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Thinking a hardtail would be best?

Old 04-02-16, 11:14 AM
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Thinking a hardtail would be best?

50 plus year old, currently out of shape and overweight because of a crappy soul destroying job, but I quit my job and moving to Scottsdale, Az. I Used to road cycle 25 to 50 miles at a time at moderate speeds, 16 to 24 mph, with a few longer charity rides here and there up to 4 years ago. I plan on using my road and cyclocross bikes in the Scottsdale area to regain some fitness that I have lost in the last 4 years. I also like to hike. Everytime I hike the desert I see mountain bike riders on the same trails. Hmmm. A mountain bike seems to be in my future for those Phoenix area trails.

So, overall I am not a powerful rider, even when I get some miles of fitness behind me. I don't like to go fast, even on the road. If I am on a road descent, I prefer to stay under 30 mph. I don't see myself bombing down the rocky desert trails. I see myself using the ascents as challenges and exercise, then more or less picking my way back down. Its for exercise and fun, and will not be about speed. I am a lousy climber even on the road, but used to use rolling hill road terrain to increase fitness. I could go up short steep hills that charity riders younger than me had to walk, but compared to regular club road riders (enthusiasts) I am weak. I expect to remain on easy and moderate single track trails with some hills (flat stuff and mixed gravel/ dirt/ pavement trails will get the cyclocross bike).

That crappy soul destroying job did pay well, so my budget is large, but I would prefer under $3000. 2K or less would be even better. I would upgrade to high end later if for some reason mountain biking became the best thing I ever tried. Based on my perceived abilities and likely use, I figure a hardtail would be best? I also figure that in that price range, a hardtail would come rather nicely equiped? If full suspension would make someone who doesn't care about speed uphill or down better able to ride rocky desert trails with confidence, then I am good with that too. What do you think?
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Old 04-02-16, 12:05 PM
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Son,,U got Options !

I started on a HT 29er to get healthy and became addicted to the sport. I moved to a Full suspension for many reasons but the only regret I have about my Hard Tail is trading it in to lower the price of the full suspension..

The Hard Tail was a great teacher, often forcing me to use proper form and technique.
The full suspension let me ride farther and faster all the while beating me less when I made a mistake.

Hard Tails require, no DEMAND you to get out of the saddle where you should be when things get dicy.
they are lighter overall and require less maintenance..

My advice is so so complex: SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BIKE SHOP !

They should know the trails you will ride and what works there, and you will need their support along the way.
Your first bike wont be your last but remember,,

IF your LBS advises you to step up in price a little remember the oldest of lessons, You Get What you pay for..

A good bike makes a huge difference and good bikes cost money.

Relax on your first bike, pick a perfect fit above all else,,and a cool color
Everybody knows red and black bikes are faster

My old Hard Tail:
I rode the snot outta this bike !

My current speed steed and my passion:



Good Hard Tails can be had for $1,000.00 At this level you get a keeper.

Decent full suspension may start at $2,000 but when you play at this level you will want to upgrade the thing pretty soon
Good full suspension starts at about $3,500....

Don't do carbon for your first bike..
Good carbon is,,,good, very good and very expensive,, less expensive carbon will beat you to death..
I lasted 2 miles on a cheap carbon bike I rented...

I must stress this:
Don't get all hung up on wheel sizes, 27.5,, 29er,, 27.5+ 29+
Get your bike,
Get a good hydration pack with all the proper things Inside for the ride and your body
and wear out your tires

Last edited by osco53; 11-29-16 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 04-02-16, 12:17 PM
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At the $1000 level you can buy a complete hard tail mountain bike with no compromises of function or durability. Above that it just gets lighter and more clever, and $3000 will buy something really nice.

The present fad in trail bikes is 27.5x3" tires, slack angles, dropper seat post so you don't need to get off and undo the seat binder like the old days, 1x11 drive train. Marin Pine Mountain 2 is a good example, so is Specialized Fuse.
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Old 04-02-16, 12:20 PM
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You said, "50 plus year old, currently out of shape and overweight because of a crappy soul destroying job,"
On that alone don't start on a 1x11,,

You will want two chain rings up front.. I see a 2x10 or 2x11 In your future grasshopper :XD

You can always rip off the front stuff later,,,,
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Old 04-02-16, 11:14 PM
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Yeah, I like gears. My favorite road bike is a triple cuz that middle chain ring covers everything around where I live, just about. Not the type to worry about others thinking I dont have the proper number of front chainrings. Top end may be what others worry about, but its the low end that makes you get off and push.

