DaHaMac

This Randonneur in training (haven't rode my first Brevet yet) is seeking advice on components for building a Gunnar Sport for Randonneuring/Commuting/Group Rides @ no more than 20mph average moving speed.

It has been a long and hard process for me to decide on a Gunnar Sport frame but I am certain that the Gunnar Sport is the frame that I am going to use. Now I need help from you experienced long distance riders in putting together the final build.

My budget is $2,500 and is partially achievable so long as the wheelset and Dura-Ace crankset being donated to the build will work.

The frame cost is $900 but may rise if it is possible to get double eyelets on the rear.
The fork cost is $275 but may rise if I have fittings added for a front rack (which rack?). I have read Nick's post about getting a low trail fork since a handlebar bag will be used. Any recommendations for a low trail fork that will not bust the budget?

I have put together an Ultegra groupset with Tektro Long Reach brakes that priced out at $1000.00. However, I am not sure that I am selecting the best components when I put together that groupset.

So, what handle bars to you all recommend? (I am thinking either Nitto Noodle or Nitto Randonneur handlebars).
What headset?
What stem? (I assume I'll no more about stem length after being fitted)

Any other useful information will be greatly appreciated as this represents a significant investment for me and is my first frame up bike build.

Thanks

thebulls

Since you're getting a Gunnar with an extra-cost fork, you can just have Waterford build you an A.Homer Hilsen fork and rake it to be low trail. That's what I did. I just got it with the standard eyelets for a Nitto Mark's Rack. I paid $367.50 but that included shipping. I'm running mine with 650B wheels which works just fine but I have had to put on a Tektro BMX brake to get long enough brake arms. I'll switch to Mafac RAID once I get around to it.

I don't like the randonneur handlebars at all, they make my hands go numb. The Nitto Noodle's are not quite as bad in that respect. But I find that the classic round bend bars work best for me. Either the Velo Orange Grand Cru Course or the Compass Bicycles Maes Bend.

Supposedly roller-bearing headsets are better for avoiding shimmy.

I'd consider paying extra to get a "Waterford" paint job for your Gunnar. Everyone I know who has a Gunnar loves the bike and complains about the paint job.

The only comment I'd make about build kit is that it is hard to have gearing that is "too low" for randonneuring, but easy to have gearing that is too high. So I have a Sugino XD600 with 24-tooth small ring paired to an SRam 11-34 cassette. I am seldom in that lowest granny gear, but when you hit an sequence of extended 15 percent grades on the second day of a 600Km (Pigeon Hills on the Frederick 600), it sure is nice to have an ultra-low gear. It doesn't just save your knees, it also allows you to spin up the hill and conserve precious glycogen stores. The high gear of 48 chainwheel to 11-tooth cassette spins out at around 30mph, which is fine because that's around the right speed to tuck and get aero, not keep pedaling unless you're in a race.

Nick

DaHaMac

Very informative feedback Nick, thanks! I am going to preserve your information on the Fork and pass it along to the bike shop during the fitting process.

I was thinking about using a compact double for this build but it sounds as if I might need to consider going with a triple? I am currently averaging about 15mph (Avg Moving Speed) on my commutes (21 miles one-way with elev. gain of 980ft). Because I am currently struggling to push that AMS as close as possible to 20mph, my thought is that I must train to go as fast uphill as humanly possibly. However, I have noticed that even my lowest current gear 39x28 really seems to get tough to push uphill as the miles add up.

skiffrun

Re: fitting ...

make sure whomever does the fitting understands randonneuring.
Otherwise, you could end up with a fit that's fit for racing or mtn biking.
And whatever the results of the fitting ... be willing to change it yourself while on the ride.

jcmkk3

A lot of riders like to use doubles that can run a small granny ring. Some options are:
Rene Herse
TA Specialties Cyclotourist
Velo Orange Grand Cru 50.4bcd
White Industries VBC

ronocnikral

I am unfamiliar with the gunnar/waterford fork, but I've found in addition to low trail, having as many rack braze-ons as possible is a good thing. I even have low-rider mounts in addition to the standard rack & fender eyelets at the dropouts. when I had my bike made, i selected the low-rider rack first and the location of the closed braze-ons were selected from there.

