drmweaver2

Note: After proofreading this, it sounds soooo stupid I'm almost afraid to post it. But it's an issue that is making moving from metric centuries to Imperial centuries or 200ks a tough nut right now.

Since my purchase of a used Gold Rush Replica a month or so ago, I've been having into a slight "problem" controlling my speed. The goal is to ride rando distances and I've been able to do six metric centuries on it already.

But like I said, speed is an issue. Even staying in the middle front chainring, it pedals so easily that I end up riding faster "out of the gate" (say the first 20 miles) than I can maintain for an extended period of time. Easy is relative - what I actually mean is without straining my knees or thighs too much. What ends up happening is I'm either noticeably tiring at/by the midway point, actually unable to reach the midway point due to having "shot my wad", or I hit the midway point and basically crawl/drag myself home (especially if I run into any sort of a headwind on the way back).

I've got a cycle computer (no cadence option), Zzipper fairing on it and am riding dead-flat routes. I do try to maintain an 80+ rpm cadence using the periodic count for 15-seconds then multiply by 4 method.

The actual speed I am hitting absolutely pales in comparison to what more experienced riders can do; no question about that. OTOH, I'm riding/rolling_through those first 20 or so miles at a much faster average speed than I ever have on any other bike/trike whether with or into headwinds. (My perceived effort feels less until the battery runs dry.)

Any advice wrt speed control or maintenance?

Dudelsack 

I think most folks tend to go out way too fast, especially with a tailwind. I'm thinking you have to commit to a speed and develop the discipline to stick to it. When I've done longer cookie rides I remind myself that a lot of people are going to pass me early on, but stick with the plan unless there's a really good reason not to.

rogerstg

It could be that you're just not in shape to ride those distances yet. If I read your post correctly, your'e hitting a wall at ~ 30 miles and can barely make it to ~60 mile, on flat terrain no less.

IME, when I have problems because I was riding too hard, I can usually just dial it back for a mile or so and recover enough to get back into my normal rhythm. It sounds like you don't have enough endurance yet to recover.

Interval workouts are very effective at increasing your body's ability to recover during the rest phase. There's lots of workout advice on the net specific to cycling.

dave5339

I have a similar issue on organized rides. I find it's real easy to get carried away and ride above my current capabilities.

I've found that by keeping a close eye on my heart rate allows me to adjust my exertion levels as needed.

The best advice I can give would be to develop a plan for your ride that keeps you within your limits and follow it during the ride.

Semper Fi

10 Wheels

I determine my pace ahead of time and never exceed it.

unterhausen

I don't really have that problem as far as I can tell. I do find I have to start eating at around 20 miles or else it starts getting really ugly at about 50 miles.

Barrettscv 

Try to maintain good and efficient form. This means smooth pedal stroke and a sustainable fast cadence. This is more important than a fast or slow pace. Staying in good form for many hours will help you finish longer rides.

Also, be sure the bike fits well with comfortable contact points, including saddle, handlebars and shoes.

Jamesw2

And in a court of law I have never been accused exceeding my pace!

My pace, for a 30 to 60 mile ride is about 9.8 mph. After 60 miles ,on flat, it drops into the 7.5 mph range.
I have never been called an over achiever either. i am comfortable with 9.8. because a year ago i was only doing a 8mph average over 30 miles.

Learn to breath while riding at the very least be conscious of your breath. Teach your self to breath deeply. Stronger abdominal muscles. If you begin to breath shallowly slow down until your respiration relaxes.

I am finding that breathing correctly is the most difficult thing i have been trying to teach myself. It's a self sustaining feed back loop that keeps a rider calm and in the moment. The more i think about the finish line the slower i go. The more i am concentrating on the moment the easier i ride. Medation to concentrating on only one thing riding is like meditation. Or , you could say, learn to meditate while riding.

drmweaver2

Not sure it's an "am I in shape" question as I was doing metric centuries on the trike in Oct/Nov without this difficulty (though my average speed expectations & goals were much lower). But it's a thought.

Discipline to ride a pre-determined speed? Definitely an, if not THE, issue. At the heart of the matter, I think - how does one determine what that pre-determined pace ought to be - especially at the start of the ride? (simple answer is obviously THROUGH EXPERIENCE but I'm hoping for something else.) Like I said, I'm riding with less perceived effort (until things just deteriorate & fall apart or serious discomfort arises) and still achieving a much higher (5-7 mph) average speed than I'm used to over the first half of the ride - which could be just because the GRR is inherently faster than the trike was, I guess.

I dont think it's a nutrition issue as I eat before and during the ride. But I'll pay more attention to it.

FWIW, most of my riding is solo, so it's not a "ride at the speed of the pack" mentality thing. OTOH, I am much more likely to finish solo metric century rides regardless of any difficulties rather than abort/cut it short (and that makes no sense to me at all as it's embarassing to DNF in front of people).

I'm concerned about reaching a point where I start out doubting whether I'll complete the ride satisfactorily rather than confident I will.

