Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

Benefit, overkill or just plain foolishness

Old 09-30-11, 12:04 PM
  #1  
drmweaver2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Benefit, overkill or just plain foolishness

Background: In May of this year, I rode 30 straight metric centuries on my Df. In July, I was forced off the DF (basically forever I think) by an accident. In August, I started riding a recumbent trike and have since amassed just over 750 miles on it. I'm no speed demon on it but have begun to "settle in" and feel that my pedaling technique has made significant adjustments to the new "riding platform" (including switching to clipless from toe clips).

The situation: Having the "benefit" of hindsight, I'm not sure that I really got any serious fitness benefit from the 30 metrics in 30 days (and no, my accident was not bicycle-caused or related).

The question: Does anyone see any benefit of doing the same thing on the trike starting tomorrow/the next day? There are 2 essentially flat routes nearby with little traffic and few "forced stops" (signs, intersections, etc.) and a 3rd that begins about 10 miles away (so an 80 miler those days) to provide some variety.

Or is this simply a pointlessly foolish idea tending towards overkill especially considering the lack of days off? In May I didn't yearn for days off until the last 3 or so and my knees held up pretty well. I was 90% ready to go each day of the "event".

To be honest, I'm not sure of why doing this "again" appeals to me, but it does somehow.
drmweaver2 is offline  
Old 09-30-11, 02:04 PM
  #2  
RichardGlover
2nd Amendment Cyclist
 
RichardGlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 1,036

Bikes: Schwinn 2010 World Street, Handsome Speedy w/ SRAM Apex

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by drmweaver2 View Post
To be honest, I'm not sure of why doing this "again" appeals to me, but it does somehow.
That's all that really matters.
RichardGlover is offline  
Old 09-30-11, 03:55 PM
  #3  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 18,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 31 Posts
sounds fun. If you want to do it to improve your fitness, it would probably be better to mix in shorter, faster rides and some days off. But if you are getting enough rest, 60 miles a day really isn't that much.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 09-30-11, 04:01 PM
  #4  
Hydrated
Reeks of aged cotton duck
 
Hydrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Middle Georgia, USA
Posts: 1,176

Bikes: 2008 Kogswell PR mkII, 1976 Raleigh Professional, 1996 Serotta Atlanta, 1984 Trek 520, 1979 Raleigh Comp GS, 1995 Trek 950, 1979 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
But if you are getting enough rest, 60 miles a day really isn't that much.
Bwahahahaha... You do realize how crazy that sounds to a non-cyclist, right? My coworkers think that I'm some sort of superhuman because I commute 10 miles each way to work. I don't tell them that I wish I lived a little further away from work...
Hydrated is offline  
Old 09-30-11, 04:10 PM
  #5  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 18,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 31 Posts
I figure 200k every day is pretty much my limit
unterhausen is offline  
Old 09-30-11, 05:28 PM
  #6  
Rowan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,754
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1427 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 14 Posts
The critical factor seems to be rest, or lack of it. You might be fine doing the 30 metrics in a month, but at some point you are going to "overtrain". You didn't indicate what you did in June and July leading up to the accident (what happened, by the way?).

Do you have a heart rate monitor to keep a check on whether your beats are elevated when you wake up in the morning? Investing the time to check that will help you understand if you are overtrained because elevated resting HR is a clear manifestation of that.

And overtraining can lead to other physical issues. The fact that you were feeling less keen on the final three May rides indicates to me that overtraining was starting to surface.

The other significant advantage is that you can stop riding the "challenge" whenever you want, simply because it is a personal one and only bragging rights are the prize.
Rowan is offline  
Old 09-30-11, 06:45 PM
  #7  
drmweaver2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
You didn't indicate what you did in June and July leading up to the accident (what happened, by the way?).

Do you have a heart rate monitor to keep a check on whether your beats are elevated when you wake up in the morning? Investing the time to check that will help you understand if you are overtrained because elevated resting HR is a clear manifestation of that.
My last 3 days of riding in May were more "mentally taxing" than physical though I did have the beginnings of slight knee pain that resolved itself within a day of "completing" the challenge. The accident had nothing to do with the bike. I'd like to leave it at that.

