Sekhem

Greetings Everybody!
I'm confused about what to do over the winter to prepare for next season.

Chapple's book: Base training for cyclists and others describe off season riding as the ideal time to maintain aerobic fitness: this means slow rides of limited intensity. Above all it emphasizes the importance of backing off during off seasons and avoiding hard training.

Over the winter of 2009 I ramped up, riding a 200k almost every weekend, did interval work and strength training midweek and generally worked my butt off (and had frost bite in both feet as a reward). I went on to ride my first brevet season: 2 SRs and a 1200K. At the end of the season (and after about 10,000 miles) I was completely burned out and had deep tissue injury to my leg muscles from overtraining. Last winter I scaled the mileage way back and and focused on slow aerobic rides but maintained the gym work. This last season was a great disappointment. I started the season struggling because I didn't have an adequate fitness base to support ramping up rapidly from a 200K to a 600K inside of 6 weeks. My speed and endurance was poor throughout the season and didn't seem to respond to training. My best climbing speed is around 20% less than it was last year. I DNF'ed several rides- the wheels just fell of the apple card and i couldn't finish the ride. My 1200K was a disaster. Things seemed to get worse as the season progressed. I'm franky pretty miserable.

The whole thing has leff me dreading the coming year. I want to pencil in the Cascade1200K as my target ride next year but I'm not sure how to get there from here. That ride will be the hardest event to date for me. The worry wort in me thinks I should be ramping up training for it now. The nerve damage in my frost bitten feet thinks no way in heck can I handle massive miles through the colorado winter again.

Is there another way to approach this? I don't think that the traditional dogma around basetraining necessarily applies to preparing for stupidly long/hard events like 1200K and longer rides.
thanks in advance for your ideas

Machka 

No it doesn't. LSD doesn't mean Long Slow Distance ... it means Long Steady Distance. In other words the fastest speed you can maintain over a long distance.

So how about a happy medium between your two methods?

Instead of 200K each week, try a 200K once a month between November and March? One of the reasons I like the CAM Challenge is because it keeps me motivated to do at least one long ride each month.

And once or twice a week, do some short intensity work ... join a tough spinning class, or do intervals on your trainer for an hour or so.

If you can, commute to work by bicycle year round. Some days you might want to ride briskly, other days you might want to take it easy.

And then mix it up a bit ... go cross country skiing, walk long distances, go to the gym, take a yoga class, go snowshoeing, go snowbiking with your mountain bike, swim, row, etc. etc.


When is the Cascade 1200K? Isn't it July or August next year?? What do you mean you think you should be ramping up your training now??? That's one way to burn out.

Machka 

BTW - here is my article with tips for keeping your feet warm when cycling in cold weather ... mostly based on my experiences riding through the winter in places like Winnipeg and central Alberta.

Cold Feet
https://www.machka.net/whatworks/coldfeet.htm


And also, here are my distance charts over the years.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/machka-...321906/detail/

My best years of Randonneuring were 2002 - 2005. I did an SR series and 1200K each of those years. You can see the quantity of cycling I did those years, and how it was distributed throughout the year. Keep in mind that I lived in Winnipeg in 2002, 2003, and most of 2004 (then I went to Australia for 3 months at the end of 2004 for a 1200K and a cycling tour), and I was in central Alberta in 2005. So I definitely had winter conditions to deal with.

Homeyba

I've always been of the philosophy that if you train slow you will be slow. You don't have to train to be the fastest guy out there but you need to have speed training to complete rides like the C1200k in a reasonable time with reasonable sleep. Any reasonable base mileage is fine. What is more important than the quantity of your training is the quality of your training...

Steamer

A few articles that I found to be pretty "profound". Well, as profound as a cycling training article can be.

https://biketechreview.com/performanc...new-definition
https://www.adventurecorps.com/way/fivemistakes.html

StephenH

Around here, people just keep on riding.

Our Alaska member has been known to fly south for some warmer cycling.

