ed 

Okay, I didn't want to post this under "training and nutrition" b/c I didn't think MTB'ers spent much time there. I didn't want to post it under general MTB'ing, b/c I didn't want a bunch of 13 y.o. FR/DJ'ers to just tell me to go out and drink Mountain Dew and lift weights.

I usually ride around 10-20 miles of moderate Kansas singletrack at a time. Some decent climbs, but nothing too huge. Sometimes I ride with an XC racer friend of mine and if I try to keep up, I get toasted after 10 miles. I plan on going to Arkansas next spring/summer to ride the Womble epic trail that is 37 miles of Arkansas mountains/hills not with Racer-boy, but maybe with people.

Anyway, how do I get fit so that I can not only complete it, but enjoy it as well? How the heck do I train so that I can at least keep my XC friend in my sites? How can I become a little more of a competitive racer...endurance-wise?

I'm married with a kid and 1 more on the way, so I only get to do 2-4 rides per week varying from 1-2hrs each. I work at a hospital, so I have access to a gym 5 days per week.

Here's kinda my plan...lemme know what I need to do (if anything) to alter it to make my goals.

Weekly group rides are Tues and Friday

I can usually get out once in between there and once or twice on Sat and Sun.

I will ride Tues, Fri, Sat, Sun...lift heavy weights / low reps on Monday and Wed., and rest whenever I can.

Lifting days = high protiens and carb replacement after workouts.

Roxter

Well first of all, you could be doing the wrong kind of workouts. Dont bother with the curling and stuff, thats useless for XC biking. Squats are the big thing. Another one is where you lean over with the bar in both hands, and pull it from the ground up to your chest, that works for when you pull up on the bars on steep climbs. For endurance, do some road riding, dont stick to all mountain biking. When you road ride you can get twice as much riding in in half the time. Try to ride in hilly places with lots of steep climbs, do the climb halfway and then come back down and keep doing that till you think you've got nothing left in your legs, then go all the way to the top and come down.

ed 

Yeah, when I said "lift weights", I meant leg press and squats. I don't want to do any upper body stuff. I'm trying to keep the upper body mass down to keep overall weight down.

sarsparilla

get out on the road and ride, ride, ride. The first time that I heard this I was like "what help will the road do, I'm mountain biking" but road riding has helped my endurance a ton. I would also say to wait on doing the weights until the offseason.

C Law

There is no substitute for more time on the bike I have found. Also long distance endurance is something that is built up over many years, at least in my experience.

Here are a few tips (edit: to echo what sarparilla said about the road)

1. Get out on the road and ride hard and long. replace 2 of the four rides per week with road rides. I would be willing to bet your racer friend trains on the road.

2. you need to get more time in the saddle. If you can't then progress will be slower

3. If you must be in the gym, use the stairmaster and use a nice big range of motion instead of those short little steps. great xtraining

4. make sure and get your rest. I like a nice 3-4 day rest every month or so. Keeps you fresh.

These are just pointers of course and the devil is in the details with these things

LowCel 

I wouldn't even mess with the gym this time of year, save that for the off season. During the season you are better off using your days off as rest days. The days that you do ride just ride as long as you can. Riding on the road as much as possible will probably help you more than anything else you could do to reach the goals you have stated.

Believe it or not during race season I very rarely ever even ride my mountain bike. Other than on race day I only get on my mountain bike once every two or three weeks. To get better / faster my time is better spent on the road bike.

sarsparilla

So true, I am on my mtb once a week other than race day and that is for the shop fun ride. I am still usually on the road bike later in the day because the fun ride isn't too demanding.

ed 

Well, I can put more time in the saddle...but I can't spend my bike time riding the road. I think I would shoot myself. My main goal with biking is to go out and have a good time riding. If I can keep up with my racer-buddy (who actually only rides the road when the trails are wet and muddy) that's awesome, but I'm not going to spend all of my time out on the road just to make my 1 Epic trail ride next summer better.