I have a VO compact double (110 mm BCD) that is ok. i like the gearing and it has gotten my big butt up anything i have come across, but I have had a broken tooth on the big chain ring on my first big outing (VO sent a replacement). BQ complains that the aluminum they use for the VO cranks is susceptible to stress cracking. I don't have that experience after some 3000 miles. Here is my write up on it. For the price, it seems there is a better value...?

I would make room in the budget for a nice lighting system. The new shimano hubs are very good imo, and I have a hard time telling the difference between the schmidt and the shimano. ymmv. but, I would rather have a dynamo lighting system (I suggest a B&M CYO IQ light) over ultegra front and rear derailleurs and even brifters (which I have never used btw).

I sport Nitto Randonneur in the largest possible width b/c my shoulders are super wide. I would also look at "woodchipper" style bars as well, in fact, I am thinking about them for my commuter.

shelbyfv

On my Sport, I have used a standard Shimano triple, a Sugino compact (48T big ring) triple, and currently use a 50-34 Ultegra compact with mtb cassette. I like the compact double best. The Sugino never shifted well with STI. I have noodle bars on another bike and they are ok but not extraordinary. They seem a little narrow for the stated size. Rando bars are very narrow on the flats, only reach their stated size on the drops. Not so good if you ride on the flats or hoods. IMO, seatpost, stem and bars should match, at least in color. I like Ritchey components and they aren't expensive. Be sure to check the Gunnar website for their sizing info. Because of the longer headtube, I could ride a size larger than I would have guessed.

mander

I am another randonneur who does well with a mountain (11-34) cassette. I use it with a regular 53-39 crankset. 39-34 is not a bad bottom gear.

RichardGlover

I run a 50/34 12-32 combo; I really like the low 34-32, and I spin out above 40mph on downhills (when I should be coasting anyway). When it comes time to replace my drivetrain, I might look to build a compact 48/32 and pair it with an 11-32.

DaHaMac

Taking the advice that I have been given here I asked Gunnar about a low trail fork with Nitto Mark mounts. Within two hours Richard Schwinn replied and told me that it would be no problem for them to make the fork with the low trail and rack mounts. The improved fork will only run $50 more than the standard.

BTW, I'm not just drooling to have an Ultegra groupset but for the prices I've seen for groupsets it does seem to hit the sweet spot. I'd love to shave $500 off the price of the groupset if I could get a Tiagra groupset for around $400.

I am hearing you all about making sure I have granny gears. I was thinking about using a 50/34 upfront with an 12/30 in the back. The lowest gear on my current bikes is 40x34 and it has served me well except for a 18% grade. However, I think an 18% grade is best served with some form of electro-mechanical motor Yet I have climbed Spewell Bluff with a 39x28 but I wouldn't want to do that after riding a hundred miles!

Maybe I can rethink going the 10-speed route and drop back to 9-speed Deore XT with Ultegra bar ends? I would like to have the index shifting on this level of bike but really like the option of bar-ends to go friction if needed.

Since the wheelset and crankset (don't know about bottom bracket) are being given to me, the dyno-hub and fancy crankset will have to wait until after the initial build. I do fully intend to get the Dyno-hub though because I commute in the dark many days.

Any other feedback on the Salsa Woodchipper bars? I feel like I have wide shoulders and coming from flat bars I do really like to spread out when I am not hammering.

Ritchey components are fine with me, I've just got to learn what roller-bearings mean and how to identify them in the components.

greaterbrown

Woodchippers are great bars, BUT I would def. not put them on a dedicated Rando bike. Stick with the Nittos.

