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-   -   Cannondale VS Specialized (https://www.bikeforums.net/mountain-biking/102166-cannondale-vs-specialized.html)

np2004 04-25-05 04:13 PM

Cannondale VS Specialized
 
Im considering either a Specialized 05 ENDURO EXPERT, 05 ENDURO PRO, or maybe a Cannondale Prophet 1000 or Prophet 2000 which would you suggest and why? Seems most bike dealers are pushing me more toward a Specialized what do some riders with each brand think? Im new to the bike thing so help a fellow bike fanatic out with pros and cons of both brands. Thanks

monkey69 04-25-05 05:27 PM

i don't think cannondale is very popular in this forum .specialized is a well established high quality bike brand ,and i have only heared good things about their customer service. you can't go wrong with specialized but there are plenty of other bike brands that are just as good,or even better .

arboc! 04-25-05 05:40 PM

yeah you hea nothing but c-dale bashing here. i like the specialized though

Hopper 04-25-05 06:26 PM

The Canondale will most likely cost you more. However the Prophet looks like it will be a beautiful lineup. However it is a single pivot bike, whereas the suspension on the Specialized is much more refined. However I do like the feel of a single pivot bike but have only used them on a DH course.

alcahueteria 04-25-05 06:33 PM

I don't know anything about specialized, except that people here like them...Now cannondale, repetively lets me down. Compare the components in the price range, make sure they are equivalent. Cannondale has a habit of selling a nice frame with crap hanging on it.

Krell 04-25-05 07:21 PM

Regarding the build qualities - I own both Cannondale and Specialized. I cracked the frame on my '02 Enduro Pro- Specialized covered the frame under warranty in 03 and updated the frame to the 03 model. It did cost me $200 for the component swap and shipping at my LBS. I still have a 97 Super V that has been pummelled mercilessly. The Head Shock was upgraded to an X-vert early on. The frame has never needed any pivot repairs. I think that that aspect alone is incredible. I had a 2000 Raven (carbon fiber) that Cannondale recalled in 2003. Cannondale replaced the frame with a Jekyl and offered an upgrade from the original Lefty to the Manitou Lefty at a discounted price. The Manitou Lefty suprised me with how good it is.
I have never had problems contacting Cannondale or obtaining technical assistance from the factory in order to obtain off the shelf parts.

TimB 04-26-05 05:05 AM

I have had many cannondales and not one of them has failed me in any way.

The Prophet is a great bike and being a single pivot swing arm is an advantage rather than a liability.
Marketers make a big noise about 4 bar links VPP etc etc.
Fact is that a well designed Single Pivot is lighter, more robust and has less friction and most liklely will better aligned than a 4bar bike.
Scott's, Specialized, marin's all suffer from bearing wear and then the performance drops
4 bar bikes also seem to love chain suck.
Perhaps for a Light weight XC race bike I would consider 4 bar, but a light Single pivot with a Fox RP3 still wins hands down for being lighter and simpler.
Alter all they all go up and down in a controlled manner.

Get the Prophet

klondike300 04-26-05 08:21 AM

Depends on your riding conditions. In the wet, the single pivot (Prophet) seems to last longer. Our local guys get a lot more life out of them than the multi pivot bikes. My Jeckyll has made it four years without any pivot work. I've actually hit a tree head on at about 18mph with the Lefty fork and only had to straighten out the brake rotor. The benefit with the Prophet also is your rear shock options people didn't have with the Jeckyll's.
But like a previous rider said, it's a C-Dale bashing forum around here.

