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Marin and Performance bike Scammed Me

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Old 03-10-18, 08:50 PM
  #51  
linberl
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Originally Posted by Bmach View Post
Linberl, I was the first one to respond to the op and that was his reply to me. Maybe that has a lot to do with why I said what I did.
I understand but I also get his frustration as well. He doesn't know how it happened, he believes no one touched it at his work, that it wasn't there before his ride, and he didn't do anything to cause it. If it didn't come that way from the shop, then it clearly isn't their fault. Whether it's a manufacturing defect or not - damned if I know. But as humans we all have a need to find reasons to explain stuff...

He didn't say anything nasty to you in his comments so that's why I felt your response was a bit over the top. His comments were directed to General Venting ;-)
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Old 03-10-18, 09:03 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Whether it's a manufacturing defect or not - damned if I know. But as humans we all have a need to find reasons to explain stuff...
For decades, the high-end bikes have been made with really thin tubing. They may look solid, but it doesn't take much of a whack to dent them. Still, it doesn't just happen with ordinary every day riding. And the demand for light bikes will maintain the demand for thin tubes.

The problem here is that the OP discovered a dent in his bike. And, it is a pretty significant dent. He doesn't remember denting it. So the next step is to remember when it was last seen without the dent.

It is possible the dent occurred while riding. Gunshot, rock kicked up by a car, etc... but unlikely. And one would think someone would notice if one's bike is hit by a rock or something.

So, the next option is that the dent happened prior to the last ride, and the OP just noticed it after the ride. Yes, the OP says he did a cleaning or cursory inspection, but it is easy to miss something that one isn't expecting.

So, the most likely thing that happened was that the bike fell over on something prior to the last ride.

Perhaps a co-worker accidentally knocked the bike over, and picked it up without thinking anything more of it, but the fated dent was there, unnoticed.
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Old 03-10-18, 09:40 PM
  #53  
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"Immaculate indentation".
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Old 03-11-18, 09:14 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
What I got from the post is the OP does not know how it happened and he's just reaching for an answer to explain something he personally did not cause.
Nothing wrong with that. But until he finds the answer, shouldn't he refrain from placing blame on the shop and manufacturer. Shouldn't he refrain from publicly calling them scammers and evil doers, since he has no explanation for the dent?
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Old 03-11-18, 09:37 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet View Post
Nothing wrong with that. But until he finds the answer, shouldn't he refrain from placing blame on the shop and manufacturer. Shouldn't he refrain from publicly calling them scammers and evil doers, since he has no explanation for the dent?
He thought he had figured out an answer. Right or wrong, that is what he thought. he based it on the answer he arrived at, it kind of makes sense (setting aside whether the answer was correct or not).
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Old 03-11-18, 10:19 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
He thought he had figured out an answer. Right or wrong, that is what he thought. he based it on the answer he arrived at, it kind of makes sense (setting aside whether the answer was correct or not).

No, he didn't. Read his post again. And his later posts. He is emphatic in saying that the vacuum idea was just a random possibility, not a claim of fact, and that he does not actually know what caused it.

He repeats, numerous times, that he does not know what caused it.

Since he doesn't know what did cause it, how can he know it's Performance or Marin's fault?

If he took the bike to some laboratory and had it inspected and the verdict was that it was a freak anomaly caused by defective tubing or construction methods, then sure, he should voice his unhappiness.

But the fact of the matter is that currently, he has no understanding, let alone evidence, that the dent is a "Defect".

He's using a faulty process of elimination to conclude that it's a defect. He knows that he did not dent the tube. Fine. He didn't. Knowing that he didn't dent the tube, he jumps directly to "The tube dented itself".

1. He's calling Marin and Performance "Scammers"
2. He's calling Performance lazy an "useless". Performance inspected the bike, took photos, and submitted a claim for him. Within 24 hours. They did their job.
3. He's claiming that Marin makes and sells "Bull**** self imploding products".
4. He claims that the Marin Vincenza is a "Faulty bike".

He has no evidence to make such bold and slanderous claims.
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Old 03-11-18, 10:25 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet View Post
No, he didn't. Read his post again. And his later posts. He is emphatic in saying that the vacuum idea was just a random possibility, not a claim of fact, and that he does not actually know what caused it.

