I'm honored and thrilled to be a part of this. I hope I can be of use!

http://www.ncnca.org/ncncapage/ncnca-womens-committee

Wishing you great luck in getting more women out on the course, Sara.

Very cool, Sara.

Sara, nice!

@revchuck, the Langster is definitely a good track bike. I see a fair number of them at the local velodrome. The key issue is getting a reasonable road fit from a track bike for your main purpose. If you can get close enough and if there's the possibility of track training and/or racing in your future, then go for it.

Chuck, this is my Raliegh Rush Hour in fixie/winter trim. I added a longer stem and flipped it up. There is still a fair saddle/bar drop and the longer reach allows for riding the drops for extended time. You could do similar to the Langster with a 42 or 44" ring and longer stem.

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps0qxy7fau.jpg

Cleave - Thanks!

AJ - I don't know how I missed this, I guess the automatic notification thingy didn't work. I like the way you have the Raleigh set up, and I have the same saddle (in white) on my '87 Centurion Ironman. I spoke with my coach about it, and she said that it wouldn't be a good idea right now since I'm out of base and into the build period. I think I'll get one in the future, in time for next year's base period or maybe a little sooner.

In other news, I touched my front tire to the rear tire of the guy in front of me in a paceline yesterday, and lived to tell about it. We were going ~22 mph into a quartering (from the right) headwind, and the right spot for shelter was about a foot to the left of the guy in front of me and with the leading edge of my front tire somewhere between the trailing edge of his rear tire and the end of his frame. A dog jumped out from the right, he moved over to the left, and there was about a second of whirr as our tires rubbed. I had time to think, "Okay, here's where I crash," and we separated and kept going. I didn't have time to freak out; I think I instinctively steered into it but can't be sure. More likely it was just dumb luck that kept me upright.

Question: I know that in a nose-to-tail paceline that one should keep about a foot or so between bikes. All I know about echelonning is what I've seen in race pictures, where it's a bit closer and overlap appears common. I was the last wheel at that time, and was pretty close to the yellow line. Should I have stayed farther back and just sucked up the extra wind?

It depends on your confidence level. It's much better to give yourself some extra room than put yourself in a position where you, and others, can get hurt. I will typically overlap in an echelon, sometimes significantly, and in a straight line I'll get a lot closer than a foot in the right conditions, but I'm pretty confident out there. The key to recovering from a wheel touch is keeping your upper body, shoulders, and hands loose. I've had my front wheel turned almost 90 degrees in the middle of a criterium and stayed up. Bikes going fast in a straight line want to go straight. It's the pilot at the helm that keeps that from happening.

Bauge will show you have its done. I had a similar incident a few weeks ago when I hit an elevated piece of pavement with my front wheel. The rear went left and I was 45 degrees to the pavement. I thought for sure I was going down but saved it - lucky.


BTW, the racer who fell came out of the sprinters lane and hit Bauge.

On a fixed gear no less.

Here is a map from the Washington Post. I love when "someone" rates states.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps75f27474.png

Interesting. DC is not on the map. (Yes, I know it's not a "State")
Maybe it's been nuked (win!)

I used to live in DC. One can lump it in with either MD or VA - AIDS or Motorcycle Deaths. Also, the "most corrupt" seems to be available and fitting.

There are two parts up there. First, on a training ride, unless I'm supremely confident of a number of things (my bike handling, my bike's condition, road conditions, escape/bailout spots, importantness of ride) I'll back off pretty quickly on a group ride. One of the main things that I find is that riders tend to sit to the left side of the rider in front, regardless of the wind, at least in the US. This leads to the riders near the back ending up way out in the road. I try to break the rhythm by sitting to the right, to sort of "reset" that tendency. Sometimes it works. If the wind is really bad from the right then I try to set the pace, if I'm strong enough, and purpose ride in the weeds on the right to give the most shelter/room. Either that or I push really hard so that everyone is strung out single file. Around here the straights aren't long enough that this is a problem. When I trained in Gainesville or in Vegas there were miles and miles and miles where the wind was super strong from the side and it was miserable.