FunkyStickman

Check your nutrition... if you're not eating right, your body will shut down on you like that. It takes a LOT of calories to ride 100+ miles, and it's possible you just aren't eating/drinking enough. Not just how much, but what kind of foods are you consuming? On my first 200K, I ate every change I got and it took 15 minutes to digest at each stop, but I had tons of energy left at the end... I averaged about 12MPH on the bike, about 10MPH overall.

Steamer

Perhaps you need to retrain your brain into accepting easy and non-exerting riding as thoroughly normal when on a long ride, especially at the beginning of the ride. As for how to monitor yourself? - it seems percieved exertion isn't really working for you entirely, so how about heart rate? HRMs are cheap nowadays. A power meter would be even more objective but you may not want to spring for one. And yes, a faired GRR is going to be way faster than a TT Cuiser for the same effort - 5 to 7 mph sounds about right to me.

The Octopus 

On long rides, I use a couple of mantras to keep a leash on it.

The first is, "Can I ride this pace all day?" If the answer is no, I slow down, no matter how fast I'm going.

The second I use when climbing or riding into a stiff headwind. I ask myself if the pace I'm riding in those condititions would cause me to ride my wife off my wheel, were she riding with me. Mrs. The Octopus rides a steady, conservative pace and I've found over the years that I never, ever get into trouble if I'm riding her pace. So that's the pace I climb at on brevets.

One of the other tricks I used when I was new(er) to distance riding was, when I was with others, I'd make sure that I was never up the road from someone I knew to be a stronger rider than I was. It was like, "What the hell business do I have trying to ride this faster than [whoever stud rider was happened to be on the ride]?" I figured if they were dialing it back, it meant that they knew something I didn't and I'd be wise to follow their lead. This, of course, violates the "ride your own ride" rule. The problem is, when I was less experienced, my "ride" tended to be a pretty stupid ride. I was better off riding someone else's ride -- something that would be smarter, more evenly paced, and would leave me feeling strong and fresh at the end of the ride. So if there's someone out there who is just solid and steady and has a reputation for always finishing long rides without suffering much, then just go out and do exactly what they're doing and you'll be fine.

Dudelsack 

There's a ride captain in our club who is 82 years old. There has been many a time I'll blast out of the parking lot with the hammerheads, only to fade at mile 25 and have him pedal leisurely by me.

So I agree with 8 legs up there: riding with a veteran can be a BIG help. If I see this guy riding a long ride, I always stay near him.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, as other posters say, get a HRM. Doesn't have to be fancy. Big numbers are good. So what you do is you ride an metric century. Notice your sustainable climbing HR at the end. Use that for your max HR on your imperial. Never go over that, even when the competition is disappearing up the hill. Near the end of your imperial, again note your finishing comfortable max climbing HR. Use that for your max HR on your 200. Same procedure for each succeeding distance. You'll see that it will go down for each longer distance. Works like a charm.

drmweaver2

I'll look around for a relatively inexpensive hrm and see how that works.
Here's a twist in the story ---- Went out today just intending to do 30, not pushing it, just pedalling. Ran into the local long-distance uberrider (who occasionally posts here) about 8 miles down the road. He was stretching, I stopped and said hey. Joined up with him for an indeterminate distance and tried to keep the pace down. Very very hard to do with him - he's just so smooth. Anyway, hit the "30 miler out-n-back turnaround point" and I was stil feeling good so I continued on with him and we ended up doing a metric century.

The twist - average speed was just over 16 mph for the entire ride for me. Otoh, I was definitely running out of gas the last 8 miles. I'd eaten eggs n toast before the ride and had a chocolate milk and honey bun at the halfway point convenience store. A fair bit of conversation, which is not really my thing when I'm not feeling in tiptop condition - I mention this solely to illustrate that I wasn't pushing into a "high exertion zone" (Z3 or whatever). Lol. Compared to yesterday's much shorter ride, this was easier overall. I have ZERO explanation for the difference.

I guess the truth is, I'm still very confused about pacing, effort v perceived effort, and what I ought to realistically be able to expect/plan on in terms of time/distance/result.

skiffrun

I haven't read thru the previous responses, so perhaps these have been covered already, but ... my first reactions were:

1. WHY are you straining your knees or thighs AT ALL? Take your time to let your muscles and ligaments, etc. warm-up. There is no need to push-push-push. RELAX. Stay CALM.

2. Stop worrying so much about the cadence that you are repeatedly "doing counts". Relax and calm thyself. If you must think about your pedaling, then concentrate on being smooth -- regardless the cadence or the speed. Smooth takes less energy, and smooth will bring speed via cadence.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've now skimmed through the previous responses, including the two from the OP.

3. Warm-up easily, perhaps you need to use the word slowly, since you seem to be mis-interpretting "easy" at the start of your rides.

4. Don't worry about the pace. If you ride faster than 15 kph, and do controls quickly, you'll stay ahead of the closing times. Do you ride faster than 15 kph (9.3 mph)? If so, stop worrying about the speed.

