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Old 08-04-16, 04:00 PM   #1
RubeRad
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Best source of liquid latex for tubeless homebrew?

I'm almost done with my second liter of TruckerCo Cream Latex Sealant, and looking to try my hand at homebrew. I've settled on BAMFS3.0 from the epic tubeless homebrew thread at mtbr.

But looking at the price of liquid latex mold builder ($20/16oz at michael's), this is not gonna be as cheap as I hoped.

For any other tubeless homebrewers out there, what's the best cheap source of liquid latex mold builder?
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Old 08-04-16, 04:30 PM   #2
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Latex 74 $53.75 per gallon was the cheapest that I've found.

Douglas and Sturgess: Latex 74, 1 Gallon
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Old 08-04-16, 04:55 PM   #3
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I'm almost done with my second liter of TruckerCo Cream Latex Sealant, and looking to try my hand at homebrew. I've settled on BAMFS3.0 from the epic tubeless homebrew thread at mtbr.

But looking at the price of liquid latex mold builder ($20/16oz at michael's), this is not gonna be as cheap as I hoped.

For any other tubeless homebrewers out there, what's the best cheap source of liquid latex mold builder?
Stan's works just fine at $1.28 an ounce or $2.56 per tire. $5.12 per bike.

Going homebrew and buying a gallon of latex changes the economics to $.80 per tire or $1.60 per bike. Plus the cost of Slime, glitter, ammonia, etc.

I laugh at the folks who go that route to save a few pennies on a "solution" that has many problems cmpared to Stans.
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Old 08-04-16, 05:11 PM   #4
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Michael's has frequent sales and coupons.

I've heard of people using caulk.

I think a lot of the people making homebrew are doing it either because they need enough that it does make sense (running a team or a fleet of bikes or a shop), or just for the sake of the hobby. You don't need to know how to do a lot of things that don't save you money, but it's fun to see how stuff works and satisfying to use something you made yourself.
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Old 08-04-16, 05:35 PM   #5
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In this case, I have to agree with YourMomApproves. Is not worth the hassle.

If you are dealing with a fleet of bikes a 32oz bottle of Stans retails for $25 it will do about 16 wheels and is ready to use. And if you don't like Stans, there are several other alternatives that work as well. No way I'm wasting time mixing stuff to save a buck a year.
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Old 08-04-16, 10:37 PM   #6
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You underestimate how cheap I am, and how willing to do something myself to save a little money and 'stick it to the man'!

Michael's at $20/pt I realize I can use a freely-available 40% off one item coupon, so that saves a bunch.

But then I started researching the polyethylene glycol, that stuff's not cheap either, although maybe I can substitute that with the cheapest antifreeze I can find at Kragen's.

Ammonia and distilled water are virtually free.

So that would be like under $20 I think for about 80oz of sealant. (16oz latex = 1 part, + 2parts PG + 2 parts water + little bit of ammonia&xanthan gum). That's $0.25/oz or under vs above-quoted $1.28/oz, 1/5 the price.

Besides, in the epic mtbr thread people pretty universally report better performance than stans, no boogers
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Old 08-04-16, 11:04 PM   #7
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But then I started researching the polyethylene glycol, that stuff's not cheap either...
??? It's five bucks a gallon at Walmart
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Old 08-05-16, 06:02 AM   #8
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I use the Bontrager stuff, and have used the Stans, Both are ready to pour Into my tire, no fuss no mess and never a performace problem.
Is It penny wise and pound foolish ? Is cost the only motivation for doing all that work, mixing up something ?

There has got to be another reason right ?
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Old 08-05-16, 02:13 PM   #9
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I use the Bontrager stuff, and have used the Stans, Both are ready to pour Into my tire, no fuss no mess and never a performace problem.
Is It penny wise and pound foolish ? Is cost the only motivation for doing all that work, mixing up something ?