By the way, there's no law that says you have to do a 1200k. I've done one, it was quite the experience, but it's not something I want to do twice a year from now on out, either. I'm out to have fun, and that doesn't always mean doing the most challenging rides I can find.

unterhausen

as Homey says, you don't have to train a lot of miles to do well at distance. I get worn down if I ride too many 200k. I don't really see it as an accomplishment anymore, and it takes me 3-4 days to recover. And they usually don't make me faster. I got a lot faster this summer riding 25-30 miles of tempo per day. And I didn't really do speed training because of health issues. There are lots of racers that are faster than almost any randonneur I know that ride no more than 20 hours a week. Although I have to say that PBP made me faster.

plodderslusk

Thor Hushovd had one of his late autumn training weeks in the paper the other day. He rode every day of that week, a total of 570 miles + some strength work. Almost all of it was ridiculously slow, 16-18 mph, considering he probably did a lot of with other riders. Converted to my age and fitness that would probably be 12 - 14 mph average. It probably is a good idea to try and do it his way to build a solid base, but the idea of riding very very slowly in well below freezing for hours on end does not appeal to me. (Hushovd does not live in Norway, he lives in Monaco where the winters are quite a bit better.)

unterhausen

when I was younger, I went to Florida for spring training. We did a lot of miles, 700 or more a week. I could have kept doing that for a long time, but I also spent a lot of time sleeping. I assume the OP is also working a full work week, and that makes all the difference.

Machka 

Regarding going to warmer climates ... this year we did a bit of warmer climate winter training when we went to Canada in August! Winters here in this part of Australia are usually quite chilly and very rainy, and although we could ride year round, the cold rain is quite unpleasant, even if we're dressed for it. So we headed for Canada and cut winter short! We spent 3 weeks cycling there, including doing our August century. It was lovely doing the August century in warm temperatures with long daylight hours.

When I lived in Canada, I took time off from winter now and then, and rode in warmer areas ... did a 400K fleche in BC around Easter in 2004 when Winnipeg was still pretty chilly. Spent 3 months in Australia at the end of 2004 and did a lot of cycling. In 2007, I went to Vancouver Island to attempt Hell Week in early April when central Alberta was still knee-deep in snow. In 2008, I returned to Australia and again did a lot of cycling.

I highly recommend going to a warmer place in winter for a couple weeks ... and getting in a lot of cycling.

The Octopus 

When I lived someplace where there was "winter," I'd focus on doing other things in life for a while. I'd ski a lot. Work more.

I'd commute by bike when I could, and not worry about it when I couldn't. I'd try to talk some fellow nutters into riding a century once a month. We'd ride super slow and easy. Have a leisurely sit-down meal mid-ride. It'd pretty much take all daylight hours (weren't many of 'em that time of year) to get around. In months when the skiing was really, really good, I might be lucky to have 200 miles for the whole month logged.

We'd have friends over one night a week. Everyone would bring their trainer. We'd move the furniture in the living room, set up some big fans, put on one of those Chris Carmichael training videos, and try to kill ourselves. Once or twice a winter we'd have people over and set up the trainers and watch the all of the LOTR, Star Wars, Matrix, or Man-With-No-Name movies back-to-back. You know... wacky fun stuff.

Anyway, by the time the "season" rolled around, we were still in good physical shape. Definitely some winter rust to knock off, but no damage had been done in the "off" season. And mentally we were just dying to get out there and ramp things back up and just kill it. I think if I'd been trying to do a 200K a week, I'd have been totally burned out by the time the "season" rolled around.

Now I live some place very warm -- no such thing as an off-season and, sadly, no local skiing -- and I've got young kids. Long training rides are totally out the window for me. The only long rides I do now are "events." Training for me is something that takes place in 40-mile rides. And I'm now religious about getting my commute in, no matter the weather, because those miles are critical (and a lot of fun!). Turns out this hasn't affected my long riding ability at all. Arguably, I'm a stronger long rider now than I was years ago. It's not so much the time you put in as how well you're using that time.... and having some down time to rest and recover and recharge is critically important to making your "training time" count for something.

skiffrun

I haven't been doing LONG rides all that long, but I agree with Stephen, have FUN, summer or winter, camaraderie or steady-fast-ride or interval based ride or whatever.


I am certainly not among the fast-crew, but I endeavor to have fun on all my rides. The fun can come from different angles.

This year, I did my 200 brevet in a fast-for-me 8h,31; the last 85+ miles were solo; I had fun.

My 300 brevet was over two hours slower than I had planned / hoped. Why? A buddy was bonking badly. A third buddy and I "nursed" him home with a slower pace, extra stops, extra LONG stops. It was fun.

