RogerB

I used to be really frustrated by all this, but I did some serious evaluation of my core values. Bottom line is childhood is fleeting. The schedule challenges I face now are temporary. On my death bed, I would rather reflect on the times I spent with my Wife and Kids than reflect on the time I missed with them because I was off riding.

Meanwhile I can still fit it in and maintain my contact with it. I think I can achieve a 200k in the next couple of years, but I haven't cemented that goal, yet.

The successful riders here are a constant source of inspiration for me.

icyclist 

If there's a smaller number of long distance riders when it comes to organized 100 mile rides, at least in California, I haven't seen it. Having driven - doh! - up from Los Angeles today, to Chico, California, in Northern California, I know I'm going to be in the company of 3,999 other cyclists, in a sold out event. It was the same with my long distance rides last year, sell-outs.

stlutz

If you don't live in CA, oftentimes the only events > 100 mi. in length are brevets (TX seems to have a number of 24 hour events). For me the turnoff of the whole rando culture is the the view that it's okay to compete on miles but not on time. If you say you were happy that you did the 400K in XX:YY or that you were the 5th finisher or that you beat so-and-so is a huge no-no. But if you do 5 billion miles in a year, then everyone is supposed to bow down to you as if you are God.

The brevet world used to not be this way--they used to be more accepting of the fact that people had different goals and nobody got judged for their approach to riding. Now, there is there is definitely a right way to rando (tons of miles at a slow pace) and a wrong way to rando (fewer miles, focusing on good performance at selected events).

So, I'd like to see more ultra events for people who are more performance/event focused. That would certainly bring a younger contingent in that does seem to be missing nowadays.

unterhausen

I don't think this is generally the case amongst all randonneurs. The local RBA always mentions the first finisher and personal bests

StephenH

I don't really see that around here. Some of the people that do a ton of miles are fast, some are not. Some of the fastest people doing brevets around here are also in triathlons or UMCA racing or whatnot and just view the brevets as training rides and do them as kind of a sideline, and that's fine with everyone. Of the people I know who seem to be excellent riders, some of them are friendly and very helpful, others are exactly the opposite, so it's a pretty good mix of different kinds of people.

The biggest issue I notice on speed is that a lot of the brevet rides are social events if you're moving the same speed as a group. If you're going faster, you may be riding by yourself, but at least you'll have a choice. If you're going slower, you're riding by yourself and don't have a choice, and that's kind of a bummer.

The 24-hour-type races around here mostly attract local rando riders and out-of-state riders. On the shorter distances, you'll get local roadies that are very good. (I did the 12 hour TTTT last year, and the winner was a local guy I'd never seen before.) But there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest among non-rando riders for long races in this area.

The age issue is an interesting point. But I'm 50 right now, the local rando group is full of 50-ish people, so that's actually to my benefit, and one of the neater things about the club. As long as new people are coming in, it doesn't much matter if you mainly attract one age group- if you stop picking up new people, then you have an issue after a while. If you go to the local races, it's mainly younger people, and there's nothing wrong with that. Or go to Critical Mass or some of the other more hip rides, and you'll see similar lack of age distribution, and that's fine too.

lonesomesteve

Hmm, apparently I'm randonneuring in the wrong way. I wonder why nobody has ever corrected me...

unterhausen

there are a couple of very vocal people on the randon mailing lists that disparage trying to ride brevets fast. I don't think that really affects the way most RBA's run their brevets. Having said that, someone that wants to ride fast might want to tell the RBA ahead of time.

colinmcnamara

The cool thing about randonnuering is that it is a wide umbrella. I have ridden with people that want to set a course record, people who want to do a personal best, and people who just want to squeek it in under the cut off. Luckily, these events tend to be self selecting. If you want to ride fast, you will likely be surrounded with other fast people. If you want to ride slow, there are plenty of those people also. At the end of the day we are all just out there having fun riding our bikes.

--Colin

Rowan

There is slightly more to it than just informing the RBA or ride organiser. There is a restriction on the opening times of checkpoints, so there is no point in setting a TdF pace and arriving before the checkpoint opens.

One of the other issues that may have upset the fast riders is, that as a result of the cheating that occurred in PBP2003, the ACP changed how it recognised the first finishers... by not recognising them.

After the 2003 event and the penalties applied to the cheaters, here was a campaign waged by at least one of thm to have their "achievements" recognised. To me, it was a tacky attempt and they got what they deserved.

The fast riders also were gaining rapidly a reputation for being boorish with checkpoint officials as they strove to save every second.