June had under 400 miles riding total. Just pootled around as the Brits say. The accident was over the 4th of July weekend, so no riding at all during July after that other than 2__5-milers that convinced me DF's were never going to agree with my back again.

Just recently bought a HRM. Still figuring out how to use it "properly" for training. The numbers don't mean much to me yet as I don't have enough data/background to make sense of the numbers. Ex., I have no clue what my "max" is. My early morning HR over the last 30 days has been in the low 60s even after metric centuries the day before (4 on the trike so far).
drmweaver2 is offline  
Old 09-30-11, 07:04 PM
  #8  
StephenH
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Posts: 11,651
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Personally, if all my time was free, and I wanted to do something just for bragging rights, I'd rather do a 200k every other day. If I was like retired or something, I might do a 100k every day, but it'd be real leisurely, not as a workout.
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
StephenH is offline  
Old 10-01-11, 11:10 AM
  #9  
drmweaver2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
a 200k every other day
That's actually one of the self-challenge possibilities that had occured to me which make this a "question(able)" thing. What (exactly) appeals to me, is enough of a challenge to BE a challenge, and yet is accomplishable given my current level of fitness, motivation and long(er)-term goals - oh, and a constantly decreasing amount of daylight?

I've already done the latter (100k every day for 30 days but on a DF), never the former (200k distance) on a trike.

I'm slower on the trike by a significant amount. I have yet to ride further than 80 miles at once on the trike, at ~11-13 mph, and it took all afternoon/evening for my knees to recover. So, a 200k distance would be an all-day thing for me on the trike with a currently unknown amount of recovery time.

I'll decide later today, I guess, as my favorite college team is playing a daytime game and I want to watch.

Last edited by drmweaver2; 10-01-11 at 12:22 PM.
drmweaver2 is offline  
Old 10-01-11, 11:17 AM
  #10  
Barrettscv 
Have bike, will travel
 
Barrettscv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,033

Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 729 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
Personally, if all my time was free, and I wanted to do something just for bragging rights, I'd rather do a 200k every other day. If I was like retired or something, I might do a 100k every day, but it'd be real leisurely, not as a workout.
This.
Barrettscv is offline  
Old 10-01-11, 12:59 PM
  #11  
drmweaver2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Okay.. I decided.. (had to do something during halftime).

I'm going to alternate rides of 30 milers with rides of 100k/62 miles, 160k/100 miles and/or 200k/125 miles for 30 days. The shorter rides will be recovery/stay loose rides while the longer rides are (obviously) the more challenging ones for me on the trike. I don't expect the shorter rides to be anything but get-out-and-stay-loose rides but could be challenges if the weather doesn't cooperate. The longer rides combined with decreasing daylight hours and not taking any days off during the next 30 days will create their own challenge(s) for me as a fairly new triker.

I won't waste BF forum space documenting this self-challenge here (much) because I decided to try that blogging thing. If you're interested, here's the blog link... http://cruisingtiger.wordpress.com/

Thanks to those who commented.
drmweaver2 is offline  
Old 10-01-11, 01:12 PM
  #12  
10 Wheels
Galveston County Texas
 
10 Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Posts: 30,981

Bikes: 2010 Expedition, 03 GTO

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 709 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I want to ride a 100 miles every other day next year.

Be safe, ride for fun and fittness.
__________________
Fred "The Real Fred"
10 Wheels is offline  
Old 10-01-11, 01:54 PM
  #13  
StephenH
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Posts: 11,651
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
You mention your knees recovering- if that was an issue, I might re-work the timing as needed. On the 200k every other day, that's assuming you can finish the 200k and still be feeling good. The rest day in between is to give your muscles a rest, but if you're having joint problems or something like that, you might have to rework the schedule accordingly.
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
StephenH is offline  
Old 10-01-11, 02:05 PM
  #14  
Richard Cranium
Senior Member
 
Richard Cranium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Deep in the Shawnee Forest
Posts: 2,893

Bikes: LeMond - Gunnar

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Or is this simply a pointlessly foolish idea tending towards overkill especially considering the lack of days off? In May I didn't yearn for days off until the last 3 or so and my knees held up pretty well. I was 90% ready to go each day of the "event".
An important part of any task is whether the person doing it has reasoning for its value.

So whatever convoluted mix of riding you perform - must have some meaning to you or it will never be much chance of advancing your fitness.