He repeats, numerous times, that he does not know what caused it.

Since he doesn't know what did cause it, how can he know it's Performance or Marin's fault?

If he took the bike to some laboratory and had it inspected and the verdict was that it was a freak anomaly caused by defective tubing or construction methods, then sure, he should voice his unhappiness.

But the fact of the matter is that currently, he has no understanding, let alone evidence, that the dent is a "Defect".

He's using a faulty process of elimination to conclude that it's a defect. He knows that he did not dent the tube. Fine. He didn't. Knowing that he didn't dent the tube, he jumps directly to "The tube dented itself".

1. He's calling Marin and Performance "Scammers"
2. He's calling Performance lazy an "useless". Performance inspected the bike, took photos, and submitted a claim for him. Within 24 hours. They did their job.
3. He's claiming that Marin makes and sells "Bull**** self imploding products".
4. He claims that the Marin Vincenza is a "Faulty bike".

He has no evidence to make such bold and slanderous claims.
I guess I didn't take his comments quite so literally, more of a rant/vent than accusation. Btw it would be libel not slander, since it was in print, just fyi. I definitely see your point, but I just consider it part of an over the top human reaction rather than an egregious accusation. That said, I never intended to defend the OP - I just reacted to someone wishing him financial harm.
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Old 03-11-18, 10:41 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
I guess I didn't take his comments quite so literally, more of a rant/vent than accusation. Btw it would be libel not slander, since it was in print, just fyi. I definitely see your point, but I just consider it part of an over the top human reaction rather than an egregious accusation. That said, I never intended to defend the OP - I just reacted to someone wishing him financial harm.
I guess I just take it so literally because he's not just throwing around a bunch of colorful adjectives to describe his own anger, disappointment and frustration. Which would be fine. It's the accusatory tone coupled with the specific and detailed (misplaced in the case of Performance) blame. He seems unwilling to consider any possible cause other than defect.

I responded to your post, partially because of your comment about no need to be mean, which I agree with. I see the OPs rant as very mean spirited with intent to harm.

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Old 03-11-18, 10:59 AM
  #59  
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Impact or not, if it was so light that OP didn't notice it maybe there is some cause for concern about the structural integrity of the frame to begin with. Say, you bumped it somehow, normal use and not hard, and it caused a dent in a weak spot.

I don't see how Marin could warranty it, because it does appear to be an impact dent, unless it came to you that way and you never noticed until Wendy's. It's possible ...
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Old 03-11-18, 11:26 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet View Post
No, he didn't. Read his post again. And his later posts. He is emphatic in saying that the vacuum idea was just a random possibility, not a claim of fact, and that he does not actually know what caused it.

He repeats, numerous times, that he does not know what caused it.

Since he doesn't know what did cause it, how can he know it's Performance or Marin's fault?

If he took the bike to some laboratory and had it inspected and the verdict was that it was a freak anomaly caused by defective tubing or construction methods, then sure, he should voice his unhappiness.

But the fact of the matter is that currently, he has no understanding, let alone evidence, that the dent is a "Defect".
He's using a faulty process of elimination to conclude that it's a defect. He knows that he did not dent the tube. Fine. He didn't. Knowing that he didn't dent the tube, he jumps directly to "The tube dented itself".

1. He's calling Marin and Performance "Scammers"
2. He's calling Performance lazy an "useless". Performance inspected the bike, took photos, and submitted a claim for him. Within 24 hours. They did their job.
3. He's claiming that Marin makes and sells "Bull**** self imploding products".
4. He claims that the Marin Vincenza is a "Faulty bike".

He has no evidence to make such bold and slanderous claims.
Precisely. Hence my comment (snark intended) that he is obviously not a scientist. A particular college degree does not make one a scientist; consistent use of the scientific method does make one a scientist. And the scientific method requires more than just a hypothesis - it also requires testing and evidence.
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Old 03-11-18, 11:34 AM
  #61  
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I have almost the same dent in my Surly LHT.

It fell against a corner of a cabinet.

A little ice and a hair dryer reduced it by 75%.