My brother-in-law has a co-worker that races XC. He spends 90% or more of his time on a road bike. He has all kinds of stamina, but his technical skills are aweful. He was talking about some of the things that "cost him the race" like he wiped out on a log that was 18" or so in diameter. If he would spend more time on his MTB, he could have just bunnyhopped the thing.

Do you guys find yourselves lacking in the technical department or is that 5% or so enough to stay smooth, are the courses you race fairly groomed? So many people that I converse with think that a tough MTB course has to do with more climbing and more distance. They take out all of the obstacles. I don't mind more climbing and distance, but MTB should be a technical challenge.

We're getting ready to have a regional on my local trails and the Comissioner went in with a chainsaw and took out 50% of the log crossings. He said that we can build new ones after the race. It is so anoying when they turn a perfectly good MTB course into a Road Course with a little dirt on it. Especially when you are the one who did hours of work and got all of your work checked out and okay'd by the land manager.

LowCel 

It won't just make your one ride better, it will make all of your rides better.

However, had he not spent so much time training on the road he probably wouldn't have been in good enough shape to even have a chance to win the race. There are two sides to every story.

I find that I ride better technical now than ever. I don't suffer nearly as much fatigue so I am able to have more energy for the technical and not make nearly as many of those stupid mistakes that only happen once you start getting tired.

That sucks, I hate seeing courses dumbed down. Where I live (WV) the race courses are still pretty darned technical.

C Law

Well, I have been riding a mountain bike for 20 years or so. I have sufficient time in the MTB saddle to be able to ride stunts smoothly, climb loose sketchy singletrack, bunnyhop whatever come my way and swoop through twisty turns at speed. If I was still lacking those skills, I would spend probably spend more time in the dirt. But , you are not going to develop Stamina or long endurance hopping logs and riding stunts (your original question)

As all that replied have said, you need to do more long distance cycling. You will get much faster results on the road. If you choose to ride strictly MTB, getting enough miles in to make a difference in endurance ( with 6 hours of riding a week) will be extremely difficult. There are always compromises with these things.

For me........I ride five days a week (bless my wifes heart). 2 days MTB and 3 days road. I feel this gives me a good balance of maintaining my MTB skill while still reaping the benefits of road training.

sarsparilla

Road riding is not all that bad... especially if you can get out with a group of people. Then it's a whole new animal that can be just as fun.

Also, I am riding better through the technical stuff now that I was a year ago, and I have been doing a lot less mtb riding this year. Here in New England the vast majority of the stuff I ride is still really technical with lots of rock gardens and offcamber roots.

apclassic9

I go to a LOT of MTB races, and there are definately a few groups of riders... there are some really super fast folks who's technique is not great, and they tend to crash. There are wonderfully technical riders who don't move all that fast, there are the newbies who do dumb stuff to get into trouble because they don't know any better, and then there are the balanced riders who have taken the time to learn how to deal with technical stuff and yet retain speed... check the podioum spots for these folks! All of them have, at one point or another, graduated from the other 3 groups!

And, as Lowcel mentioned, in WV riders are almost forced to get a grasp on the technical stuff. Race directors have been known to roll logs onto the trail, route a trail into a rock garden, etc., etc.... all in the pursuit of "gee, this will be fun!"

ed 

I think we're starting to get somewhere, but why is riding on the road the answer? Is it because it's more constant?

I rode with a roadie two days ago that does "pretty well" on the road. He came out to the trails that I usually frequent and they kicked his butt. (mine too) He said that the road was easier, both technically and aerobically.

My local trails are pretty climby. I talked to a 35-45'ish y.o. local racer/roadie/XC'er that is pretty respected in the area for his time in the saddle. He said that this course is a "climber's course". We don't have long descents or much for flat. It's just alot of up'n'down. The longest climb/descent is about 1/8th to 1/4 mile. It's pretty typical around here. Not much for drawn out grades.