BigGunZ 04-26-05 12:10 PM

I've been bike shopping and decided on a Cannondale for a few reasons. By trade, I'm an aircraft mechanic and a sucker for mechanical structures resembling art and there are very few frames that have the build quality of a Cannondale. The welds, build quality, and finish are a gear-heads dream. I also agree with the single pivot swing arm...they use them on motorcycles for a reason. As far as them using cheap components, I can't comment on that but after reviewing numerous ride reviews from pro riders, many of them feel that the Cannondales are the best out-of-the-crate race bikes money can buy. It's very likely that some of the bashing stems from the CD's being priced above what some can afford. "Sour grapes" syndrome. I'm willing to pay the premium for their frame regardless of what's bolted to it. I also beilieve in "Buying American" whenever I can. :beer: I'm getting ready to order a Gemini 2000 as soon as I figure out which size frame I want.

Raiyn 04-26-05 03:34 PM


Originally Posted by BigGunZ
It's very likely that some of the bashing stems from the CD's being priced above what some can afford. "Sour grapes" syndrome.

:lol: Not hardly I just refuse to pay for a name when any other company offers more component value for the same price.

Originally Posted by BigGunZ
I'm willing to pay the premium for their frame regardless of what's bolted to it.

Which is exactly what you're doing

Originally Posted by BigGunZ
I also beilieve in "Buying American" whenever I can.

Nevermind that everything else on it is imported as are the actual raw tubing pieces if I'm not mistaken.

BigGunZ 04-27-05 04:32 AM


Originally Posted by Raiyn
:lol: Not hardly I just refuse to pay for a name when any other company offers more component value for the same price.

The "sour grapes" comment was merely speculation on my part but it's interesting that you would go out of your way to comment on it. Maybe a shred of truth here after all. I'd bet a months salary that one look around your home, apartment, or even your own bike would prove beyond a doubt that you are VERY willing to pay for a name, so that logic doesn't fly with me.
You're a product of effective marketing every bit as much as everyone else on this forum that has ever spent a dime of their money.


Originally Posted by Raiyn
Which is exactly what you're doing

Possibly so. That's exactly why I said it to begin with. Was it unclear in any way or should I repeat it slower for you?



Originally Posted by Raiyn
Nevermind that everything else on it is imported as are the actual raw tubing pieces if I'm not mistaken.

Please teach me more about global economics...I'm all ears. In reality, you're only stating the obvious. A person has to work very hard buy a product that is 100% American. I own an SUV, a pickup, and a sports car...ALL American made...ALL with some foriegn made parts on them. Having said that, those purchases put more of my dollars in to the US economy than buying a foreign vehicle would have. My money, my choice. Isn't that how it works?

In the end, I fail to see what you've contributed to this thread other than a thinly veiled attempt at bashing a product that you don't happen to like. In reality, you wasted your time. I see nothing negative about Specialized in here and in fact...I own one and would possibly buy another BUT my next bike will be a Cannondale and I won't lose a minutes sleep knowing that some internet Einstien doesn't approve.

Brian 04-27-05 05:34 AM

When you say American made, are you talking about a Honda Accord, or BMW convertible? I hope you don't think a Mexican (or Canadian) made Ford is really American. But it's good to buy American cars, they keep mechanics busy. Not so much with Japanese and German cars. Just a cheap shot and a reminder that arguing cars in a bike forum is ridiculous. Much like buying an American made bike. You are hardly contributing to the US economy by buying a Cannondale. (Disclosure: The CAAD3 in my garage is my 3rd Cannondale I've owned, 5th one I've bought)

Buy the Cannondale if that's what you want. Just be sure to take into consideration the service/repair/replacement issues that come with owning a Headshok-equipped bike. Between the 4 Cannondale MTBs my brother an I have owned, the only problems we've ever had were related to the Headshok or the Lefty. Brilliant design, but not user serviceable, and it quickly becomes an expensive proposition.

C Law 04-27-05 06:04 AM


Originally Posted by BigGunZ
I'd bet a months salary


wow

you are even more sensitive than I am.


I doubt he needs your 2k though.

BigGunZ 04-27-05 06:11 AM


Originally Posted by Expatriate
When you say American made, are you talking about a Honda Accord, or BMW convertible? I hope you don't think a Mexican (or Canadian) made Ford is really American. .

