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600k fail

Old 04-17-12, 03:05 PM
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600k fail

Well, we had our Tombstone 600 this past weekend and my buddy and I failed to finish. Actually, any time you learn a few lessons in the process, it may not be a failure.

In any case, we started out in Tucson under a steady rain and temps in the low 50's. As we climbed into the Santa Rita Mountains between Sahuarita & Sonoita AZ, the rain continued but now there was hail, ice and even a bit of snow. Have you ever gone downhill with hail bouncing off your face? That happened on at least three occasions. We also had to change two tubes. One, when we arrived in Sahuarita and the other, about 10 miles outside of the same town. I knew it was cold when ice failed to melt as it landed on my rain gear. It just sat there - taunting me.

Technically speaking, we didn't quit but rather ran out of time into the Sonoita checkpoint by 30 minutes. But, to be honest, I was pretty much done anyway. The winds were relentless - steady at 30 mph with 45+ gusts. At one point, I watched my friend get blown over laterally by 3 feet. We were getting pounded.

I was so cold upon arrival in Sonoita that holding a drink was hard - from the body shakes.

I think that 12 signed up. Two didn't start. I think they may have been the smartest. One dropped within the first 30 miles due to the cold, another dropped at the 50 mile point and then we dropped in Sonita. One more dropped at some point - five much hardier & stronger riders finished the event.

We'll give a 600 another shot but this time, we'll drive over to Orange CA for their triple loop 600k. Thank God for randonesia...it'll help me forget the bad weather on this particular rando.
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Old 04-17-12, 03:51 PM
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"Randonesia"... that's perfect. Isn't there a similar condition that helps women forget the pain of childbirth so they'll do it again?
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Old 04-17-12, 04:39 PM
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I'm waiting for the first "HTFU". Brave ride you just did.
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Old 04-17-12, 04:50 PM
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One of the best things that ever happened to me on a randonnee was discovering that I had stashed a spare pair of gloves in my seat bag. My other gloves were soaked and it was snowing. Finished that one, but there were times when I wondered if I was going to live through it -- and I mean that in all seriousness.

I'm a lot more willing not to start nowadays. I was going to ride a 600k last year that promised thunderstorms for the entire ride, but I was one of only two that signed up for it and the other guy decided not to ride so I didn't either. I'm no longer willing to start when either high winds or frozen precipitation are likely.
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Old 04-17-12, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rdtompki
I'm waiting for the first "HTFU". Brave ride you just did.
It wouldn't bother me if someone posted that. The way I look at it is that 5 riders did finish it. There's no shame is assaying they did a better job than me! I'm not too proud to admit that I can improve in every aspect but controlling the weather.

Originally Posted by unterhausen
One of the best things that ever happened to me on a randonnee was discovering that I had stashed a spare pair of gloves in my seat bag. My other gloves were soaked and it was snowing. Finished that one, but there were times when I wondered if I was going to live through it -- and I mean that in all seriousness.

I'm a lot more willing not to start nowadays. I was going to ride a 600k last year that promised thunderstorms for the entire ride, but I was one of only two that signed up for it and the other guy decided not to ride so I didn't either. I'm no longer willing to start when either high winds or frozen precipitation are likely.
I had two sets of gloves...both were soaked so I may purchase a pair that's waterproof. Not starting would have been the smart decision but I ride with a friend. We'd both have to agree and I don't think we were willing to pull the plug just yet.

Clearly, we learned a few lessons. It's all good.
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Old 04-17-12, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by k7baixo
I had two sets of gloves...both were soaked so I may purchase a pair that's waterproof.
that's the thing, the pair I didn't know I had with me was my third pair. There was a long discussion about gloves on the randon email list earlier this year. I never followed up on it, but there were a lot of ideas. I have always liked a shell and liners. That can be a real advantage in wet weather.
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Old 04-17-12, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
that's the thing, the pair I didn't know I had with me was my third pair. There was a long discussion about gloves on the randon email list earlier this year. I never followed up on it, but there were a lot of ideas. I have always liked a shell and liners. That can be a real advantage in wet weather.
Thanks. I'll poke around and see if I can find that thread.
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Old 04-17-12, 07:22 PM
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Well, if you were ever going to DNF a ride, it sounds like you picked a good one.

FYI, for various unusual circumstances, they can sometimes extend the time on intermediate checkpoints. If you're running late on an intermediate checkpoint, but still in good shape to go on, keep going and worry about it later. I'm not suggesting y'all should have done it there, but something to keep in mind for the future.
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Old 04-17-12, 10:20 PM
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Thanks. We were wondering about that too. If we weren't so wet, it might have been an option. I've learned a few lessons for future rides. Three who finished purchased hoodies ...never even dawned on me to do that. Extended time? Didn't know it was a possibility.
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Old 04-18-12, 05:56 AM
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From the RUSA rules:
"If a rider arrives at a checkpoint after it has closed and the ride organizer is satisfied that the rider's lateness is due to the occurrence of something unforeseen and beyond the control of the rider (such as a road closure or stopping to help at a traffic accident), then the ride organizer may waive the fact that the rider arrived at the control late and allow the rider to continue. Poor bicycle or equipment maintenance, fatigue, lack of fitness, hunger, etc. are not unforeseen and beyond the control of the rider and therefore will not serve as a valid reason for being late."