Werkin

I'm not a long distance rider, and the short side of my average ride is much like your daily commute with a bit more elevation gain. The few things I have experience with are the 50/34 - 12/30, 18% grade, and preference for a wide bar. I use the 34fr/30r for recovery and climb standing in higher gears for the most part. I can do the same 18% in 40/28 on another bike, but recovery is dismounting to catch my breath, not spinning over the top. There are times I would like to have lower gearing, but never any time I feel the low gears I use are a waste, I say 34 rear cog or triple chainrings if you are pushing a load up an 18%.

I like my Nitto Noodles, the downside is cramped hand position behind the hooks while covering the brake lever on descents; my palms are wide. I do like the long flat bottom of the drops. Your Sport would need to have a 1inch head tube for a quill stem, or find a legacy 1 - 1 1/8th Thomson stem to use them with a 1 1/8th steerer. Noodles already have an integrated shim, I think if another shim were added it may induce creaks.

I'm using a Syntace 46cm bar on my compact equipped bike. It has 100mm reach, which provides additional room to move around on, and the flat section in the drops behind the levers offers natural support for the palm, plus the index finger is in close proximity to the brake lever. If ascent is 18%, the descent is probably quite fast, and you'll be in the drops for increased control. There are not many 46cm handlebar choices, and fewer in 48cm.

mander

Bar ends are a great (and super cheap) choice for a commuting/ randonneuring/ knock-about bike. They simply can take a huge whaling and still work. And XT is great too. Going 9 speed will significalty decrease the operating costs of your bike (chains, etc are cheaper) and probably the build cost as well. Basically this option will toughen up your bike while making lots of room in your budget for things like dynamo lighting.

You will likely want to use a road FD if you wind up using a double crank with a 50t big ring.

Noodles are made in massive widths, up to 46 cm. If you do use them, a Nitto UI stem will be the matchiest option that fits a normal 1 1/8" threadless fork.

DaHaMac

Here is my current Gunnar Sport build wish list:

ComponentFrameForkRimsTubes
Spokes
TiresShiftersBrakesBrake LeversBottom BracketCranksetCassetteChainF. DerailleurR. DerailleurCablesHeadsetStemHandlebarBar Tape
PedalsSaddleSeatpostBottle Cages
FendersFront RackThis isn't a purchased list but this list does have me under the $2,500 budget. Any feedback is welcome. I have made changes from my original plans from the feedback already received.

PS - formatting is a PITA

mander

I suggest that you could save money by cheaping out on the bb, cassette and chain. The lower end Shimano and SRAM cassettes and chains cost less but (really!) shift just as good, although they're heavier. Same goes for the 105 or Tiagra bb compared to Ultegra. All you get for that large pile of cash is a bit less weight.

I am wary of any used wheelset, but at least the price is right. Really if you can find it in the budget, brand new wheels with a generator (i suggest the shimano 72 or 80) will be a big plus. If you do go with the used freebies, you should check the condition of the bearings right away, and overhaul 'em if necessary. Other than that if the brake track is not very worn, spoke tension is reasonably even and you can't see cracks around the spoke eyelets, you ought to be ok.

shelbyfv

The external bb cups are cheap. Sometimes the Ultegra is only a few dollars more than the lesser models. I would skip the carbon seatpost. An aluminum Ritchey or a Thomson if you want fancier. If you have your fit figured out you won't need a goofy adjustable stem. Since you are using bar ends, you might get as good or better performance with an older model FD and you could get the correct 28.6 clamp size. I agree that 9 speed will make things easier and more economical.

DaHaMac

Yup, the Ultegra BB is only $3 more than the 105 BB. Of course the BB will depend on the donated crank set.

I chose the carbon fiber seatpost with the thought of reducing any rough roads. I have an aluminium frame bike currently and ride chip-seal roads. The aluminium transmits a lot of vibration to the sit bones even with a sprung saddle. My steel bike with steel seatpost is much smoother on the rough roads.