I agree with your point but a Ford is as American as they come. When people say US cars are junk, they sure aren't referring to the Hondas and Toyotas that are built here and considered "American" by many. They're referring to the big 3. There almost isn't a product made any more that hasn't had some aspect of it's manufacture, whether labor or parts, sub'd out to someone else but that doesn't change the country of origin of the product nor does it change the perception of the products origin. Does it really matter in the big scheme of things? Probably not a whole lot since the oil and gas to run them comes from countries that don't even build cars.


Originally Posted by Expatriate
But it's good to buy American cars, they keep mechanics busy. Not so much with Japanese and German cars. Just a cheap shot and a reminder that arguing cars in a bike forum is ridiculous..

About as ridiculous as arguing which bike is better?
Either my vehicles are freaks of nature or I'm just lucky, either way, foreign car dealerships have service departments for a reason as well.


Originally Posted by Expatriate
Buy the Cannondale if that's what you want. Just be sure to take into consideration the service/repair/replacement issues that come with owning a Headshok-equipped bike. Between the 4 Cannondale MTBs my brother an I have owned, the only problems we've ever had were related to the Headshok or the Lefty. Brilliant design, but not user serviceable, and it quickly becomes an expensive proposition.

Everything mechanical has it's drawbacks...it's the price we pay to have expensive toys.

BigGunZ 04-27-05 06:14 AM


Originally Posted by unsuspended
wow
you are even more sensitive than I am.
I doubt he needs your 2k though.

I'm only sensitive in one spot.
2K? If you only knew ;)

C Law 04-27-05 06:50 AM


Originally Posted by BigGunZ

About as ridiculous as arguing which bike is better?

No, that would be fairly appropriate for a bike forum.

BigGunZ 04-27-05 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by unsuspended
No, that would be fairly appropriate for a bike forum.

Seemingly, but it's just as subjective and speculative a topic as everything else. Everybody has their preferences whether it be bikes, clothes, or cars. Trying to say one is better than another as a blanket statement is plain dumb. I simply answered a valid question posed by another member, and did so without putting down another product or member. Yet some people seem to get their thong tied in a knot whenever someone mentions that they like Cannondales. Seems a bit childish to me.

Original 6 04-27-05 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by np2004
Im considering either a Specialized 05 ENDURO EXPERT, 05 ENDURO PRO, or maybe a Cannondale Prophet 1000 or Prophet 2000 which would you suggest and why? Seems most bike dealers are pushing me more toward a Specialized what do some riders with each brand think? Im new to the bike thing so help a fellow bike fanatic out with pros and cons of both brands. Thanks

I don't think you could go wrong with any of them. I'd pick the one that is most comfortable and fits your budget best. Good luck and enjoy!!

monkey69 04-27-05 07:15 AM


Originally Posted by BigGunZ
Seemingly, but it's just as subjective and speculative a topic as everything else. Everybody has their preferences whether it be bikes, clothes, or cars. Trying to say one is better than another as a blanket statement is plain dumb.

buzzzzer ,wrong .
simply believing a simple opinion of something beeing better is plain dumb!!!!

BigGunZ 04-27-05 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by monkey69
buzzzzer ,wrong .
simply believing a simple opinion of something beeing better is plain dumb!!!!

Uh......er........well.........OK sure.

Brian 04-27-05 03:34 PM


Originally Posted by BigGunZ
Everything mechanical has it's drawbacks...it's the price we pay to have expensive toys.

No problems whatsover with our tandem, and I guarantee most people would choke on that price.

By the way, with so many being built in Mexico, I hardly consider Ford to be very "American" anymore. You could support Ford by buying a Jaguar as well you know.

Raiyn 04-27-05 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by BigGunZ
I agree with your point but a Ford is as American as they come.

