Read what I wrote again.

"generalizations suck"

As in people who naively state that riding on any wet trail creates a lot of impact. The point, which it's obvious that you missed, is that soil conditions vary greatly accross the country. Heck, the vary within a few miles in my local area.

So yes, applying one "rule" to every trail (don't ride when it's wet) is stupid.

Why do you assume that riding on wet trails causes harmful ersoioin on all trails?

p.s. One more time, the lesson here is that just because you're trapped in Chicago, don't assume that all trails are the same.

That's not it at all, but considering your obvious lack of experience, I guess I can understand why you would follow a naive claim with yet another goofy observation that is wide of the mark.

Only clay soils in my area. Our local 'rule' is simply no riding on wet trails.
We spend a lot of time maintaining trails, and if we catch you, you will be flogged.
If you want to play in the mud, go find a construction site or something.

Most of our trails are in watershed areas, with a delicate ecological balance.
We consider it a privilege, not a right, to ride these trails.
Excessive use during unfavorable soil conditions will basically ruin a good trail around here.

A good way to think about all trail riding, unless you are riding on trails on land that you own.

How about too much rain?
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ht=wilson+toll

Please excuse my ignorance with this question as I haven't been biking for very long. I live in Chicago and the trail I ride is a fire road, I guess, with random singletrack branching off of it. The fire road is at least 50 miles long, however the forest itself is about 2 blocks wide. It just follows a river with urban development on both sides. Aside from the ruts or tire tracks, which are a hassle for future riders, would it be a serious environmental issue to ride on this when its wet? Its not exactly a pristine wilderness area and its almost completely flat. during the winter and spring I rode it when it was wet, but if it actually might be causing real problems I'd probably stop.

well after the snow us really starting to thaw i wont ride because it is just so muddy and it does make a permanent bike tire mark. BUt its now June and the water dries fast except for those patches

I don't ride the trails after a hard rain. If it's one of the typical quick showers then I'll go the next day. If the trails are REALLY wet I'll break out this toy. ;)
http://www.aqua-cycle.com/photos/aqua7l.jpg

which one? :D

This would be me. I would have a 2 month window to ride, and that sure isn't enough.

Well built trails in the rain are amazing. Take the north shore. The damage on those trails are minimal in the scheme of things due to the amount of maintenance that goes into them. Some trails (not all) are even cut in the avoid runoffs and other potentially damaging problems. Trails being cut in say the last 5 years have the environment in mind, especially in these here parts.

My own personal methods are simple. I ride in the rain, after the rain, before the rain. I know the trails fairly well and avoid the ones where damage is more evident.

There are a lot of variables in this. How good is your trail maintenance group (if you even have one) how popular is the trail, do you tread lightly. Was the trail cut properly in the first place and if so, is it still cut properly (there have been trails that have been recut to avoid runoff points and save on erosion) I am not saying to think about this constantly, but I trust and know my trails and the groups working here. We also have a little flip sign at the entrance to the more popular trails for closed and not closed. To say "no I won't ride in or after a rainfall" is an odd claim, you wouldn't last a month in bc (I stress bc because I know how well the trails are built here, I can't make claims for WA and Oregon)

Here is a great example of how the builders in the area

a) protect the trails where needed
b) really work to assit drainage stay its natural course
c) always working to re-enforce existing trails constantly

It also shows how wet the trails are. They are basically in conditions like this year round. Sometimes the work smoothes out the trails but usually the smoothness is replaced with stunts :)

http://www.nsmba.bc.ca/traildaypics/...edsjune505.htm

Yeah, in Vancouver the trails are wet 11 months of the year. The soil on the North Shore and at UBC is basically a mulch of 1000 years of pine needles. Riding it while wet is the norm, and ruts don't develop readily.

In areas where the trail surface disintegrates when wet, i can see how riding in the wet is inconsiderate, but in B.C. i think it's different.

AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHA.

Generalizations suck, eh? Well, I count at least 3 in your post, not to mention the generalization regarding generalizations.

I think claims lacking foundation suck. Some sort of evidence is requisite for the support of a general claim such as "there are also areas where riding on wet trails doesn't create 'a lot of impact'". Do these areas consist solely of granite or other rock? If not, common sense is against you. Water + dirt = mud. Bikes + mud = erosion. Erosion * time = impact. There's some analytic evidence in opposition to your claim. Just so I don't fall victim to my own criticism.

Kudos on the proper use of "myopic" though.

Apparently common sense isn't so common.

Yes, there are many trails that are on rock, DG, or sand that are sustainable when ridden in the wet. There are also many trails which have a trail bed that is primarily loam/mulch (with a smattering of rocks and roots) that withstands water and riding quite well. There are also many trails that have more clay content where trail users, including bikes, leave major ruts and displace soil during the rainy season but the impact is insignificant because those trails are graded at the end of the rainy season.