If I remember right, at the previous PBP, they extended some of the intermediate control times due to weather. They may have done that at the Texas Rando Stampede, I know they had checked into it, but not sure if they actually needed to. The issue there was wind. If you get to a control late, and you're just moving so slow you're going to be late on every other control thereafter, that's a good reason to DNF. But if you can reasonably get back in the game, that's a different situation.
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Old 04-18-12, 08:54 AM
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Thanks!

To be honest, I'm not sure I could have kept up for the rest of the ride. The wind just wore me down and I think my decision to call it a day was the right one. There were some good riders who also DNF'd so I suppose we were in good company but, I keep going back to the five that finished - that's where I want to be. I made a couple of mistakes and learn some valuable lessons in the process.

We'll work on our training to attempt to avoid this in the future. We hadn't had any issues at the 300 or 400-km distances but 600/1200 are completely different games. We'll get there.

Our next 600 is the Orange CA PCH Triple loop and that looks like a good next step. Lots of what they refer to as Class A bike paths and the climbing appears to be minimal esp for a 600.

After that, we *may* try the Grand Canyon 600. That one includes 19,000 ft of climbing which will be a stretch for us:

First 300 loop that has 9400 ft:


Second loop w/ 9500 ft:


I'm not making excuses but climbing on a recumbent is more difficult for me personally. That's something I'll work on before this event. It's all good!
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Old 04-18-12, 07:47 PM
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1. Sounds like you gave it everything you had, and that's all that can be asked of anyone. Sounds also like you've taken away some good from the experience, and that's more than most would do under the same circumstances, and that's also what'll put you in that group of finishers-of-rides-under-difficult-circumstances.

2. My take on PBP in '07 and '11 was that they simply were not enforcing the intermediary control times, period, at least for the 90-hour riders. I was in the 84-hour ride both times, and at a pace that put me at many of the controls when they were closed for anyone in the 90-hour group (yes, I know, and am accounting for, the fact that some 90 hour riders were 2-3 hours later than others due to their start times). Those controls were still open, and would be for a few more hours, for the 84-hour riders, so the volunteers were there anyway. I repeatedly saw riders trying to declare themselves out of time and being told "non, non!" get back on the road, you are ok, just make it to Paris in 90 hours and you will finish. A good friend of mine was an hour late to Villaines-la-Juehl in '11; he proceeded and finished in under 90 hours. Official, with pretty medal and all.

My unsolicited advice on the subject of "extra time" is, unless you hear it from the lips of the organizer himself, don't believe a word about "extra time" on a brevet. Ride as though all the control times apply, as written on your card. That said, unless a control worker takes your card from you and declares you out of time, keep riding.
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Old 04-18-12, 08:56 PM
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Thanks...I appreciate the input!
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Old 04-19-12, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by The Octopus
2. My take on PBP in '07 and '11 was that they simply were not enforcing the intermediary control times, period, at least for the 90-hour riders.
I missed the time at the next to last controle at PBP because I stopped and slept rather than fall off my bike. They just signed my card like nothing happened. I went back and looked at the official materials, and somewhere in there they say that there would be no analysis of your time at the controles because it's just too complicated. I had heard that they would forgive one missed controle, looking at the times I'm guessing it's more than that if you finish on time. The way they placed the second secret controle right after Loudiac, I hope they didn't pay any attention to the times there because they would catch a lot of people that slept late.

That experience really made me question how seriously we (seem to?) take intermediate controle times here in the U.S. I went on a 200k where there were constant 30mph headwinds with frequent 50mph gusts for the first half of the course. There were a couple of hours where I was lucky to go more than 5mph at nearly max effort. I missed a controle by 15 minutes. If that happened to me nowadays, I would just keep riding without even thinking twice about it.
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Old 04-19-12, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by StephenH
FYI, for various unusual circumstances, they can sometimes extend the time on intermediate checkpoints. If you're running late on an intermediate checkpoint, but still in good shape to go on, keep going and worry about it later. I'm not suggesting y'all should have done it there, but something to keep in mind for the future.
For extremely rare and unusual circumstances.