My 400 was an hour or two longer than I planned / hoped. I had a period of struggling; a buddy was a bit bonkish for awhile; I needed a 20 minute nap only 15 miles from the finish. I rode all day with three other guys; most of the day with a fourth; the first half with a fifth; we all had fun -- even the guy whose bonk was coming on again as we finished.

On my 600, I was two to four hours slower than planned / hoped. I had a couple flats; a guy in the group I was riding with had a flat; my buddy Robert had no legs for several reasons, and I decided ... before the ride began ... that he was getting through that 600 and qualify for PBP ... even if I had to carry him. I pulled him and "pushed" him the whole way. At the end ... I had my ACP SR ... he had his PBP qualification ... we each had fun. There are more details to why slower ... but they would get tedious to read. The key, I think, is having fun.


Not every ride is fun. I did a Permanent near the end of August ... on a beautiful severe clear day, my shoulder and neck were hurting enough that all I saw all day was the asphalt just ahead of me; it was decidedly not fun -- but I decided early on, before starting really, I was going to finish the route; the only good thing about that ride that day was that the guy who rode with me got in his R-ride after having had bronchitis most of the month -- we had thought I'd be helping him through the ride -- turned out to be the reverse. And I finished 6 minutes slower than I had just eight days earlier on the same when I had been the strong-one, and had helped two others that had struggled mightily. One of those two was our local RBA; Alan had no legs for anything with even a hint of UP in it on that day, but gosh his stories from brevets past, and his stories from his days as a submariner are fun to listen to.

Btw, I do like it when I can maintain "fast" (by my standards) for the entire ride. One week ago today, I did the same Permanent referred to in the previous paragraph ... a little more than 2 hours faster than the two tours described. It was great fun zipping in the last 23 or 30 miles; sometimes the fun comes from speed, but not usually.


I've gone past being tedious.

Carbonfiberboy 

As Carmichael says, "You'll never have a longer runway than right now." I always start my next season's training about Oct. 1. From now until mid-January or so I work mostly on pedaling efficiency and strength. Rollers and the gym. Considerable time on the StepMill. Snowshowing. Skiing. Spin class. One outside "long ride" a week, of only about 60 miles, but with a lot of hard climbing in it. I'm in the PNW, so that's a good combination of staying in condition and keeping the bike maintenance and burn-out factor down. I shoot for about 120 miles/week and about 10 hours, counting the gym work and all. I don't do mega rides, not even a century. I work on getting faster without the stress. Then when it's time to start the season ramp-up in January, I'm already fairly fast and strong. I don't start with long miles until March and don't do structured intervals until April. So for now, I mostly work on being efficient and comfortable on the bike. Don't want neck, arm, shoulder, back, knee, hip problems, etc., so not just leg strength work.

Rowan

No tedious at all. Keep your yarns coming, skiffrun, they are fun to read!

ronocnikral

this will be my first "real" winter in a while. Sure, last year in Houston I just slung a leg the good ol' fashion way and got on with my business. of course, i did have a 200k perm in freezing temps for a bit. But, now that I live in SLC, things will be much different. I will have my 15 or so miles roundtrip every day for my commute be the anchor on my bike. Since we bought a house on the side of the mountain, I will have that to scale at the end of the day for good measure. other than that, i plan to buy telemark skis. I may even try to talk the new RBA here in SLC into doing a winter 200k...oh, and I have 20 lbs or so to shed. that will do more wonders than riding all through winter.

my family talks a lot about me getting burned out on cycling. I guess burnout happens when I stop having fun. It's nice to wake up and want to ride a bike. Why ruin that?

Road Fan

I agree with Rowan! If we were now in a pub, we'd be buying you drinks to keep you going.

skiffrun

1. Where would this pub be? Ann Arbor? Or would you consider Champaign-Urbana? Gosh, I haven't been to either locale in ... a long, long time.

2. If you were to find and read my blog, you wouldn't be buying me drinks to keep me going ... you'd likely be buying me drinks hoping I would pass out and stop.

Road Fan

Urpaign would take some planning on my part. Are you due to hit either Big 10 venue in the foreseeable future? How about Evanston, Il? If you're bringing your bike, it needs to be soon.