Give me the year and model and chances are your American car was made elsewhere.
Ford Motor Company of Canada Ltd.
http://www.ford.ca Oakville, Ontario FreeStar, Mercury Monterey
Ford Motor Company of Canada Ltd.
http://www.ford.ca Oakville, Ontario F-Series
Ford Motor Company of Canada Ltd.
http://www.ford.ca St. Thomas, Ontario Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Mercury Marauder
Not to mention plants in Mexico.


"What are all of the makes of cars (trucks, etc.) that are American made?"
(Thanks to the U.S. Stuff visitor who emailed the question ~1999)


Don't know.

As far as U.S. Stuff can tell, there are no makes of cars that are 100% American made. The closest U.S. Stuff has seen is 2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue GLS Sedan and the 2001 Pontiac Widetrack Grand Prix GT Sedan, made by USA owned Oldsmobile/General Motors and USA owned Pontiac/General Motors, both assembled in Kansas City, Kansas, USA, with a USA engine, USA transmission, with 96% US/Canadian parts content. Check the parts content sticker, though. The Grand Prix SE Sedan has a Mexican engine.

A close second, (and usually first) are the 2001 Saturn S models. They are made by the USA owned Saturn/General Motors, assembled in Spring Hill, Tennessee, USA, with a USA engine, USA transmission and 95% US/Canadian parts content. The 1998s (pretty sure) were the same, but in the 1999s they went "downhill in Spring Hill" with 90% U.S./Canadian parts. Saturn got their act together and have the 2001s back up to 95%. Saturn recently came out with their larger L models, which have lower US/Canadian parts percentages (80% for 2001), the V6 engine is from the UK, and their commercials used to brag about the L model's German engineering. You can't have it all.

Also in second for model year 2001 are the Ford Tauruses, the Ford F150 Lariat Harley-Davidson model, and the GMC Safari. Like the Saturn S's, the Fords and the GMC are USA owned, USA assembled, with USA engines, USA transmissions and 95% US/Canadian parts. The Taurus's cousin, the Mercury Sable is the same, but with 90% US/Canadian parts.

Honorable mention for a car made by a foreign owned car company would have to go to the 2001 Chrysler Prowler. German owned Daimler-Chrysler's Prowler is USA assembled in Detroit, Michigan, with a USA Engine, USA Transmission, and a very high 94% US/Canadian parts content (Could be mostly Canadian, though. Can't tell for sure. Just hope it's mostly USA.)

1998 Ford F150s and F250s use to be 95% on some models but the 1999s went down to around 90%, with many including Japanese transmissions. The (1999?) Plymouth Prowler was 90%. Many 1998 Mustangs were 90% but the 1999s were are around 85%. The Chevy Blazers were around 90%. Many 1998 Tauruses were around 85%. 1998 Corvettes, Grand Prix, Intrigues, Cavaliers were around 82%. Chrysler had some vans around 90% with US assembly and the Durango was around 80%.

Some Camrys, Accords, Nissans, Mazdas, Mitsubishis, (all?) Mercedes M sport utilities, (all?) BMW Z sports cars are assembled in the US.

The term US/Canadian doesn't tell you how much is US. U.S. Stuff would, though, recommend looking for USA ownership, USA final assembly, USA transmission and USA engine, with the highest US/Canadian parts content you can find. This info (except for ownership) is listed on the parts content sticker. On new vehicles it should be attached to the vehicle window, like the price sticker. On 2001 Hyundais, the parts content sticker is a nearly invisible clear decal on window (Miniscule to zero US content). Nissan vehicles and 2001 Lincoln Navigators have been seen by U.S. Stuff with the content sticker on the opposite side of the vehicle from the price sticker (don't want you to see it?), Chrysler products had them incorporated into the price sticker (good choice, can't fall off without the sticker price falling off, too). Some Pontiacs and the Corvettes had them (and still did for model year 2001) folded up so you couldn't see them unless you unstuck one of the ends of the sticker from the window and unfolded it (good info, but are they too ashamed?).