Those are just a few examples that contradict the namby pamby claims of the "all riding in the wet will destroy the trails/is bad for mountain biking" sheeple.

It's funny that alleged mountain bikers have been scared into thinking that any riding in the wet is automatically a TERRIBLE thing.

The fact that you considered my specific comments in the quoted post as generalizations is almost as funny. Almost.

p.s. Just because you lack the experience to understand a claim doesn't mean that the claim is lacking foundation. It just means that you lack enough experience to understand it.

Where I live here, it rarely rains to begin with, so it seems a non-issue. But when it does, myself and my other riding buddies, we do NOT go riding while it's still soggy out. It drys out fast though, so a day or two of non-riding isnt' a big deal. And speaking of drying fast, a ride will cut ruts in the trail that can stay there for weeks. Everyone uses these trails and not everyone can handle a cut up trail. It's more of a public courtesy than anything.

Honestly ...

You should work with the local trail group to fill in, re-route, or bridge over mud-holes.

Ok, let's go in order. This will be fun.

1. Common sense is not common, nor is it usually sense. It's an expression.
2. What exactly is specific about "there are many ..." or "there are also areas ..." ??? Those are, by definition, general statements made about "many" "areas". They are not "specific" (specific means specified, not generic --general-- places, locations, things, etc.)
3. Experience has nothing to do with whether a stated claim has foundation. While a person with similar experience to you may be able to infer the foundation you ASSUME in your claim, as you stated yourself: conditions vary greatly. Where conditions vary, so do experiences, hence the need for more than inferential support for your claim. The lack of SHARED experience is all you can claim on my part. And I thank many deities for that fact. Check out Walt Whitman some time.

p.s. Just because you think you know more than everyone else, and that your generalizations are founded upon experience doesn't make you right. It's a fact that many mountain bike trails are closed each year by environmental agencies. They are closed because those agencies have experienced rapid erosion due to improper use of trails, including riding them when they are too wet.

Where have I ever claimed that it's ok to ride any trail when it's wet?

Really, if you don't want to continue to look like a complete idiot, you really should pay attention to the discussion.

#1. Yes, there are trails that suffer when they are ridden when it's wet.

#2. Yes, there are many trails that do just fine when they are ridden when wet.

My comments address the clueless folks who ride their trails (#2 above) and assume that riding any trails (including trails as described in #2 above) is some kind of horrible experience.

Again, it's too bad that you apparently lack the experience that would help you understand these simple concepts.

My suggestion:

Ride in more diverse terrain. I would suggest starting in Northern California, then visitng NV, WA, BC, UT, CO, and AZ. That should be a good start and as a bonus, your education will take you to some great riding.

If, after your first round of education you're still confused, I can suggest some more places to ride.

Good luck!

Well, I see the level of maturity of your posts has risen.

First, I never controverted the fact that there are many trails that do not suffer from rain (notice my first post in this thread ... "unless the trail is made of granite or some other rock...". Second, insults only make you look bad. Third, my experience with mountain biking is irrelevant. Your experience as a reasoning human being however, is relevant, and markedly lacking.

If your comments were intended to address the "clueless" folks (who are "clueless" only because their experience differs from yours -- an infantile perspective) you should refrain from making sweeping statements regarding "all" people who think rain + trail use means negative impact to the trail environment.

As far as my "lack of understanding" ... well, you think what you like, because it's obvious you're not using reason. As for your obvious desire to be right, and make everyone else look stupid (the sole purpose of your posts in this thread), enjoy. I'm sure you'll have a happy life.

And as for your "concepts". Look up the definition of concept. Please. You have expressed none.

The simple fact is, UNLESS (in big capitals for you, so you don't miss it this time) your trails are all rock, or similar material impervious to water, riding your bike on the trail will cause negative impact, and that will likely lead to the closure of that trail over time. And that's something we should all be on guard against, regardless of our opinions on "generalizations" or our need to fiddle with semantics.

Justsomeguy - honestly, you come off looking like an a$$hole in this whole thread. Rather than trying to educate you appear to enjoy contradicting for the sake of contradicting.

If you're trying to educate, you're failing. If you're trying to be an a$$hole, you're succeeding.

wow, i really did not mean to start a war.... it's been raining here for about two weeks straight and i just want to ride. i looked at the web sites of the trail builders in my area to see if they had any rules but i could not find any real guidelines. i live in KC so we have non clay rocky rooty trails. maybe i'll just join a trail group so i don't feel like a selfish ass for wanting to play in the mud a little. I still think there must be some allowable amount of mud riding that won't ruin the trail.