Officially, this is only supposed to happen if a rider stopped to help another rider who was in trouble (i.e. a bad accident ... not a flat tire) or if there was some sort of natural disaster (i.e. a landslide closes a road during the ride).
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Old 04-19-12, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by k7baixo
We'll work on our training to attempt to avoid this in the future. We hadn't had any issues at the 300 or 400-km distances but 600/1200 are completely different games. We'll get there.
For me, the 600K is the toughest of all the events. Even tougher than a 1200K.
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Old 04-19-12, 06:13 AM
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Makes me think of a bouldering expression "if you don't fall, you aren't trying hard enough". Sometimes a DNF is a sign that a person is challenging themselves. Being willing to push outside your comfort zone is nothing to be ashamed of - good for you!
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Old 04-19-12, 06:24 AM
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Audax Oz and RUSA both seem to be a bit nitpicky with intermediate control closing times. Audax UK ignores intermediate control times (and only suggests routes). ACP used to be fairly tight with control times but has become pragmatic and in the last couple of PBPs, officially nitpicky but actually quite relaxed.

It is a little annoying if you've busted a gut to stay inside the printed limits while somebody gets more sleep but in reality, what somebody else does isn't relevant to the validity of my ride.

I do wish that they'd get rid of the sliding minimum speed requirements at PBP. For quite a while, our group was riding very close to the time limit but finished with 5 hours in hand, all gained in the last two stages, despite actually slowing down to escort in some friends. The 1200+s I've ridden with a constant minimum speeds are much nicer, due to less sleep deprivation early on.
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Old 04-19-12, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka
For extremely rare and unusual circumstances
Exactly. And unforeseen.

My $0.02 is that terrible weather is almost never unforeseeable to the extent that extra time is warranted on a brevet. Assuming, or course, that the ride is started in the first place. I've seen one brevet in 8 seasons rescheduled due to weather -- a brevet in Oregon was postponed a week due to the risk of freezing rain (which did materialize and which also made for an awesome powder day in the mountains!).

But, once a brevet is underway, my experience has been that all's fair and there's no extra time for anything. I've ridden in snow. One 1200K was done in record heat and humidity (which DNF'd nearly half the field). I think the worst weather -- meaning most dangerous to riders -- is 30s and rain. Hypothermia is a killer. But if brevets were cancelled for that, or riders were given extra time, then whole swaths of the U.S. would pretty much be chucking the date-certain and time-limit rules of randonneuring out the window. As much as the weather at PBP in 2007 sucked -- it's just not a lot of fun to be wet for 4 days -- it was hardly unusual or unforeseeable. Brevets in the PNW and upper midwest typically are run in that weather. (Note, though, that Floridians had about the same finish rate in '07 as SIR did, which is pretty hilarious.) I imagine most Englishmen ride through that crap, too, on a fairly regular basis.

To bring all this home to the OP, as you get stronger on the bike -- and I don't necessarily mean "faster" -- your ability to endure lousy conditions will increase. You'll have greater physical reserves. The things that slow you down -- wind in your face; cold in your legs and lungs -- won't be as much of a factor. Greater physical reserves give a rider a better positive mental outlook on the ride: the rain isn't as wet, the cold isn't as cold, and the hills aren't as steep or long if they're not beating you up as much. You'll still have plenty of low points -- it's not all fun and roses out there all the time -- but the conditions that put you to the point of wanting to quit, or put you to where you're going to be out of time will be a lot worse than they were when you weren't as strong a randonneur.

There is something to be said for being "fast," though, when it comes to tough conditions. You're exposed to the wind or cold or heat or whatever for less time and, at the end of the day, it's time exposed to the condition that wears you down.
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Old 04-19-12, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by The Octopus
Exactly. And unforeseen.

My $0.02 is that terrible weather is almost never unforeseeable to the extent that extra time is warranted on a brevet. Assuming, or course, that the ride is started in the first place. I've seen one brevet in 8 seasons rescheduled due to weather -- a brevet in Oregon was postponed a week due to the risk of freezing rain (which did materialize and which also made for an awesome powder day in the mountains!).

But, once a brevet is underway, my experience has been that all's fair and there's no extra time for anything. I've ridden in snow. One 1200K was done in record heat and humidity (which DNF'd nearly half the field). I think the worst weather -- meaning most dangerous to riders -- is 30s and rain. Hypothermia is a killer. But if brevets were cancelled for that, or riders were given extra time, then whole swaths of the U.S. would pretty much be chucking the date-certain and time-limit rules of randonneuring out the window. As much as the weather at PBP in 2007 sucked -- it's just not a lot of fun to be wet for 4 days -- it was hardly unusual or unforeseeable. Brevets in the PNW and upper midwest typically are run in that weather. (Note, though, that Floridians had about the same finish rate in '07 as SIR did, which is pretty hilarious.) I imagine most Englishmen ride through that crap, too, on a fairly regular basis.