There has got to be another reason right ?
Avoiding saddle time? LOL! And just wait until their home-brew clogs their valves...
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Old 08-05-16, 09:57 PM   #10
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Made my own home brew sealant for a while. Was a fun experiment that ended one night when I put a little too much air in a tire and blew it off the rim. My brew had green glitter in it, which sprayed all over the wife's white car when the tire blew. Spent hours cleaning it off her car. Lesson Learned, turn the pressure down on the compressor before inflating tires.

I just use Stans now.
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Old 08-06-16, 03:37 PM   #11
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Well your homebrew was not to blame for blowing your tire off, that's your (mis)use of the compressor. I did that once too, and then that tire's bead was stretched enough that when I got it to seal with a hand pump it blew off again at 48psi
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Old 08-06-16, 03:41 PM   #12
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I use the Bontrager stuff, and have used the Stans, Both are ready to pour Into my tire, no fuss no mess and never a performace problem.
Is It penny wise and pound foolish ? Is cost the only motivation for doing all that work, mixing up something ?

There has got to be another reason right ?
Cost is the reason. Since last fall I've burned through 2L of sealant for close to $40, I've never paid that much for tubes in such a short time. I'm super pissed actually, I refilled my front tire just 1 mo ago and already it went dry, I had to refill it today
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Old 08-06-16, 05:18 PM   #13
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Cost is the reason. Since last fall I've burned through 2L of sealant for close to $40, I've never paid that much for tubes in such a short time. I'm super pissed actually, I refilled my front tire just 1 mo ago and already it went dry, I had to refill it today
There is something fundamentally wrong with your setup if this is true.

When you have so many issues with a no name copycat when the tried and true commercial category leading solution (Stan's) is the same price?
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Old 08-06-16, 05:47 PM   #14
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Frankly, I think the problem is more that my tires are not tubeless specific. Kenda smallblock 8 tomac edition, folding bead, they are great tires, but tons of weeping of moisture at the bead.

Also I recently redid my setup, I was getting sealant blowing out the nipples, which meant I taped too narrow. So I used full-width 1" gorilla tape on my 19mm rims and now there's tape up in the bead-seating area of the rim, I suspect the surface of the tape is too slick and allows moisture to seep out even though the bead is well-sealed (in terms of air)
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Old 08-07-16, 05:00 PM   #15
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Cost is the reason. Since last fall I've burned through 2L of sealant for close to $40, I've never paid that much for tubes in such a short time. I'm super pissed actually, I refilled my front tire just 1 mo ago and already it went dry, I had to refill it today
Wow,, I ride weekly, was told to refresh about every three months, four months max.
I forgot about it,, and at 6 months I remembered. Did not have a problem and tires were not loosing air any faster.
Was always the same as tubed, about 2 to 3 psi per week even at 6 months.

I refilled/refreshed for $2.50 per wheel. So simple to shake up and dump the little bottle In the valve stem,,
Next time I'll un-mount the tire and get the two hair balls of dry stuff out..
Prolly need new shoes anyways.
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Old 08-09-16, 03:27 PM   #16
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Frankly, I think the problem is more that my tires are not tubeless specific. Kenda smallblock 8 tomac edition, folding bead, they are great tires, but tons of weeping of moisture at the bead.

Also I recently redid my setup, I was getting sealant blowing out the nipples, which meant I taped too narrow. So I used full-width 1" gorilla tape on my 19mm rims and now there's tape up in the bead-seating area of the rim, I suspect the surface of the tape is too slick and allows moisture to seep out even though the bead is well-sealed (in terms of air)
I've found that non-TR (non-Tubeless Ready) tires' beads can't handle the job. Like you, I got weeping, messing sidewalls and drying out. I now only run tires that are TR-rated. Another problem with non-TR is that the weeping sealant, once dried, makes it a bear, if not impossible to reseat a bead. And I thought I was saving a couple bucks buying the non-TR versions.
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Old 08-11-16, 07:04 AM   #17
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well, bikesdirect advertised the wheelset as tubeless-ready (wtb tcs), I guess that didn't include the tires.
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Old 08-13-16, 04:15 PM   #18
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I use the bontrager for road but mix my own for mtn and cx. How is 70% cheaper not a deal? There is no hassle.
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Old 08-13-16, 10:46 PM   #19
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Can you post the BAMFS3.0 recipe here?