There also have been some efforts by the fast riders in some areas across the world to polarise the randonneur community by campaigning for the 15km/h minimum average speed for events up to 600km to be increased. Basically, their self-perceived superior fitness and riding skills meant that anyone below that standard had no business in the sport.

Luckily, it appears there appears to some prepared to vocalise resistance to those efforts.

unterhausen

my comment about telling the RBA was made in full awareness of opening times. Around here, you have to be riding in a group of well-organized elite riders to hit the controles before the opening times, and even then it seems unlikely. PBP still publishes the finishing order. It probably was good form to stop having an awards ceremony though.

Homeyba

This is what happens when you get people involved... Rowan, I think you should clarify that it wasn't "the fast" riders that caused all the hub-bub in 03 it was a minority of the fastest riders... Jan Heine was in that group for a lot of that ride as well as some friends of mine. As usual, all it takes is a few bad apples to screw it up for everyone and it works on all ends of the spectrum.

Back in my younger years the RBA's never payed attention to opening times at the controls. I'm not totally sure but opening times may be a fairly recent addition to the rules (I could be wrong). The first time I even remember any ride enforcing opening times was in 2001 when we had to sit and wait for 30+ minutes for the control to open on a 1200k. Back in 98 I remember doing the first 200k of a 600k in 4:45. They certainly weren't enforcing opening times then.

People do brevets for different reasons. Some people like to challenge themselves for their personal fastest times, be it a sub 50hr 1200k or a sub 90hr 1200k. Others just enjoy the ride. I'm usually in that camp. It's definitely not a race, that's what races are for. I have no problem with opening time restrictions or closing time restrictions and feel the current ones are just fine.

robertkat

This is a very valid point here. I think it's standard for all events. On our local 400k in March, we had a couple guys set the best time at 17 hours, on down to a few people squeaking in just under the cut-off. I actually like to see people get out and challenge themselves. Every year our local group usually does a 200 or 300k that runs up the coast and back to finish off the season. There is always a bunch of us on SS/FG bike that go all out. Personally, I think it would be wonderful to revive the "technical trials" of the 60's. So many frame builders are also very involved in racing, so it only makes sense. However it seems to me that to increase the average speed that times are based on is contrary to the spirit of "allure libre" that modern randonneuring is based on. Some of the best rides I've done have been at a slower pace enjoying the scenery and company of my fellow riders. I think the control times are pretty generous.

In regards to notifying the RBA about wanting to go faster: I don't see anything wrong with that. As I understand it, one can register for PBP in a special category that allows one to bypass opening control times in an attempt to challenge the course record with the understanding that it is a sincere effort and you will finish the ride regardless. I see no reason why one couldn't do that at the local level, assuming that all controls are accounted for and the route is followed and ridden according to the rules. Although if you considering the opening times for controls, and you think they aren't open early enough, you might want to stick to racing.

clasher

I was thinking about joining the ontario rando club but I don't own a helmet so I can't ride with them. Eventually I would like to get some shiny pins so I'll suck it up one day. For now I've got my own 200 and 300K rides figured out and am working toward them (hooray for lay-offs from work) Shiny pins aside, I am not sure what else I have to gain by joining a club (I'm a bit of a misanthropic curmudgeon so friends ain't gonna cut it)

surreycrv 

Of the 2 Randonnée for me so far, I've spent a majority of the time solo, either from getting dropped on the hills, or lower level of fitness on the long windy sections. The pins are a nice bonus, but the people who attend the events are what make them pleasant. If you'd never interact with people, then I can't see a reason to join the event, its easy enough to obtain a cue sheet from the internet (most clubs post their permanents online) and just go off and ride.

As I improve my fitness though, I look forward to riding with the group(s) during the events. To each his own though.

StephenH

If you start figuring in costs for the bicycle, for driving to the start point, for motels, for food on the way, a helmet is a pretty insignificant expense.

There are multiple reasons to be involved in randonneuring. One is the routes, one is the recognition, one is the people. Personally, the rides I've ridden with other people were far more enjoyable than the solo rides I've done. You can also learn a lot from other people, more so than just on the internet.

Richard Cranium

A lot of interesting comments. The one thing that always comes up with respect to brevets is the differences between those just trying to finish and those with the capacity to "race" the route.

And part of that is what I intended this topic to be about. Of course, the PBP and brevets are attracting interest, but as a measure of the public's "radar" the idea of "century riding" or 12 or 24 hour events has never come along like so many other crazy extreme sports.