But what about suspension? What's best for a fat old guy who doesn't have the sense to stay on the pavement anymore? Full or just up front?
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Old 04-03-16, 04:59 AM
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The Phoenix area trails are probably rocky enough that you'd appreciate full suspension at 50+ years. Probably rocky enough that you'd appreciate the rollover quality of a 29er, as well. You could probably rent or demo some bikes in the area to see what might suit you. Some shops will let you apply what you spend on demoing toward the purchase of a bike.
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Old 04-03-16, 05:52 AM
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Santa Cruz Superlight is available in your size range and well within your budget

A very versatile full suspension design that doesnt rob your pedalling --- i had an older generation Superlight , but was looking at one being built up at my LBS recently - seriously nice bikes for the money. Wheel sizes depend on size of the bike, S and M are 27.5 while the L and XL are 29'ers

the Santa Cruz was my first dual suspension bike, and when i had the air pressure properly set, the nice thing was all i had to do was provide the motor-- then let the suspension do the rest on moderate trails. The comfort level let me ride for hours longer than i ever did my old hardtails, - and i raced sanctioned NORBA events BITD
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Old 04-03-16, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Pendergast
The Phoenix area trails are probably rocky enough that you'd appreciate full suspension at 50+ years.
I sort of agree with this. Don't rule suspension out too quickly. Do you see most other riders on full-suspension bikes? What other riders are on sometimes gives an indication as to what sort of bike is suitable for local conditions. Also, suspension helps with climbing by keeping your rear tire planted. And suspension helps with going down even if you are not ripping it. OTOH, it is more costly and time-consuming to maintain.

Are there any rental places near you? Would be worth renting a hardtail for a day, and then a suspension bike for the day. See how you felt about them. Might help you to decide.
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Old 04-03-16, 11:21 AM
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Yes, there are rentals. About $60 for four hours. I haven't shopped the bike stores yet to see if demo bikes are available. I also figure I need to know enough before I shop, I don't want to be completely at the mercy of whichever sales person happens to be there. Plus the "research" aspect of bike shopping is part of the fun.

I didn't notice what the riders were using. I was watching how the handled the terrain. Next time
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Old 04-04-16, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JonathanGennick
I sort of agree with this. Don't rule suspension out too quickly. Do you see most other riders on full-suspension bikes? What other riders are on sometimes gives an indication as to what sort of bike is suitable for local conditions. Also, suspension helps with climbing by keeping your rear tire planted. And suspension helps with going down even if you are not ripping it. OTOH, it is more costly and time-consuming to maintain.

Are there any rental places near you? Would be worth renting a hardtail for a day, and then a suspension bike for the day. See how you felt about them. Might help you to decide.
I'm in this boat. While I'm a couple decades younger than you, I am 12 years into a rugby career. And although I won't say we have as many rocks as Arizona, my local trail is a bumpy beast (and we have this nonsense obstacle called a 'root'). Combine that with the fact that the best riding season is rugby season, and my back, knees, and feet reeeeally wish I had the cash available to go full suspension with my last purchase. Even if my lungs are for some reason not about to explode, sometimes it just wears me out on that hardtail.

I will be looking seriously into a Transition Scout or Smuggler when the time comes. It's got enough rear suspension to seemingly reduce the abuse on my back, but not so much that I'll be losing a bunch of energy to the bounce. And plenty up front. This is, of course, all theory...

Also, definitely check out what other local people are riding. For me, it's about 85%-15% on full suspension to hardtails around here.

I'm with you. I just don't fully trust salespeople at shops. Purely because they're salespeople and their opinions and interests may not align properly with mine. Not that they aren't invaluable, but you should be educated going in. But that's my approach when purchasing pretty much everything. No offense to you folks working in sales
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Old 04-04-16, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Hot Potato
Yes, there are rentals. About $60 for four hours. I haven't shopped the bike stores yet to see if demo bikes are available. I also figure I need to know enough before I shop, I don't want to be completely at the mercy of whichever sales person happens to be there. Plus the "research" aspect of bike shopping is part of the fun.

I didn't notice what the riders were using. I was watching how the handled the terrain. Next time
AOA in Scottsdale has nice hard tail and full suspension bikes for rent. This might be money well spent in determining what you want. Keep in mind, the trails and terrain in the Valley are WAY different than what you had in Chicago.

When you are ready to buy- Check out Slippery Pig and Sunday Cycles in Phoenix. Good and honest MTB focused shops.

Last edited by Wingsprint; 04-04-16 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 04-04-16, 12:14 PM
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I think a hardtail offers a ton of value. But the "Lockouts" on a good F/S bike are helpful in getting good power to the pedal when climbing. You can buy a variety of tires from commuters to give you lower rolling resistance for street riding to big knobbies for when you decide its time to chase rattlesnakes at South MT. I am 62 and still enjoy the dusty trails over pavement, but I ride em all.

I like shopping at REI. Nice selection of bikes and you have a bike shop in all major cities if you travel.
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Old 04-04-16, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Hot Potato
But what about suspension? What's best for a fat old guy who doesn't have the sense to stay on the pavement anymore? Full or just up front?
A Hard Tail will beat you more,
A Hard Tail Is Light and faster on the smoother stuff, All things being equal, Its more efficient overall.