Second, once my front wheel touches hard, I basically try to keep going in the same direction. Most of my front wheel touches have been in turns, where someone typically turns in much harder than the rest of the group in, say, a hairpin corner in a crit. That rider's rear wheel then crosses my front wheel. This happened a couple times at one particular crit, and both times I was on the drops, I had some decent weight on the front wheel, and I kept my front wheel planted and directionally stable. In fact, when I went to look for one incident on the helmet cam there was nothing dramatic about the footage so I skipped it in the clip. It would have been nice had I looked down or something but I didn't and so there was nothing to see. My head doesn't move much at all and I think that if I didn't say "there, that's when he hit" no one would be able to tell that my front wheel had contacted another rider's rear wheel, and pretty hard at that.

I've never been able to relax and "let the front wheel bounce off the other wheel". I've always had to have a firm grip on the bars and to drive through whatever obstacle.

In a notable front wheel touch incidents I took the finish off of my friend's hub axle spacers on the left side because I hit him so hard and for so long when we were doing huge efforts and then he slammed on the brakes when he saw a dog (until that moment I didn't know he had a phobia about dog bites). My front tire hit his axle so hard my rear wheel lifted. I never hit my brakes but we went from the 30-35 mph range to about 15 mph. Neither of us went down. And of course the dog stopped and turned around.

Another incident was similar but it was on the cassette side. It was a big group (Gimbels) and I was purposely following a pro rider super closely. It was probably not smart, and I wouldn't do it again, but my tire was literally an inch or two behind his cassette - I was trying to keep the tire between his derailleur cable housing and his spokes. We were going about 25-28 mph, maybe 50 riders back from the front. Someone way up ahead braked, everyone slowed, and the pro braked. My tire hit hard enough that it had tooth marks on the sidewall. I was fine. I think the pro was surprised when his bike shot forward a few inches when I hit him. I don't know him enough to talk to him but he never gave me flak about it.

The only way to practice wheel touching, I think, is to do it with like-minded riders on grass at low speeds. We did this a long time ago, like 25+ years ago. Until I "led" the handling clinics for our collegiate team I'd never practiced touching wheels. I quickly learned and taught the others. We set a gear limit of a 42x21 (now it would be maybe a 39x21 or so). We first fell then we worked on not falling, however we had to do it. Most of us needed to power through the contact. I don't remember a single rider who was able to "glance off the tire in front", which was what all the bike magazines and books said to do.

The other thing you can do to avoid going down is to pull the bike bike quickly. The best way to do this is to stand up very quickly - it shoots the bike back a good foot or so, and if someone is crossing your bow you might be able to do that quick enough to clear that other rider. The only issue is that you end up shoving your rear wheel back a foot and if the rider behind you is super close then you're just moving the problem down the line. On a hill this is a typical way to deal with an overlapped wheel - the rider in front is struggling, weaves a bit, you stand a bit higher and more forward for a moment, ease off the pedals, clear the tire in front of you, and then keep pedaling. It's not a big deal on steeper, slower climbs, and I routinely do this on hills on group rides without any contact occurring.

I'm sure I've done the latter in crits at speed but I don't remember specific instances. It'd be in the final throes of a crit, though, when everything is way closer to the edge in terms of what guys try to do to move up or hold position.

Thanks, CDR!

I've touched wheels accidentally 4 times, and am batting .500. First time was a group ride when only two of us showed up. We shared the work for 50 miles or so, frequently overlapped.. but near the end, I didn't know we were about to turn, and the other guy slid over onto my wheel to start the turn. No signal for the turn - he thought I knew it was coming up. I went down pretty hard, but nothing broken but an RD hangar. Shoulder was a mess for awhile though. Second time was a charity ride.. climbing in a group, someone moved over onto my wheel. I stayed calm, and stayed up, though my heart was pounding. Next time was in a RR. Two man break. I was drafting close as we came to a cattle crossing. He slowed when I didn't expect him to. Really nice sound of carbon spinning against carbon, but again, HR elevated, but I stayed calm and upright. That was somewhere between 25 and 30, and would have definitely left a mark. Then was last January, in a CA RR, 45+, with Ex in the field. Still don't know for sure exactly what happened, but post-mortem says I tried to shift over to fill a gap, but did so a bit slowly, allowing a guy to close it off. His wheel hit mine. I was able to disengage, but did it too strongly, which put me into a guy on my left, who pushed me back into the other guy's wheel. I actually disengaged a second time, but my bars weren't pointed the direction I was going, and I flipped over. Ex informed me that I was bunny-hopped by a world champion. :thumb: That is the only time something I helped instigate took someone else out as well (no, not the bunny hopper) but thankfully whomever it was got back on his bike and kept racing.