5. In lieu of a HRM, if you are breathing hard enough that you notice it, either you just climbed a hill (which YOU are not doing) or you just did a hot interval (for FUN), or -- most likely -- you are working too hard. Dial it back until your breathing becomes normal. One does NOT need to keep a high heart rate to finish a brevet or permanent; in fact, it is almost certainly the other way 'round: keep the heart rate down, keep the breathing to normal, NO straining the knees or thighs.

6. If you are breathing normally, etc., but your thighs start to bother you ... your fit on the bike may not be the best ... stop and raise the saddle 1 or 2 mm, and see if that helps your thighs. Even if the new saddle height is not correct for long-term, a change in position may allow your muscles to recover. (That's what happened to me / what I did on a recent ride. I realized my quads were bothering me; without looking at the seat-post, I knew it had slipped a bit into the down-tube; I stopped and looked, sure enough, raised the saddle about 2 mms and resumed the ride; quads felt like new a few miles later. Looking at the blog post ... I see I didn't even mention the stop to adjust the saddle ... wasn't important to the thrust of the post.)

7. ENJOY the ride, for the sake of the ride.

Jamesw2

I was beginning to think i was the slowest and the only one to ride at an average of 10 mph. i am getting to the point that it is better to stop and eat a powerbar ( cliff bar) than try to eat while riding. the roads where i ride have heavy traffic and even with a berm i get buzzed, honked at . and this passed week a Honda element was stopped on the berm. as I rolled up to it, and signaled to go around, it pulled out. I pulled back onto the berm and the car pulled off and stopped. I looked inside the car and it seemed to have teenagers as passengers. I pulled out my cell and was ready to take a pix when they pulled back onto the road.

Carbonfiberboy 

skiffrun- he's riding a recumbent. Your point is still good. My guess would be that if he's recently switched from a DF bike, his musculature will take time to adapt to the new pedaling dynamic. Another problem may be that he is riding flat routes. Those are always tiring. He should ride hills. Everyone should ride hills.

drmweaver2

No hills in river delta country.

bobbycorno

1) Get a heart monitor
2) Figure out your Functional Threshold Heart Rate (easiest way is to ride a 20 minute time trial - FTHR is your average hr for that effort)
3) When you're riding distance, don't go over 88% of your FTHR (the top end of what's commonly called Zone 3). Period.

SP
Bend, OR

Picchio Special

Good advice. My personal experience, though, which may or may not be yours, is that adrenaline from anxiety, fear, excitement, etc., plays havoc with mr heart rate at the beginning of a "big event" in particular. My HR jumps way up beyond my level of perceived exertion, and I pretty much have to throw that out the window as a day-of guide - at least for the first chunk of miles. Of course, everybody's body and personal experience may be different. It may not be a bad thing in my case, since those higher HR numbers incline me to go out really easily and then press the pedal a bit harder once I get a sense for how my body is responding partway into a long ride.

Carbonfiberboy 

OTOH, I have done, and still can do full LT efforts on 200k rides. On 400k I will cap it at 90% of LT. I suppose it depends by what theory one's zones are defined. 88% of the top of the Z3 I use would be 119. This would be appropriate to a 1200.

anotherbrian

My best success in doing double centuries has been settling on a %MHR (percent of max HR) range and sticking to it. That'll mean riding slower up hills and faster down hills and somewhere in the middle on flats, but I'm confident that if I keep in that range (65-70% MHR) I can keep going indefinitely.

I'd like to get faster and complete a double with 20k ft of climbing this year and have been reading Friel's book to design my own structured training. I'm having trouble nailing down my Lactate Threshold numbers though; what I can maintain for 30min on the trainer is 5-10% less than I was able to maintain in casual (but competitive) MTB races earlier in the year. Right now I'm basing my LT numbers on the prior MTB data, and hopefully I can get jazzed/committed enough to put those same efforts out on the road/trainer.

drmweaver2

Kinda to update/roundout the thread....
Rode metric(Mon) & Imperial(Wed) centuries this week as well as a 200k brevet(Sat). Had a total of 30+ bonus miles between them all. Finished all events in acceptable times; didn't experience a significant loss of energy/enthusiasm/motivation thing at all on any of these rides.

Speed control/management was best on the brevet of all things. Managed 15+mph average even after being involved in a "run the cyclist off the road" situation which ended up with the big front chainring too bent to use either the big or the middle chainrings!

The metric century and brevet were ridden with others; the Impreial was a solo RUSA populaire. The metric had the slowest average speed; go figure.

I still have no clue about why the up and down experience with speed control. I did get/use a cheap HRM and stayed ~140bpm or so for most of the ride - easy effort for the most part. This may or may not have helped.

Homeyba

It should. Staying out of the red zone is real important on long rides. It's really important to stay in tune with what your body is doing.

What happened with the "run the cyclist off the road" situation? How far did you have to go with just the little chainring? I once rode a 300k with just the 54t chainring after I folded the small one over with my incredibly awesome torque. I had to bang it back straight with a rock so I could at least turn the cranks. If I had my choice I think I would have rather folded the big ring over and just used the little one.