Or maybe we'll both travel to Oz, where we'll try to get Rowan to buy.

downtube42

I ride my unicycle offroad and run a bit. Unicycling is a good core workout, cardio workout, spinning practice, and great for balance. Cold isn't an issue because speeds are slow. I commute by bike but that's only 6 mi/day. In the spring I'm in decent shape, but more importantly I'm raring to get on the bike.

But then I've only done one 1200k, and I'm not fast.

Machka 

It's spring here ... the weather is getting better and the daylight hours are getting longer. November is usually a nice month in this part of the world ... that would be a good month for a visit.

Rowan

Yep, happy to buy to chew the fat on some good rando stories!

Which, of course, doesn't really help Sekhem in the quest for answers to the question.

But you do know that in each story there is a kernel of information that can be a revelation.

Road Fan

True, my bad for derailing it so far, but sometimes it's too much fun!

I'm very interested in how it develops, also being a person with a Northern winter.

skiffrun

We always referred to it as Champoo-Banana. Actually, that was probably just my one friend, Tom. I've lost touch with Tom -- I wonder where he is now.

Anyway, "Urpaign" ... never knew how other Big-10 types might have referred to the "town".

I don't expect I'll be up Big 10 way for quite some time. Unless a relative crosses over the bridge.

Evanston? I did some bicycle riding in Chicago a long time ago (when I lived there) ... a previous lifetime. When I bring my steed north with me, it is to visit my hometown and relatives in the NW part of Illinois -- and I'll ride some when there, visiting childhood stomping grounds. Sometimes it is really SAD when I ride by the locations of things no-longer-there.

Cycling in the Chicago area. I shudder just to type that. Recalling experiences from long ago, the FLAT, and the traffic.

This is representative of what I prefer riding these days.

Road Fan

My parents went to U of I and they called it "Urpaign," so I lernt it. I went to Northwestern, and here in the land of Wolverines I have no connection to the U. The Stadium is too close to my house on game days, except when Northwestern is gonna clobber Michigan.

I grew up in Chicago and rode my big boy bike on the streets since 10 years old, so it's in my soul. Evanston is a lot like Chi, urban and not suburban. Not bad riding. Regarding flats, you just have to look for the glass. Regarding FLAT, you come to love the wind. There's a path from the North Side all the way down at least to the Museum of Science and Industry (30 mi round trip), along Lake Michigan all the way. For you foreigners, that's a little piddly fresh water splashing pool (i.e. Great Lake) 50 miles across, 400 miles long from N to S, and has 10 foot waves at the shore and 20 to 30 foot sea conditions in the middle. I'm going to guess a bit, but there are at least 2500 ships at the bottom of Lake Michigan, dating back to 1679, and the database is still being updated. The park land along the Chicago shore is ALL public where this ride runs, a feature nearly unique to Chicago. There are also paths from Chicago all the way into Wisconsin and, on the WI state highways, anywhere in that state. A cyclist with time can have a lot of fun.

Much of Michigan is about as good. Our roads are not great, but I can't compare them to the roads anywhere else. Around Ann Arbor there are several hundred miles of pretty nice ones. Our main local club, the Ann Arbor Bicycle Touring Society, operates a few hundred weekly and special rides per year, and even has or had a few active RUSA members. But no local brevets or even populaires, except in Ohio or perhaps in Ontario.

skiffrun

^

The last four years I lived/worked in Chicago ('81-'85), I lived in Mayfair. Dated a gal that lived in Rogers Park from birth, and is still in Rogers Park last I heard.

I used to take landscape photos. Had some pretty good photos taken along the frozen lakefront, from locations from Evanston to Lincoln Park. I think the negatives are still in a box ... somewhere.

Went to a few Northwestern roundball games. Never made it to a NW football game, though -- unless it was in Champaign.

I cycled streets to get to the then north end of the Lakefront path, and would ride that all the way to ... near downtown, at least. One day, near Lincoln Park (if I recall correctly), I almost got shoved off the path into the lake; would have been a 10 or 20 foot sheer drop. After recollecting my wits about me, I rode home ... and never rode the lakefront path again.

Did some streets after that. Did some of the bike paths along the northwest edge of the city. But mostly I stopped cycling until just a few years ago.

I'm not sure one should refer to what I did when I lived in Chi-town as cycling. POS bike from Sears; weighed a ton. But on the flat, weight is immaterial.