And again, I guess this just happens to where your at. I know CA and some Metro areas are doing great, the midwest - not so much.

lonesomesteve

I find it puzzling that this debate about fast randonneuring vs. just-trying-to-make-the-cutoffs-and-finish-the-route randonneuring comes up on the internet all the time. I've seen it here multiple times, on the randon google group and in other forums. Yet it never seems to come up when I'm riding in a brevet or hanging out with other randonneurs in the real world. And it's not that I only hang out with one type of rider. I've ridden with the lead group (until I get spit out the back), I've ridden near the back, and I've spent some time in the middle. While on the road everyone just seems to be out having a good time trying to achieve their own goals, be they making friends, setting personal bests or just finishing the ride. Might there be a vocal but tiny minority on either end of the spectrum stirring things up just for fun?

Machka 

I've encountered it "in the real world". One of the clubs I rode with in Canada was all about raising the minimum speed in order to get rid of the slow riders. They were vocal about it on our little local forum and in our club meetings. They may have been vocal about it on the road too. I don't know. I was the slow rider and didn't have a hope of riding with them to find out what they talked about.

They all raced and looked at randonneuring as a way to get some base miles in. They didn't ride randonneuring events for the sake of doing the events. If we had an annual 24-hour race (or several) in that area, they probably would have done that instead of randonneuring ... and maybe that needs to be an option. Maybe there needs to be more 12 and 24-hour races.

And actually, in thinking about it ... there wasn't even an annual century in that area. I found that quite surprising, and maybe if there had been an annual century (and maybe double century) which these guys could race, it would have taken some of the pressure off the desire for speed when randonneuring.

RogerB

I don't get why fast riders would care. We're not in their way, after all.

surreycrv 

The race vs ride stuff got me thinking about 2 specific situations that occurred recently. The first was on a solo ride, I met another rider at a joining intersection, and he tucked in behind on the long stretch out of town. He never said a word for the 5 or so km he was drafting. As I slowed he pulled beside, let loose a big grin, and pulled away. eh, whatever, it's a nice Sunday afternoon. I made a small stop to look at a building and then after climbing a grade, there's buddy on the side of the road with a flat, karma I thought as I rode by.

The second was on a 300km event, in almost the same area. A fellow participant pulled in behind me after a light had changed, this was in the first 50km. Well its part of the ride to sometimes pace line, I had no issues with pulling first. As I slowed, he takes off on a big sprint to attack the road. Now my mind is going WTF********** Further down the highway another light had stopped him, and as I approached, just had to ask the idiot what hell was his problem. He just stares at me, then, "Its going to be a windy day" and takes off.

Now I have a new idea, you pull first or get lost. I see no good reason to aide the speed freaks. Its not a race, its a ride.

Homeyba

I don't get why fast riders would care or why slow riders would care but for some reason they both do. It's really only a logistics problem for the organizers. If you think about a 1200k you have riders finishing in sub 50hrs versus riders finishing in 90hrs. That's almost two full days difference between the fastest and the slowest riders at the end of the ride meaning they have to have controls open for 2 full days. The problem isn't so extreme on shorter rides but even on a 600k it can be the better part of a day. I've worked controls on the back side of a 600k and it's a very long time between the first and last riders.

Homeyba

Those people aren't racing, they're just rude. I've rarely run into that on brevets. I do remember one guy who was famous for sucking wheel and never pulling. He wasn't particularly fast, just rude.

unterhausen

I've had the discussion with people about taking pulls or not. There are a few U.S. riders that are notorious for sitting in until they take off. But if someone never pulls, it might be because they don't want to get dropped. That happens all the time, someone takes a long pull and then gets dropped. I'd rather be riding with people. I've more often had the problem that randonneurs refuse to sit on my wheel, even when I'm trying to match their speed. When I'm not feeling that great, I hope people will let me sit on, it's not like I'm hurting them. Then again, when I really don't feel that great, I'd rather have people leave me behind. I'm perfectly happy riding alone.

Machka 

My thoughts exactly!!!

Machka 

Yes, the logistics for the organisers is the issue when it comes to minimum and maximum speeds. As a slow cyclist, I really don't care if there are some who want to do the rides fast. They go off the front and are gone in the distance, and I do my ride at my pace. I care when they start talking about raising the minimum speed ..... like it makes any difference to them.

One of the ways to help with the logistics is to set the slower riders off first, and then set the faster riders off a hour or two later. I rode several of my randonnees in Canada like that ... I'd leave at 5 am, and the faster riders would leave at 7 am ... and at some point down the road, they'd catch and pass me, and I would come in only a couple hours behind them. Not that it really mattered because we never had manned controls, but if we did, it would be easier on the organisers and it gave me a chance to ride with other riders for a few minutes in the middle of my ride.