just show up and ride, bring our own food" but then i rethink "nah, i do want to participate fully! i aspire to evolve from raodie to RANDONNE!"
In the NE we have a $5 day of surcharge...
Its nice knowing how many to expect a few days before...
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Old 11-22-10, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bmike
RUSA membership is not required to ride a brevet.



It is required if you want your rides to count for PBP, distance awards, etc.

Some permanents do have fees.
Some brevets have fees.

Check with the local RBA or rando group to find out specifics.
RUSA membership is required to belong to any rando club which requires this concurrent membership for its own membership, such as mine. Therefore it is a de facto requirement by at least some rando clubs which run brevets, even though this requirement is not spelled out in the RUSA rules, as you point out. My club does not require club and RUSA membership for populaires, only for brevets of 200k and longer.

San Juan Cycling Club doesn't have a functioning website, so it's impossible to find out about their rules other than by phone calls. However, since the OP had to get an RUSA membership, I assume it's the same or similar.

I've never heard of a fee being required for a permanent, though I suppose it's possible for a club not to accept your card without a fee. And of course club and therefore possibly RUSA membership are required for the club to take and process your card for the permanent.

I've also never heard of an ACP brevet without a fee, though again I suppose it's possible for a wealthy club to simply waive the fees and pay the expenses itself.

One can certainly ride any brevet or permanent course at any time other then during an organized event, free of charge, solo or with friends, and just not submit a card or get credit for it. It's not quite as much fun, but it is at least as challenging, since there are no club manned controls or support at them. This is a great option for those who are attracted to these challenges but are repelled by the expenses.

Perhaps you could explain more clearly when and how you've seen fees charged and waived.
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Old 11-22-10, 03:23 PM
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[QUOTE=echotraveler;11826347....

I even thought, "lets just show up and ride, bring our own food" but then i rethink "nah, i do want to participate fully! i aspire to evolve from raodie to RANDONNE!"
...[/QUOTE]

You pretty much have to bring your own food anyway, you know. It's not a century, you are self-supporting. At least, that's how it is in the local brevet club here.
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Old 11-22-10, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by valygrl
You pretty much have to bring your own food anyway, you know. It's not a century, you are self-supporting. At least, that's how it is in the local brevet club here.
this brevets have stops with water and fruit, every certain miles, i still bring a sneakers bar and a cliff or some gel

I contacted the organizer thru facebook...lets see what he has to say...a couple of friends and myself would like to pay cash upon registration.


A good friend just told me i could get disqualified for drafting another cyclist...i didn't see that rule on RUSA...
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Old 11-22-10, 04:45 PM
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If you do enter through Active.com do not check any extra boxes, answer any surveys or respond to anything on their website. I did one of the foregoing items (not sure which one ) and ended up with a subscription to Bicycling that they charged to my credit card. It was nearly impossible to contact anyone to remove the subscription or charge. I complained to Cascade Bicycle Club which were holding the event and they had so much trouble and so many complaints that they were going to drop Active for ride signup.
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Old 11-22-10, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by echotraveler
Many thanx guys....5.00 bucks got my rebel blood pumping! I've emailed San Juan Cycling about this, hopefully they can accept cash. But i have a feeling this wont be the case.
The value of active.com to the club is that the club doesn't have to deal with the painful payment details and doesn't have to have the risk of storing credit card numbers.

The credit card companies take a fee. So does paypal. Active.com is a business too and takes a fee. I looked into it and it appears that the transaction costs (outside of active.com's fee) is about $2-3. It would cost you $0.50 to mail them something and $0.50 to have them mail you something back.

Originally Posted by echotraveler
this brevets have stops with water and fruit, every certain miles,
This costs the club money and having money up-front (and knowing how many people are going to show up) reduces the complications for running an event. That is, people who show up at the last minute are hard to support.

Keep in mind that the clubs (typically) are run by volunteers. It makes some sense to make their jobs easier (and things like using active.com can do that) even if it costs a little bit extra.

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Old 11-22-10, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by echotraveler
this brevets have stops with water and fruit, every certain miles, i still bring a sneakers bar and a cliff or some gel

I contacted the organizer thru facebook...lets see what he has to say...a couple of friends and myself would like to pay cash upon registration.


A good friend just told me i could get disqualified for drafting another cyclist...i didn't see that rule on RUSA...
My club will usually have a few controls with water and some limited food, depending on brevet length. This is regarded as extra, and nothing that one should depend on. Frequently these are secret controls that are unannounced anyway. Most of our controls are in populated areas at stores or bakeries so that one can resupply while getting one's card signed.

One cannot be disqualified for drafting. Many, if not most riders travel in small groups which form and reform as the brevet goes on.

I don't like active.com, either.
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Old 11-22-10, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by echotraveler
...A good friend just told me i could get disqualified for drafting another cyclist...i didn't see that rule on RUSA...
Sorry, your good friend is wrong. He must be thinking of a ultra distance race or some such thing. Riding together is what randoneuring is all about.
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Old 11-22-10, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
RUSA membership is required to belong to any rando club which requires this concurrent membership for its own membership, such as mine.

...

I've never heard of a fee being required for a permanent, though I suppose it's possible for a club not to accept your card without a fee. And of course club and therefore possibly RUSA membership are required for the club to take and process your card for the permanent.

...