As far as whether some schedule advances your cycling fitness - the stock answers is always - "total mileage alone never represents training volume or training efficiency."

There's more to cycling than "just riding."
Richard Cranium is offline  
Old 10-01-11, 03:06 PM
  #15  
Rowan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,754
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1427 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
There's more to cycling than "just riding."
That's the bit open to individual interpretation. For millions cycling means a form of transportation. And for others it's a simple recreational pursuit that brings them pleasure. There is a reason but for most, their motives meld into "just riding".

By the way, RC, how are the ribs and other injuries coming along?
Rowan is offline  
Old 10-01-11, 04:44 PM
  #16  
drmweaver2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
An important part of any task is whether the person doing it has reasoning for its value.

So whatever convoluted mix of riding you perform - must have some meaning to you or it will never be much chance of advancing your fitness.

As far as whether some schedule advances your cycling fitness - the stock answers is always - "total mileage alone never represents training volume or training efficiency."

There's more to cycling than "just riding."
Um, yeah. Okay.

Seriously though. I have never been one of those people who are evangelistic about riding or triking. I don't ride just to ride. And I hate "training" per se. So I have to sort of con myself into doing things sometimes. This is one of those things.

Just riding though, would accomplish a few things - even at a slow pace, endurance increases and thus/because the cardiovascular system improves in comparison to being sedentary. Unless there's some sort of overuse injury, there must be some muscular improvement. And it occupies time without spending money.

Meaning? Riding, by itself, has no meaning to me. Fitness might - but I'm not shooting for AHNULDnom. A bit of weight loss would be a plus but it's not a goal in or of itself for me.

"It's a challenge." Probably the most valuable thing to me as I haven't had any truly interesting but non-life-threatening challenges since surviving Hurricane Katrina - and before that, retiring from the military a bit over 15 years ago.
drmweaver2 is offline  
Old 10-01-11, 04:59 PM
  #17  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 18,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 31 Posts
the one concern your posts raise is that your knees need to "recover." Not sure what that entails, but I don't think knees recover all that well. I would try to figure out what is going on with the knees and work on that. In my case, swimming helps with the muscular imbalance that causes me to have knee pain. That certainly isn't a cure-all, but it helped me a lot
unterhausen is offline  
Old 10-01-11, 05:43 PM
  #18  
drmweaver2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
About 20 years ago I had knee surgery on both knees - suspected ACL/MCL and meniscus damage on both knees beforehand but the surgeon said he found nothing during either surgery. Nevertheless, the pain I was experiencing at the time has never completely gone away -- they still cause me pain just from walking at times. On the bike or trike, I can get residual "top of the knee" pain after particularly long or strenuous rides, but usually that just goes away within anywhere from a few hours to a day later.

FWIW, in May I was not using clipless pedals on the DF. Since switching to the trike I HAVE also switched to clipless and it's made some difference in comfort and ability to spin longer & faster with less (to no) pain depending on the specifics of an individual ride. So, I'm pretty aware of both the current condition and potential damage of my knees. Thanks for the concern though.
drmweaver2 is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 09:09 AM
  #19  
thebulls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,005

Bikes: SOMA Grand Randonneur, Gunnar Sport converted to 650B, Rivendell Rambouillet, '82 Trek 728, '84 Trek 610, '85 Trek 500, C'Dale F600, Burley Duet, Lotus Legend

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
"Does anyone see any benefit... "

Benefit is in the eye of the beholder and since the presumed benefit is to you, only you can decide. If you ask more specifically "Does anyone see any _training_ benefit ... " then the answer is unambiguously "no". You'd be much better off having "rest days" (which doesn't mean no riding, but does mean that whatever riding you do is as close to a resting heartbeat as you can get) in the schedule so that your muscles have time to rebuild and adapt to the training load. And you'd also be better off mixing up the type of riding that you are doing so that some days you are training intensely but for shorter time/distance and other days at moderate intensity but longer time/distance.
thebulls is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 10:06 AM
  #20  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 18,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 31 Posts
not having rest days doesn't really mean that there is no training benefit though, it just isn't as much as it would have been with rest days

Similarly, I've seen people say there is no training benefit from riding a 1200k, but PBP definitely made me stronger