For me, there is no time to think about leaning the right way or anything else. You just react, either correctly or incorrectly trying to keep your balance, and a lot of what determines the outcome may not be in your control. I'd love to practice wheel touches, but there just aren't that many people who respond affirmatively to a request to go out and play in that fashion. I've read that you should initially shift your weight into the oner bike, and that may be the same as CDR's powering through it. My successful engagement had a similar feel - keeping it straight, then disengaging.

Another trick you can use to back out of an overlapped wheel situation is to blip the brakes with the power on. Let's say you are in the field going up a hill or through a turn and an attack goes on your blocked in side. You don't want to coast. You need the power on, but you have to get around the wheel in front of you quickly. Keep the power on and blip the brakes, kind of the bicycle equivalent of heel and toe in a manual shift vehicle. You'll extract yourself much quicker and safer. You can practice this on those hammerfest group rides when there are attacks. Signal your intention in the group rides. Don't try that in races :).

I'm overlapping wheels all the time in fast criteriums. It's inevitable. Part of your sphere. Embrace it.

All good advice above on how to possibly get out of trouble when overlapping wheels. A few comments.

I did the grassy field exercises when I was Junior racer. Falling down on grass when I was 16 wasn't a problem. I expect that it can be a very different story when you're in your 50s or 60s with a fair amount more mass. YMMV. :)

I always like the idea of prevention better correction. Of course you need to know what to do, but here are a couple of my strategies for staying out of trouble:

While training, I don't overlap wheels in tight quarters. I may overlap in an echelon, but I keep a lateral gap of 1 foot or more between my front wheel and the rear wheel that I'm following. Also, I don't follow extra close in most group ride situations. If I'm in a small group with people that I know are good riders (won't over-react, etc), then I'll ride closer. However, for any training situation, remember it's a training ride -- risk versus reward. If I get dropped because I wasn't getting a good enough draft, c'est la vie.

Racing is a slightly different story. I will follow very close directly behind someone in the pack. I overlap closely only if the person in front of me has someone close next to him or if I have a good escape route. Another overlap strategy is to overlap far enough forward where your handlebars are at least up to the leading rider's hip. That way if he moves, he hits your bars rather than your wheel. It's much easier to deal with that kind of contact rather than wheel-to-wheel contact. My sphere is a bit larger than shovelhd's sphere but he's better than I am anyway. :)

On the recovery side of things, the best advice I know comes from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, "Don't panic."

My most memorable contact was one of my last races in the northeast before I moved to California, the Hartford Criterium. Last turn, last lap: wide, right-hand corner -- guy inside me sweeps out and his rear wheels slams into my front wheel. As AzTR noted from his incidents, you don't remember exactly what you did but I had some friends watching in that corner. They said I turned in and then shoulder-checked him away from me. All I remember coming to a stop before the line with half a dozen broken spokes on my front wheel (36 spokes back in those days) and some gouges in the aluminum rim.

Every year I manage to have some kind of contact but using the above strategies, it's usually some kind of body-to-body or body-to-handlebar contact. Don't panic.

My best staying up memory was breaking several front spokes running over a teammates head in our VOS practice race last year. A bike went airborne and sailed into him, directly ahead of me. Front tire hit his helmet, and thankfully slid to the pavement side rather than to his neck side, or really bad things could have happened. I have no clue how I stayed up, but have a very vivid memory of laying my bike down and running back to him, thinking I had just killed someone.

Me: "Dude! Are you okay? I just ran over your head!"
Him: "I noticed."

With a comeback like that, I knew he was okay. That incident was a major fubar started by a junior no longer with the team, tangling with an experienced guy but one who isn't really agile. Kid is a major talent I expect to read about in the future, but he hadn't yet learned that what is beside and behind him matters.

If we all added up our near misses, well... let's not do that.

Casual group rides. Scary. Hammerfest group rides with unknown triathlete people in the pack....stay home. I learned that one last August.

Two wheel touches, me. Admission number one - in the 40K RR at PSG last year, last lap, last turn. Gal who I had been marking suddenly slowed when I expected her to jump (because someone else had jumped). Whap. I stayed up, went right, scared the crap out of another rider, and took second in the ensuing sprint.