I rode the road on my MTB the other day and in the same amount of time it took me to go 15 miles on my local trail and get pooped...on the road I went 30 miles and wasn't anywhere close to being done.

Kinda what I'm getting at is the fact that I only have say 7 hrs a week to ride. Wouldn't 7hrs of climbing my local trails be a better workout than 7 hrs of road riding?

I can't compare miles to miles here. If someone told me that they did a 100 mile road ride around here, I'd be mildly moved. But if the same person told me that they did a 40 mile trail ride, I'd be very impressed.

The roads around here are fairly flat. How can I still get a good workout? Do sprints?

On the trails, I average about 10mph. On a nearby trail that is flowy and not much to climb, I average 14mph. When I ride the road around here (mind you, I don't have a road bike) I average around 20-25mph.

ed 

1. Yup, your wife is the Queen.
2. How do you do your road training? Do you do sprint intervals? Do you just ride as hard as you can take it for 4 hrs?

never

To train and build your endurance, you don't have to ride as hard as you can or flat-out all of the time. That's why road riding is good because you can maintain/monitor your HR and power output and put on those all important, easy base miles.

I use commuting as my training...I ride to work 5 days a week and it's 30km each way so I get to put on about 300km a week. Since I have learned to mix up the intensity and take it easy more often then not, I am even stronger and have even more endurance. With all of the riding to and from work each day, I can still go to the mountains in the evening and do a 50km ride...and can drop the other guys I am with.

But as others said, rest is important...last week I did all of my commuting plus several evening trail rides (in the city and in the mountains) then on the weekend, I did two mountain rides which had some extreme climbing (some cases pushing) and very technical downhills (made more interesting with rain). I've still been commuting but I've only been able to put in one mountain ride this week (and it was a day I didn't go to work and rode with my wife so it was at a pretty relaxed pace).

Also, road riding on a MTB sucks (even with slicks when compared to a road bike). It's much more enjoyable on a proper road bike.

C Law

On a mountain bike? E gads man, you are an animal. Who the hell is this XC guys who drops you? He didn't just recently retire from pro cycling and have one testicle does he?

That is why the road is the king for training. Base mileage. Varying your workouts and the control it permits you. targeting heart rate zones, hill repeats, power intervals, etc.. are just more easily controlled on the road. In the trails, it is tough to 'go easy', especially because of your trails. And if you can't do that, it will be real difficult to get the base you need.

apclassic9

LOL, Curt

If you have only 7 hours to train, I'd suggest 5 on the road, and 2 hitting the hills & technical stuff on your MTB. Pedaling is pedaling, regardless of the terrain, and if you can't do it for a distance, you're screwed. The road will build your endurance.

JagdNeun

Why dont you compromise and if you have any of them in your neck of the woods, hit some gravel type fire trails. You get the feel of the back country and the pedal revolutions of the so-called road. In addition, you are going to expend more energy on a gravel loose surface, than a paved road, and not run the risk of getting smacked by a car. I don't have the experience of the other posters, but I use the compromise solution, in addition to hitting the road at times and I like the no cars, approach. Of course, getting smacked by a car one time, helped me come to that conclusion.

ed 

I've been varying my time lately on bikes. I have been spending more time on my dual suspension ride...trying to keep up a steady pace. It weighs 30.5 lbs compared to my lighter hardtail...it's a good workout. I find that I handle different portions of the trail differently on each bike, so I have been spending time on each so I don't lose the feel of either.

I fear that if I get too technical or methodical with training, I may not enjoy myself. Just need to mix it up a bit.

Now I'm really wishing that I had a road bike to fly around on. I have been talking about this subject with some locals that do both. They pretty much substantiate what you have all said.

Good to know.

ed 

That doesn't include a bunch of climbing...it's pretty much a fairly level path that follows a creek nearby for several miles. Some days I just like to go out on that sucker and spin my little legs off. (I don't do it very often...that's probably my problem, eh?)