It's been said (by a dealers association) that the formulas for content are inaccurate because they combine US and Canadian content, and they treat parts diffently when the parts provider is owned by the auto company and when it isn't. This, they say, makes parts/vehicles with the same US content have radically different percentages on the parts content sticker.

If you go new car shopping, always check the stickers (it's about the best you've got, as far as U.S. Stuff knows). U.S. Stuff has seen seemingly identical Pontiacs, one assembled in the USA and the other assembled in Mexico. Seen similar vehicles with different countries of assembly at Ford (Mexico, US), Chrysler (Canada, US), GM (Mexico, US and Canada, US), Toyota (Japan, US), etc.

If you're looking for a used vehicle, U.S. Stuff has seen some vehicles with the place of assembly printed on the manufacturers label on the door jamb. U.S. Stuff has also seen some GM vehicles with the label not saying. According to the book "Made in the USA' by the Made in USA Foundation (available for purchase by calling 1-800-USA-PRIDE http://www.madeusa.org/book.htm), the serial number of the vehicle will have the country of final assembly coded into it. If the serial number starts with a '1' or '4', its final assembly was in the USA. If it starts with a '2', Canada; a '3', Mexico; a 'J', Japan; 'K' for Korea and other letters or numbers for other countries.

So, if you're in the market for a used vehicle, US Stuff recommends checking the parts content sticker. Probably not still on the window, and probably not still in the possesion of the vehicle owner. Impossible, so you may want to check the US government's listing of parts content for the vehicle (US Stuff hasn't found such a list, probably doesn't exist). You're next best (maybe only) option is to check the serial number, and look for a starting number of "1" or "4", USA final assembly. Next, try to look for a vehicle that's similar to a new car with the most US Stuff. Like shopping in the year 2001 for a used vehicle, you may want to get a 2000 or older Pontiac Widetrack Grand Prix GT Sedan, since the 2001 model is USA owned, USA engine, USA tran, with 96% US/Canadian parts, but beware of the SE Sedan, which may have had a Mexican engine. Or you may want a smaller vehicle, like a 2000 or older Saturn S model. You'd be pretty safe with that choice, since all 2001 S models are USA owned, USA engine, USA tran, 95% US/Canadian (and other years seen to be the same, with 90% or more US/Can parts).

According to the book 'How Americans Can Buy American' by Roger Simmermaker, (available for purchase by calling 1-888-US-OWNED howtobuyamerican.com) Chrysler produces 30% of its vehicles content in the USA, 50% for Ford, 70% for GM. The Dodge Dakota (1995?) is 80% American content. The book emphasizes the importance of US ownership of the companies that make the vehicles. A few of the US owned makes listed are Saturn, Ford, Vector, Lamborghini. Some foreign owned are Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen. U.S. Stuff beleives Chrysler (Daimler-Chrysler) is now German owned.

A lot of the above numbers and info are to the best of U.S. Stuff's knowledge, so you better check it out yourself before you buy. Corrections would be appreciated.

The two books above are good guides. Buy them ASAP. U.S. Stuff hopes you find a vehicle you like, Made in the USA. If you do (or some other Made in USA product), please let U.S. Stuff know so it can be listed on the U.S. Stuff web site.

PaulBravey 04-27-05 04:34 PM

Now if you want to buy a japanese car and still buy american then buy a mazda. If you want a classic british car and want to still buy american then buy a jaguar or a land rover. If you want swedish safety and want to still buy american then buy a volvo. They're all owned (wholely or partially) by Ford. The Volvo S40, Mk2 Ford Focus and the Mazda 3 are all just variations on a common chassis.

BigGunZ 04-28-05 03:35 AM


Originally Posted by Raiyn
Give me the year and model and chances are your American car was made elsewhere.

OK, I'l humor you on this one....

1992 Ford F250HD Turbodiesel
1993 Jeep Wrangler 4.0
2003 Z06 Corvette

Knock yourself out.

Brian 04-28-05 04:01 AM

He's lucky his Jeep wasn't made in Austria like we get here. Austria!


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