I use equal parts:

1. latex - (40 percent off coupon for Michael's in every Sunday newspaper, sometimes online)
2. propylene glycol - IMPORTANT - never mix latex directly with PG or GL because it causes the rubber to harden instantly. Add the PG/GL after mixing the latex with other liquids first. Chemically, this stuff is a "wetting agent" and it feels somehow wetter than water. I think it's used in sex lube and is perhaps the chemical name of plant-derived glycerin. Buy it at a livestock feed dealer. Farmers use it to prevent Ketosis in animals.
3. Slime - inexpensive sealant has small rubber chunks in it and antifreeze for winter. Perhaps this is the ingredient that prevents the mix from drying out too soon.

Your sealant can be a LOT thinner than you'd guess it should be, and in fact thinner (to a point) actually seems to work better than thicker. This mixture seems to stay liquid in my tires 2 or 3 times longer than Stan's. IMPORTANT - too much ammonia will prevent the latex from setting up even when exposed to air.

Mix and store it in a half-gallon glass canning jar with a metal screw-on lid. The entire container of Michael's latex is about 1/4 the volume of this jar, so it works out perfectly.

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Old 08-14-16, 06:05 AM   #20
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Can you post the BAMFS3.0 recipe here?
Here's a link to comment #3818 of the epic homebrew thread on mtbr, and here's the BAMFS3.0
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BAMFS v3.0 (Stan's clone + ammonia + XG.)

PG/GL : 2 parts - 200ml
DI water : 2 parts - 200ml
Latex : 1 part - 100ml
Ammonia : 0.3 parts - 30ml
Cornmeal : 1 tbs
XG : 1 pinch
Thx for posting your recipe as well, but I'm not interested in using Slime, seems to me like a homebrew sealant shouldn't have storebought sealant as one of its ingredients.
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Old 08-14-16, 06:06 AM   #21
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So after this discussion, my plan is to
a) wait for my current (last) sealant to dry up
b) put in tubes
c) wear out these tires
d) buy real tubeless tires
e) work on a homebrew
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Old 08-14-16, 06:44 AM   #22
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I will tell you of an old trick that farmers use. They use whole milk. There are many stories of farmers getting soaked though with "sour cream" on epic tire explosions.

At $4.59 a gallon here, that's an awesome $.0358 per ounce.
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Old 08-15-16, 11:19 AM   #23
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wait, just whole milk, nothing else? and the idea is that it curdles inside the tire so it's thick? I have a hard time believing that's really effective. Maybe mixed with cornmeal...?
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Old 08-17-16, 10:07 AM   #24
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In my experience the Gorilla Tape method of tubeless is an exercise in continuous frustration because of leaks. The split-tube method is far better than any other including dedicated tubeless rim strips because you can use smaller diameter tubes, for example 26" tubes on a 29er or 24" tubes on a 26", so the fit is very tight and becomes customized to the shape and width of your particular rim after trimming. You can use racing lightweight butyl tubes with removable valve cores after installing plastic rim tape over the spoke holes. I like to carefully trim the tubes so they come all the way up to the tire hooks on each side. I reuse these split tubes many times so while trimming them is time intensive you seldom have to do it. You might expect the rim strips to come off when removing a used tire but for some reason it seldom happens probably because they become glued to the rim.

edit: I find that Gorilla Tape eventually delaminates when exposed to some chemicals used in sealant. Tubeless valve stems introduce another potential leak spot, especially because they move every time you pump up your tires, so you're just asking for trouble there. 20mm Kapton tape wrapped twice is very effective for sealing spoke holes prior to using a split tube.

Last edited by Clem von Jones; 08-26-16 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 08-17-16, 03:39 PM   #25
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In my experience the Gorilla Tape method of tubeless is an exercise in continuous frustration because of leaks.
In my experience Gorrilla Tape, which shipped with my ENVE rims, was just fine for two years. I bought some Scotch 8896 for my kid's carbon Rovals and also used that on my ENVEs.

Still going strong two years later, all four wheels.
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