A Full squish offers more,,,S-Q-U-S-H Its softer, It's more comfortable yes BUT......
It offers more traction and control when things get rough,,,IF and this Is a BIG BIG IF,,,,

IF you set it up right and learn to ride light,,,

A Full squish can eject you over the bars in a VERY bad way going down a hill If you do not ride It correctly....

Your legs must still be the main suspension~~~~~
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Old 04-04-16, 03:14 PM
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Western Chicago is not known for its mountains .. where are you planning to travel for that out in Nature experience?
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Old 04-04-16, 04:37 PM
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Arizona.

But I am starting to think full suspension might be better? I move in June, will probably wait till October before trying some demos.

No need to cross purpose the MTN bike, Ive got road and flat trail well covered.

Last edited by Hot Potato; 04-04-16 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 04-09-16, 02:49 PM
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Stopped by my Illinois LBS, a stumpjumper 6 fattie was recommended. It looked nice! I definitely want to rent one of these after the move. So I guess I have changed my thinking. A hard tail may not be best for what I will be doing.
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Old 04-16-16, 08:33 PM
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I'm 42 and ride a hard tail; the one caveat is my hard tail isn't a stock bike. I own a 2013 Yeti Big Top with X0 components and a X-Fusion fork (34 stanchions). The things I've learned from riding a HS frame is that I want a full squishy because I have become confident in my riding and am reaching out into some bigger things for my riding.

My advise is to avoid a FS and let the bulk of your funds go toward a quality hard tail. You can get a lot of bang for your buck out of a Trek Stache or Surly Krampus. The catch is that you're going to want a suspension fork and that's where you'll want to make sure you get quality over a lot of other things. A lot of people are going to tell you a 2x10 is a good thing, and I'm not saying they're wrong. The catch with a 1-xx setup is that you're going to be limited - sorta. The gear range is very wide on the new 1x setups. You'll probably find that you get more lower end range out of it and that's where you'll find yourself offroad anyhow. When you get strong like ox and can ride with speed, maybe you'll find the 1-xx limiting, but early on, it'll be perfectly fine. Hell, I'd wager you'll never out-ride any decent gear range on a 1x. Go to your LBS and look for 1-2 year old stock that's been reduced to save a few pesos and avoid a lot of the hyped up crap. Carbon isn't going to be your friend until you're very comfortable with riding on rocks in our neck of the woods. Stick with aluminum or steel and instead focus on a solid wheelset, good midlevel components (x7-x9) and solid breaking. Dropper posts and all the other stuff is nice, but not something I would worry about until you've found your comfort zone and riding style that makes you feel confident.

tl;dr: by a 1-2 year old stock hard tail with midlevel components and good wheels with enough growth in the bike to learn, but not make you feel like the bike is mocking you.
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Old 04-17-16, 01:54 PM
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Most bikes can mock me, all they want to, but in the end it is they that are stuck with me riding them. I got to visit a few LBS last week. They did agree with a full suspension bike, but what LBS wouldn't? They certainly cost more. Two stores were very friendly and informative. One has a demo program, the other sells bikes that are used by a local rental company. So it looks like I will be able to try before I buy. Funny, the trails that are by my house weren't on the bike trail maps - either because they are primarily hiking trails, or because they are too short. But, there is PLENTY of trails to choose from. It is sad that I will have to wait a few months after moving for the heat to calm down.
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Old 04-19-16, 07:43 AM
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without question for your terrain and style full suspension is the right choice

I rode HT for years could not believe i did not switch to FS before. Much more comfortable better control in dicey areas

I would look for a demo day they normally have several bikes and top mechanics to set you up

I would make sure the tires are proper for your terrain out of the gate. Mine were speced with a racing type of tire that performed poorly I wish I would have asked and gotten right out of the gate

I am a fan of the 2x as well do not get the whole its so much cleaner looking I drop and push up in the front all the time both on my road bike and MTB

get it with a dropper post and get set up with tubeless you will appreciate both in your terrain.

If it were me I would look at 5 inch travel 27.5

If you can spend more do so as long as you ride it you will not regret it

My budget was 3500 I blew past it by about 40 percent and do not regret it

look at the freedom to ride program 12 months interest free

dont worry about the heat buy a bike ride the wee hours and get in before it climbs too much
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Old 04-20-16, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Hot Potato
Stopped by my Illinois LBS, a stumpjumper 6 fattie was recommended.
I demo'd a SJ 6 fattie at a race earlier this year. Was really fun on the downhill and flowy trails, bit sucked all the energy out of me on the climbs. Had to really work hard to get that rig up the mountain. With out a doubt it was the best workout that I ever got on a bike. Not the type of bike I was looking for but the fun factor was there when you point that big wheel down the mountain.

I ended up with a getting a great deal on a lightly used Spesh Epic. Apparently some folks buy nice bikes and are afraid to get them dirty. Picked it up cheap and riding and racing the heck out of it.

Last edited by 1242Vintage; 04-20-16 at 08:14 AM.
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