I am being a little bit of weight weenie because I am trying to get this bike as close to 20 pounds as possible. Maybe a little unrealistic but the Jamis Aurora Elite with disc brakes/fenders/and rear rack is 27lbs and spending an extra $1000 requires some type of justification. Besides many people were telling me that the Aurora Elite would be too heavy for Randonneuring. The other idea is that as I continue to lose weight the I can switch out to lighter wheels on the Gunnar, strip the racks and fenders, and have decently go fast bike.

I hear you on the dyno and lights. However, I prefer to get the bike rideable first and then get a dyno powered wheelset built when I can afford the wheels, headlights, and tailights.

BTW, I've switched to the Tektro 559's as they have a 55-73mm reach.

mander

woops, I assumed octalink for some reason (I'm an old fashioned guy). carry on then.

mander

..also, I understand the allure of a light bike. your build sounds good to me.

brianogilvie 

Light is nice, but I have done rides up to 200K with a 58cm Surly Long Haul Trucker equipped with stainless steel racks and fenders, and a sturdy dynohub-equipped wheelset (Velocity Synergy rims, 36 spokes). I think it weighs 33 lbs. or so.

I'm thinking that my next bike might be a Boulder Bicycles 650B All-Road, which will be substantially lighter--I'm not promoting riding brevets on a heavy bike, just pointing out that it can be done!

DaHaMac

A little more background on my choice. I currently have a 1983 Schwinn World Tourist (Giant built lugged steel). Big Red weighs in as of yesterday with pump, tools, and rack without panniers at 37lbs. Big Red will be my heavy loaded commuter and in essence takes the place that I had intended for the Jamis Aurora Elite (except without disc brakes).

The Gunnar Sport will be for doing fast long miles. The Gunnar Sport will be my b-day (March) present for losing 140lbs in the past year.

N+1 will be a Gunnar Fastlane with discs and lengthened chainstays for loaded and slow touring.

Back on topic.... please tell me more about seatposts! Of all of the bike parts I probably know the least on the advantages and disadvantages of the different seatposts. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. I think that Gunnar recommends Thompson seatposts but I haven't yet figured out which ones.

Next question... what is a good trail recommendation? Gunnar will make the fork to match the trail that I need but I don't know what trail to tell them at the moment.

Thanks again.

GP

Thomson posts are considered the best but I prefer the Salsa Shaft. Cheaper and just as easy or easier to adjust.

Barrettscv 

I like triples for long distance rigs, but I think your 50/34 Compact Crankset upfront with an 12/30 cassette in the back will work very well. I've been using the 12-30 ten-speed Tiagra cassette with perfect results. You can use an Ultegra or 105 "GS" rear derailleur and won't need a Deore derailleur with this drivetrain.

I've just fitted a 46cm Woodshipper handlebar to my winter bike. It has a nice shape, but is too wide for road cycling. Get the 42 size if you consider this bar. I also like the FSA compact handlebar in a 44 size and would suggest this over the Woodchipper. The Woodchipper is a off-road handlebar and less than ideal for road cycling. I'm 6' and broad shouldered.

I like the FSA seatposts. Very good quality, up there with Thomas, IMO. Half the price.

mikepwagner

Is it ever worth thinking of something like the following?

1. By Motobecane Premio Pro from BD for $1500
2. Move components from Motobecane to Gunnar Sport.
3. Sell Motobecane Premio Pro frame on eBay

That way you end up with complete Ultegra drive train, decent wheels, etc. for $2400 minus whatever you get for the Motobecane frame on eBay.

Mike

ronocnikral

are we back to talking vibration dampening between materials? personally, I don't mind the weight of money in my wallet, and I skip over the carbon fiber. also, my sit bones usually take beating over 1200k. I am fairly certain seat post material can prevent it. ymmv.

i would rather have dynamo lighting over a carbon seat post or components that say "ultegra" on them. but, I ride in the dark a lot, maybe b/c I don't have carbon and ultegra components?