I've also never heard of an ACP brevet without a fee, though again I suppose it's possible for a wealthy club to simply waive the fees and pay the expenses itself.

Perhaps you could explain more clearly when and how you've seen fees charged and waived.
You do not need to be a RUSA member to ride a brevet. For it to 'count', yes, RUSA membership is required. I do think you are correct that to be a member of a local rando club, RUSA membership is required.

After a quick search I've found quite a few permanents that charge anywhere from $5 to $10 to $25 (BMB being at $25). Guess it depends on the length and the region.

I'm pretty sure some of the east coast riders have monthly 200k brevets (not sure if they are ACP) that you can ride just by showing up and signing the waiver.

(*Edit - checking the PA Randonneurs it looks like they are $10 a ride)
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Old 11-22-10, 08:59 PM
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Pa Randonneurs are $10 per 200k, but you have to be a Pa Randonneurs member, which is $30 per year. RUSA membership is not required. This year there was a free Pa Randonneurs 200k, which was good because the weather was awful, 15 degrees and 30 mph winds gusting to 50 mph.

BTW, it is against the rules to draft another cyclist that is not participating on a brevet. I've always figured that drafting dump trucks was fair game though.
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Old 11-22-10, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen

I've always figured that drafting dump trucks was fair game though.
Only when they are starting up at a light. More than a 1/8 mile later and they usually pull ahead...
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Old 11-22-10, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
...it is against the rules to draft another cyclist that is not participating on a brevet. I've always figured that drafting dump trucks was fair game though.
I believe that comes under the rule that says you're not allowed to have aid from a non-participant.

On the second night of RM1200k I drafted a Semi going down Kicking Horse Pass , got up to 105km/hr. Lots of fun!

btw, BMB has been dead for a number of years now so I don't know if it's very accurate to compare the cost of the that ride.
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Old 11-22-10, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Homeyba

btw, BMB has been dead for a number of years now so I don't know if it's very accurate to compare the cost of the that ride.
BMB is a permanent now. $25 gets you the cues and a date to ride. The original 1200k was far more expensive than that...
There is a group that is planning to ride it next year.

https://bmb2011permanent.wordpress.com/

Its on the RUSA permanent search as well...
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Old 11-22-10, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bmike
BMB is a permanent now...
Ok, that makes sense now because my faded memory didn't remember it costing only $25 either. I didn't know they made it a permanent. I found it unfortunate that Jennifer couldn't find a suitable person to take the ride over. My BMB gloves are worn out, I was quite fond of them and could use a new pair.
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Old 11-23-10, 10:56 AM
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The organizer William Medina explained that early entry is very important to him, because logistics could get pretty crazy if he dependend on word alone. He mentioned his had brevets were 10 people show up, or up to 200...not having enough supplys or support could be fatal to the organizers. He also told me they dont profit from this event because of permits and insurances. I registered using the website, but William said they could accept cash upon arrival with a 5 upcharge.

Im reading on RUSA.org, its very informative yet all the abreviations are a bit confusing at first
RUSA
RBA
ACP
Permanent...etc

from RUSA:
Can a person do a brevet series without joining RUSA?
Absolutely. The ACP's rules specifically state that participation in a brevet is not contingent on any affiliation. We at RUSA are dedicated to encouraging randonneuring by anyone, no matter what their affiliation or nationality. For example, imagine a British rider with a busy work-related travel schedule trying to earn his SR medal. He could do a brevet in England, one in France, another in America, and his final one in Canada. The results from all the various events go to the ACP in France, which issues brevets numbers validating a BRM ride. Once each ride is validated by the ACP, the approved card(s) with the validating brevet sticker is returned to the rider. One's national affiliation is not a consideration in these matters, nor where they did their brevets. What matters most is that they be ACP-approved BRM brevets and that the rider successfully finished each event inside the appropriate time limit, as noted on their brevet card.
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Old 11-23-10, 03:39 PM
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ACP = Audax Club Parisien
BRM = Brevets Randonneurs Mondiaux
PBP = Paris-Brest-Paris

The ACP devised the "randonneur" formula of brevet. It has been running PBP as a randonneur brevet since 1931. It also acts as the clearing house/registry for all brevets. Each brevet completion is assigned a unique number by the ACP.

In 1983, the ACP realized that the randonneur movement had become international in scope. The BRM was created to coordinate randonneur brevets outside France. Prior to that, individuals and individual clubs registered for PBP directly with the ACP. This was a monumental headache in the days before the internet and faxes.

There was also some question regarding the adherence to brevet rules for some foreign rides. The BRM acting through national federations, like RUSA, is supposed to ensure that brevets outside France follow the same rules as those inside France.
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Old 11-23-10, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
RUSA membership is required for brevet participation. It is $20 and is valid for one calendar year (i.e. January through December). My local randonneuring club requires club membership to participate in the brevets it runs. That costs another $10 and is also valid for a calendar year.

You don't have to use active.com to register for RUSA membership. Simply go to their website:
https://www.rusa.org/join.html

Our club has the same sort of mail-in-form-with-check for membership. Brevet fees are separate from these memberships. They are payable in advance or for ordinary brevets, at the start. There are also brevets called permanents which are not organized sanctioned rides and are usually done in small groups and do not have fees.
RUSA membership is _not_ required to ride a brevet. It _is_ required to ride a permanent. Many clubs require membership to ride one of their events, mainly because this keeps insurance costs down.

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