To bring all this home to the OP, as you get stronger on the bike -- and I don't necessarily mean "faster" -- your ability to endure lousy conditions will increase. You'll have greater physical reserves. The things that slow you down -- wind in your face; cold in your legs and lungs -- won't be as much of a factor. Greater physical reserves give a rider a better positive mental outlook on the ride: the rain isn't as wet, the cold isn't as cold, and the hills aren't as steep or long if they're not beating you up as much. You'll still have plenty of low points -- it's not all fun and roses out there all the time -- but the conditions that put you to the point of wanting to quit, or put you to where you're going to be out of time will be a lot worse than they were when you weren't as strong a randonneur.

There is something to be said for being "fast," though, when it comes to tough conditions. You're exposed to the wind or cold or heat or whatever for less time and, at the end of the day, it's time exposed to the condition that wears you down.
I agree - this is all "on me". I think one more layer on my chest, a much, much better set of gloves and shoe covers would have helped. And, if I'm honest, a little better engine tuning is necessary.

I've exchanged a few comments with our RUSA person and she's confirmed that they do not extend times except for those exceptions noted: road closure or stopping to help at a traffic accident. When we pulled the plug, we were late and our decision to stop was with the rules, as we understood them, in mind along with our overall condition i.e. cold and a little wet.

That's not to say that another rep might not handle it differently but in my (feeble) mind, I need to be better prepared to accepts the conditions as is/where is. Nothing more, nothing less.

I can also celebrate the small victories as I gain experience. On the upside, I think there were 7 riders to did better. 5 finished and what an accomplishment for them! It's a goal for me next time.

2 others DNF further into the course that we got. They did better at the end of the day. To DNF is a loss but I can learn, move on.....

.....and, HTFU.
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Old 04-20-12, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by k7baixo
I agree - this is all "on me". I think one more layer on my chest, a much, much better set of gloves and shoe covers would have helped.
At the beginning of last season an experienced randonneur told me that a good cycling vest is one of the most critical items of clothing. I picked one up (there are a variety of good vests (aka gilets)), and indeed, I now think it is one of my most important pieces of cycling clothing. Being able to use it to layer or deflect wind makes it very versatile and useful.
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Old 04-20-12, 08:41 AM
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Thanks Wesley - I'll give that some serious consideration. We'll try another 600 next weekend in SoCal - I think that might make a good purchase for it.
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Old 04-20-12, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by k7baixo
... . To DNF is a loss ...
NO, to die is a loss.

Everything else is a win.

EV - VER - REE - THING.
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Old 04-20-12, 12:31 PM
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These overmitts:
https://www.aerostich.com/aerostich-t...it-covers.html
Put them on before your insulating gloves get wet and put the gauntlets inside your jacket sleeves.

These booties:
https://www.rei.com/product/725342/su...r-bike-booties
They aren't the warmest, but they are relatively thin and will fit in a jersey pocket.

If it's going to be miserable the whole way, the Only Thing are Lake MTB boots:
https://www.lakecycling.com/footwear.html

On your ankles, you use Bare Drysuit Ankle Seals, these:
https://northeastscubasupply.com/stor...prod_6466.html
or google. They go over the tops of your Lakes and keep water from running down your legs into them. Still, a pair of dry wool socks in a ziplock is always a good idea. This combo is what I wear in the PNW winters (and fall and spring), where 33° and sleeting is not unknown. One ride we went on was so bad that the people who actually finished were riding single-speed because their cassettes were a block of ice with only the one cog clear. We were wise and bailed.

Rainlegs:
https://www.rainlegs.com/en/home
are really, really good in sleet.

So that's how you do it. I should say that there is a thread among randos that says that the more miserable the experience is, the better one is for it. That thread is over-represented on the web. I know a lot more randos who have taken a vow to only have fun and not be miserable again than I know folks who go out for the misery. That said, if one is into ultra racing and loves it then one has already self-selected for the misery part.


The white streaks are graupel.
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Old 04-20-12, 02:51 PM
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My wife is gonna hunt you down and take you out now esp if she sees me with an Aerostich catalog again!

I'll save my pennies for next year esp since our organizer has a habit of selecting weekends that have atrocious weather. Last year, there was one rider who had to be rescued - he was suffering from hypothermia.

Over on the AZRandon list, someone posted this comment:
Fair-weather riding is a luxury reserved for Sunday afternoons and wide boulevards. Those who ride in foul weather – be it cold, wet, or inordinately hot – are members of a special club of riders who, on the morning of a big ride, pull back the curtain to check the weather and, upon seeing rain falling from the skies, allow a wry smile to spread across their face. This is a rider who loves the work.

Hats off the the AZ and Canadian Randonnueurs who faced off against weather, entered the arena, and didn't shy away from this epic.
I wasn't successful so I can't take credit for anything other than, upon seeing the rain & wind at 0430 that morning, smiled & told my buddy, "Well, we wanted an adventure, right?"
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