Last edited by unterhausen; 10-03-11 at 10:14 AM.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 12:54 PM
  #21  
Homeyba
Senior Member
 
Homeyba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central Coast, California
Posts: 3,370

Bikes: Colnago C-50, Calfee Dragonfly Tandem, Specialized Allez Pro, Peugeot Competition Light

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
...Similarly, I've seen people say there is no training benefit from riding a 1200k, but PBP definitely made me stronger
That's the problem with definitive statements. I've gotten stronger after 1200ks too. I think it depends on how you ride them. If you ride it like a race I think you won't be doing yourself any good. If you ride it and allow yourself time to recover and rest (during the ride) then I think you can get stronger after a 1200k. Especially if you come into it at less than your optimal conditioning.
Riding every day isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most professional riders ride nearly every day. But, they don't ride hard every day! To be able to do that you will have to gauge your effort each day. You need to have a day or a couple where you do your miles but you do them at an easy pace, basically a rest days on the bike. Watch your body, see what it's doing. It'll tell you if you're over doing it!
Homeyba is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 02:08 PM
  #22  
chasm54
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Posts: 8,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Long, steady distance rides are great fitness-builders. Steady, not slow. I was able to retire at the start of this year and took the opportunity to do a two-month tour in May and June. I rode a heavily-loaded tourer an average of 100k per day, six days a week. Obviously I worked hard on the hills, but apart from that I made no effort to hurry, and I was generally chugging along with an average HR of 110-120.

When I came home I did my usual TT course. I was 5% faster despite not having done any top-end, intensive work. Don't let anyone tell you that extensive, moderate training doesn't build speed. If you have the time to do it, it is great training.
chasm54 is offline  
Old 10-04-11, 10:37 AM
  #23  
thebulls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,005

Bikes: SOMA Grand Randonneur, Gunnar Sport converted to 650B, Rivendell Rambouillet, '82 Trek 728, '84 Trek 610, '85 Trek 500, C'Dale F600, Burley Duet, Lotus Legend

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
not having rest days doesn't really mean that there is no training benefit though, it just isn't as much as it would have been with rest days

Similarly, I've seen people say there is no training benefit from riding a 1200k, but PBP definitely made me stronger
Point taken. My post would more-accurately say "...unambiguously 'not as much as training benefit as possible.'"

FWIW, I was definitely stronger after PBP, after a few rest days. But if I had tried to ride a 30-minute time trial the day after PBP I definitely would have been slower than if I had ridden the same time trial the day before PBP.
thebulls is offline  
Old 10-09-11, 10:44 AM
  #24  
drmweaver2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well stuff happens and it's not always planned.
My self-challenge will be taking a short hiatus - hopefully short, that is.

My 80-year-old father, with whom I live, surprised me by up and buying a nearly new TerraTrike Rover yesterday. We picked it up last night and went riding tis morning. This means that, for the next two weeks or so, I'm going to go riding with him. It's totally unreasonable for him to leave at oh-dark-thrity as I tend to do. It's a bit impractical to start later, after riding with him, and then do my own ride(s). He's certainly not going to try the distances I am or ride at anywhere near the speed I am trying to ride. And there is no back-up/emergency driver if he rides alone and has an emergency/breakdown. So, all of that is definitely going to affect my own riding for at least a short time while we sort out the trike (maintenance and fit-wise), his early riding pains, and get the usual assortment of accesories for him to ride alone. Add in his normal cantankerous, Type A personality when facing ANY pain (or less than "perfect" whatever) and the next few days may be more challenging for me than the riding would be.

So...things are on hold. Sigh.
And it's good riding weather now too......

Last edited by drmweaver2; 10-09-11 at 10:48 AM.
drmweaver2 is offline  
Old 10-09-11, 05:07 PM
  #25  
CHAS
Senior Member
 
CHAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Silverthorne, Colorado
Posts: 636

Bikes: Rawlings Drakkar, Specialized Roubaix, Pivot, Challenge Trike, Tandem

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I suppose you have tried adjusting your saddle to aleviate the knee pain.
If you have time to ride a metric everyday, do it. Why not?
Take a day off when you want a break. Put you Dad's place on your route and meet him part way through the ride.
Do it if only to make me jealous.
CHAS is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.