daveyw

Just had a new cannondale scalpel delivered with tubeless tires. I've just heard a few bad things about them and I don't know if they're going to be a hassle on XC trails... Any suggestions?

TB214

I have never ridden tubeless tires, so keep that in mind.

I have two training partners that ride them and they have had more flats than I have, almost twice as many. Both of them use the "stans" tubeless tires (sealant) and nearly every time, the sealant fails to stop the leak. They always carry spare tubes (two, one for each tire) and have had to spend a fare amount on new tires due to flats...

In my opinion, the performance gains are NOT worth the extra hassle.
-TB

operator

tubeless tires are idiotic to say the least.

bac

Simply put, your training partners are doing something wrong. Perhaps they didn't use the appropriate amount of Stans? Perhaps they have failed to refresh the Stan's sealant every 6 months or so? I don't know, but my experience with tubeless, and Stan's is the exact oposite.

In 16 months (since I went tubeless) of hard riding, I have NEVER had a flat tire .... NEVER! I've run over countless thorns (I don't even look anymore!), and even pinched the tire once, and Stan's always fixed the puncture on-the-fly. I am able to run a low tire pressure, so the slick, and technical stuff is now a breeze. I will never go back to tubes - never. I hate having to stop my ride for flat tires, and I absolutely LOVE the way the tubeless tires handle.

The only downside is that most tubeless tires are a bit heavier than their tubed counterparts, but once you take into account the weight of the tube, they are comparable. Regardless, for reasons stated above, I've never own a 26" tire that requires a tube again.

TB214

Cool, it sounds like you have your tubeless system completely dialed in. I'm not sure how my friend's systems are setup. I can say for sure that in two instances, the tires/tubes/wheels were less than 1 month old, so the sealant was "fresh"... maybe there wasn't enough of it??

I am curious, if you get a flat with a tubless tire, can you patch it? I am asking purely from a cost perspective. In other words, if you have tubless and you get flat, do you have to buy a new tire to run tubeless again?

Another thing I'm curious about is inflating the tubeless tires and getting the tire bead to lock to the rim. Can this be done with a hand pump or must a compressed air system (compressor or CO2 cartriddge) be used to quickly inflate the tire?

Trey

I just want to weigh in and agree with the positive experiences with Tubeless. I went stans on 717's for about 6 months and had only one flat that ended up being a 1/4 hole in the sidewall from a rock. I suspect even a tube would have been a goner. I have had one other time I hit a rock and popped a hole in the center. Tubeless again would have been a goner and the sealant saved me the hassle of stopping on a 2 mile downhill for maintenance.

I do not ride UST tires and have great luck. I have since gone to a Mavic 819 (UST rim) and still use a homemade sealant with them. I use a LOT of sealant. This is not a place to be conservative. I run Kevlar bead tires and currently have Schwalbe Racing Ralphs that weight 470 grams so no weight penalties for tires. I would definitely advocate a tubeless rim for simplicity over the stans/eclipse strips.

As for inflating it is definitely easiest with a CO2 inflator. Walmart sells 12g CO2 cartriges (Non threaded) for really cheap (Ends up being 50 cents each). It is totally worth buying and inflator and cartidges for tubeless issues. Plus at 50 cents if your tire gets a slow leak it is easier and cheaper to use 4 or 5 cartidges to get you home than a tube. I do still carry a tube with me for emergencies though.

Trey

bac

In terms of patching - here's my experience. If I were to get a flat tire (hasn't happened after hundreds of rides!), I would simply snap a tube in for a quick fix on the trail. Then, later on, I would fix the cut with a tubeless tire patch. However, all my punctures have been permanently sealed with the Stan's sealant. Therefore, I've never had to patch any tire yet - even though I've had many punctures. All cuts/holes have been permanently sealed with the Stan's sealant on-the-fly. The Stan's sealant seals punctures, and cuts up to about 1/4 of an inch. Now, if you got a giant cut on the sidewall, you'd have to toss the tire. However, the same holds true for tubed tires.

In terms of inflating a tubeless tire, you can easily do so with a floor pump. It's really as easy as with a tubed-type tire. The lip of the tubeless tire falls into the center grove of the tubeless rim when mounted, creating a seal. Then, while inflating, the tire just pops out of the inner grove, and onto the lip of the rim. I haven't tried to do it with a mini-pump. However, I carry a CO2 system with me on the trails.

For what it's worth, I run Panaracer Fire XC Pro UST MTB tires.

Jason Brown

Never had any problems with my tubless...had some pretty hard hits, abuse etc. i just keep a spare tube in my camelback with pump tire tool n stuff, just in case just for a temperary fix until i get down the mountain IMO get them they are worth it, thats for DH/FR though

trick

while we're on the subject, i've got a question. A friend has a UST wheel/tire set (mavic crossmax/hutchinson pythons), but he runs tubes in them. I am absolutely baffled as to why. He claims they "last forever", but since I just helped replace a tube in them, I'm doubtful about that claim. Any guesses as to how he might have come to this??

legalize_it

maybe he likes lots of rotational mass?

telenick

One thing to note. If you use CO2 to inflate a tubeless with a product like Stan's, then the CO2 will coagulate and harden the sealant and render it useless.

Only use CO2 if you also run a sealant only when necessary. Try this tip to make a hand pump work on the trail:

You will have more success inflating a tubeless tire with a hand pump if you pinch the tire beads together all the way around the rim so that both beads sit in the center groove of the rim. As the tire inflates, the beads will "pop" out to seat on the outer groove of the rim. You'll save a CO2 cartridge and your sealant won't coagulate.

Riles

Just a quick question on the above quote : I am getting a new wheel set and will run tubeless, however, I am not sure if I shud go with the 717 rims and use Stan's kit or 819's...

717's are cheaper, lighter and there is more range of tires to buy - downside is having to do the Stan's kit stuff. Why is it better to go with the UST rims ? just for hassle free ? or are there other benefits ?

Thanks..

Biker12

It depends where you are cycling

cycleaddict

i use stans also and really like the ability to run low pressures and the lower rolling resistance without tubes. my epic has the tubeless wheels and tires but my litespeed ht has regular wheels and tires but used the conversion kit and they work great and are very light. the only issue i had with the normal tires is when you get some age on the tires you have to watch out for wear on the sidewalls. the normal tires are harder to get them to seal but thats a given i suppose. i would never go back to tubes.

salsa

I race in wv and people with tubless tires are always getting flats. I use tubes and get about 2 flats a race season.

AfterThisNap

Um...no. Unless you're using a fire extinguisher as a CO2 source, you'll be fine. 12g of gas isn't nearly enough to freeze the 3oz or so of sealant inside a tire.

ZeCanon

You're kidding, right?

If you do it right, you will reduce your flats dramatically when running tubeless with sealant. Plus it offers less rolling resistance (tube doesn't have to deform along with tire), lighter weight, and better traction because you can run lower tire pressures. I don't like tubeless specific tires, I like using standard tires with sealant. Far lighter, and IMO tubeless-ready (UST) tires don't ride as well because they are thicker.

If your bike came with tubeless, keep it. But it probably just came with a UST or similar system, so you have no sealant. Pull out the valve core of your presta valve and put some sealant in and you'll be golden. Just remember that the stuff does dry out, so you need to replenish it every so often.

Also, you can make your own sealant, which is much cheaper. Mix a quarter cup of water and one teaspoon of liquid latex and stir till mixed well. If you're riding in sub-freezing temps you can replace the water with windshield washer fluid to serve as anti-freze. (recipe from Nikh)