Number two - following a wheel closely, like a few inches, in a fast group ride. That wheel slowed, I couldn't react fast enough, and bounced off (I think). No one went down, and no one said anything.

I think I was lucky that I stayed up in both instances, because I am not skilled enough to save it!

I don't like to overlap wheels, I don't trust anyone to not do something unexpected. However, as has been said, it's inevitable. There was lots of wheel overlap everywhere on the course in the Menlo Park crit last year, but no one did anything squirrely (even me) so I was comfortable with that.

I want to point out that just because I talk a good talk it doesn't mean I don't hit the deck either. Luckily for me I even have proof of it, in HD.

I've changed a video setting on a clip to share with you guys because I'm being nice. I avoided sharing this publicly because of the potential flak. Backstory - I crashed twice recently, and before these incidents I fell in about 2000-2002 (not sure what year - I unclipped sprinting out of a turn in a crit and almost saved it but then high sided over the bike) and then before that it was 1992 or so (but I had crashed maybe 15-20 times on the road between 1982-1992, for 5 years in training, for 5 years in races, virtually all the training crashes my fault and solo, and I can't think of a single race crash that I caused).

Anyway I had a pretty good run of safety going into 2009. Some close calls of course but no road rash for forever except that one unclip thing. In Aug 2009 someone made a dangerous and intentional move which took me out. No warning, it was like the guy got hit by a truck and went sideways, except he made the swerve on his own. One turn left in the Tuesday night race, sprinting for a soda, and he and I were 3rd/4th wheel but in staggered formation. I went down hard, fractured my pelvis in two spots, first broken bone in my life, wheelchair for a bit, etc. To be fair another guy also broke a bunch of bones, there were a couple broken wheels, etc. It was a massive crash, taking out most of the 25-30 rider field.

Then in May 2010 on a training ride I went down. A teammate and I were chatting, we let a gap open up, and we sprinted across it. Since it was the "horsing around" part of the ride I figured we'd go blowing by the others and then ease up. I looked to make sure traffic was clear, looked again, and oops, I hit him hard because he slowed to their speed really hard. He was going 14 or 15 mph, I was going about 30 when I hit the brakes. I wasn't near prepared and couldn't do anything - I couldn't drive through him, hitting him way up on the bike, I couldn't turn, and I was already veering the wrong way, expecting to pass on the left.

Anyway I'm making the video unprivate and simply unlisted. It has 22 views. If it gets a bit too much I'll privatize it but for now here it is (I made the clip for team members and those who were on the ride that day, as well as curious friends):

That was a Tuesday night ride. I went to CVS on the way to the dinner after (we all ate together after), dressed my wounds in the bathroom feeling like the Terminator, and then sat and ate. Most of the guys didn't even know I crashed. On that Sunday I removed the last of the Tegaderm, I was all healed. I did the Tour of Somerville the next day and I was so worried about crashing on my virgin skin that I used everything I had to stay near the front.

So all the practice in the world won't keep you gyroscopically upright but it does improve your chances.

^ oh my teammate did 1600w in that jump. Astounded me as I went pretty hard and I couldn't even come close to staying with him (I was doing in the 1200-1300w range peak). I had the heavy Jet wheels which I've since learned they absorb my jump like an enormous sponge.

CDR, that was pretty hard to watch.....

I am so glad you both came out of it okay.

It IS a pretty bike!

:)

It was a bad move on my part, that's for sure.

My teammate TJ was funny, talking to the concerned people that came running to the door of their house.

Ironically a non-teammate on that ride is now my teammate.

Also ironic, or maybe not - that was my only group ride with the team. Only one. It's a scheduling thing, and that day I had a pass since we normally go racing Tuesday evening so we'd already "budgeted" riding time for that evening (and dinner after). It's just that I went on my own instead of with the Missus.

I was laying in bed trying to get to sleep and all sorts of Bethel stuff was running through my head. Due to the tenant thing everything has been delayed and now there's all sorts of stuff that I'm going to have to do to try and make things work out. Ultimately I guess the town wants the race but I really, really don't want to fight with this guy every year. Unless something dramatically changes with the tenant (he's lease committed to 2019 so unless he goes bankrupt I don't see it changing), or I can't find a different venue, this may be the last Series at that location.

*edit - Of course I wrote that post while I was doing Bethel stuff. Which is what I'm doing now, since I can't sleep anymore, which is what I meant to say at the end of that post.