I think someone knocked your bike over at work.
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Old 03-11-18, 11:53 AM
  #62  
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This is all wallyworlds fault. I believe you could saw a frame in two and return it for full refund with no questions asked there and similar big box stores by just by screaming "DEFECTIVE!" The popular practice of transmitting defamatory and false statements against what seem to me to be very reasonable manufacturer and retailer polices is just begging for snark IMHO.
Carry on!
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Old 03-11-18, 02:44 PM
  #63  
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OP hasn't been back in awhile and I expect by now he's feeling pretty foolish. OP, as the originator of the thread you can ask a mod to delete the entire thread. Otherwise, there is a good chance it will come back to haunt you
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Old 03-11-18, 02:50 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Impact or not, if it was so light that OP didn't notice it maybe there is some cause for concern about the structural integrity of the frame to begin with. Say, you bumped it somehow, normal use and not hard, and it caused a dent in a weak spot.

I don't see how Marin could warranty it, because it does appear to be an impact dent, unless it came to you that way and you never noticed until Wendy's. It's possible ...
I think it would depend on the intended use of the bike. There is quite an "arms race" to make road bikes lighter, and thus thinner tubing. It probably isn't pointed out anywhere, but there is a range of acceptable use for road bikes on the road... beyond that they aren't guaranteed.

This could have been a much sadder story if it had been a carbon fiber bike that took the same impact.

Mountain Bikes, on the other hand, are expected to take abuse, so a big dent from falling on a desk might, in fact, be reason for a warranty claim. Even carbon fiber MTBs should take quite a bit of abuse.

Originally Posted by FBOATSB View Post
This is all wallyworlds fault. I believe you could saw a frame in two and return it for full refund with no questions asked there and similar big box stores by just by screaming "DEFECTIVE!" The popular practice of transmitting defamatory and false statements against what seem to me to be very reasonable manufacturer and retailer polices is just begging for snark IMHO.
Carry on!
Return policies are different from store to store. There are stories that REI has a 1-year satisfaction guaranteed warranty. So it is quite possible that REI would have taken the bike back.

I do, however, discourage people from abusing the policies, otherwise they may just quietly go away for everyone.
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Old 03-11-18, 02:55 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
OP hasn't been back in awhile and I expect by now he's feeling pretty foolish. OP, as the originator of the thread you can ask a mod to delete the entire thread. Otherwise, there is a good chance it will come back to haunt you
Or it could be moved to FOO

There has been a certain amount of humor that came with it.
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Old 03-11-18, 04:39 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
OP hasn't been back in awhile and I expect by now he's feeling pretty foolish. OP, as the originator of the thread you can ask a mod to delete the entire thread. Otherwise, there is a good chance it will come back to haunt you
Actually, any OP can completely delete their own thread with a couple of mouse clicks, no need to bother a mod, I do this whenever I'm feeling pretty foolish
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Old 03-12-18, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I think it would depend on the intended use of the bike. There is quite an "arms race" to make road bikes lighter, and thus thinner tubing. It probably isn't pointed out anywhere, but there is a range of acceptable use for road bikes on the road... beyond that they aren't guaranteed.
True. I am assuming that the Marin is a mid to entry level road bike, not intended as the feather-light high performance bike but I don't really know them and could be wrong.

This might be a golden opportunity for OP to purchase a compatible carbon fiber frame and move his parts over.
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Old 03-12-18, 01:37 PM
  #68  
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You know how when some people lose something, they just assume they misplaced it, and other people immediately start accusing people of stealing it?

Guess which type this guy is.
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Old 03-12-18, 02:49 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
Guess which type this guy is.
The third type...

Swallowed up by a micro-black hole.

One of those weird spacial anomalies that Star Trek keeps running into?

Perhaps an invasion of packrats.
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Old 03-13-18, 09:00 AM
  #70  
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Irony: Bike arrived with micro dent. Am I being ridiculous?
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Old 03-13-18, 01:37 PM
  #71  
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What a hoot
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Old 03-13-18, 06:56 PM
  #72  
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How about taking it to "dent Genie" or some other automobile dent and or hail place. Maybe they can do something to help. It is worth a try. Don't know how they would get one of their tools in there to manipulate the dent out. Maybe dry ice on the tube ? Sort of like getting that first door ding in a new car.
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