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Early '90's Marin Team Build Project

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Early '90's Marin Team Build Project

Old 04-16-19, 02:06 PM
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pressed001 
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Early '90's Marin Team Build Project

Hello all,
This little build of mine kicked off today when I decided to make some space in the hobby-room by dismantling a couple of bikes, one of which was a recently acquired early '90's Marin Team.

The frame is naturally Tange steel. Which type I am not exactly sure but would like to believe that it is the Ultralight. The ultra thin downtube is to me a good sign of this. The groupset is almost complete XTR M900 except for the brakes. It is too bad that the original fork is also not on the bike. I am however really impressed with the original Ritchey wheels and XTR hubs. After cleaning, these looked new and roll butter smooth. These will be getting new bearings and grease after some time. I hope that the cones are in good order. Come to mind, I have not looked at the cassette. Sure hope it is also XTR.

Here's some pics from the original online ad:












And here's some pics I took after giving it a general clean-up:






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Old 04-16-19, 02:21 PM
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During the once-over, I notices a couple issues:

1) Bottle cage bosses are torn away from the frame:


2) Unknown BB:




I was able to remove the lock-nuts around the BB after some suggestions here on the forums (thanks). But even after picking up the correct tools, the BB itself wouldn't move:




Today, the frame was completely disassembled, save the BB, and brought to a bike manufacturer here in Zürich (Fahrradbau Stolz). After speaking briefly with them about the two issues, they kindly agreed to fix the bosses and remove the BB for me. The bosses will be replaced with a "star" shaped boss instead of the simple cylinder. I believe they do this because the round hole for the boss is no longer exact and slightly corroded. Also the star will give extra support on the ultra-thin downtube.

When these guys are done, I will decide the next steps. Those range from throwing some spray clear-coat over it as a temporary protectant before hanging the frame up for some time. Or perhaps the next steps will commence with a clearcoat removal, a brushing and perhaps a plating.

At this time I am on the lookout for an XTR BB and some canti's. The installed BB was 110mm and I thought it was a bit on the long side. Maybe a 107 would be best, if I can find it.

The right hand shifter also had some issues with the return spring. I will be taking that apart to see if I can't fix it.

Anyway, looking forward to working on this fine classic mountain bike and am particularly excited about all the various plating and finishing types that can be done with this steel frame.
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Old 04-17-19, 02:20 PM
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Good job. I usually just use channel locks to remove those BB lock rings. I haven't had to remove a tight BB with a pin tool yet (have successfully done it with small pliers every time). However, I did recently acquire a Park HCW-4 so don't I have to rely on my pliers.
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Old 04-17-19, 03:41 PM
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Thanks Katsup. I hope that new tool ends up helping you out.
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Old 05-05-19, 04:56 AM
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Picked up the frame yesterday:











I'd say they did a great job on the bottle holder bosses. This is really a gorgeous frame!

They also removed the BB which needed to be "cut out" as it was so stuck.
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Old 05-05-19, 05:03 AM
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The next step being considered is conversion for disc brakes. V-brakes is the one factor which is preventing me from installing some top quality wheels. Maybe we can change this? What I will do later today is take a 26" disc wheel with 160mm rotor and see if it will fit. If the rotor has enough room I will speak with the shop about 1) cold setting the frame for the 135mm hub, 2) welding a disc brake mount on, and 3) welding further structural support onto the seat/chain stays. Preferably long slender "fins" which won't be an eyesore.
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Old 05-05-19, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by pressed001 View Post
The next step being considered is conversion for disc brakes. V-brakes is the one factor which is preventing me from installing some top quality wheels. Maybe we can change this? What I will do later today is take a 26" disc wheel with 160mm rotor and see if it will fit. If the rotor has enough room I will speak with the shop about 1) cold setting the frame for the 135mm hub, 2) welding a disc brake mount on, and 3) welding further structural support onto the seat/chain stays. Preferably long slender "fins" which won't be an eyesore.
Eh I wouldn't. Maybe you could find a disc front fork. Seems like you could find a frame visually identical, with quality steel and disc ready on a market place for the cost of modifying this Marin. Plus I'd spend that money on making this bike look 110% again.

I'm surprised the rear isn't already spaced at 135mm?

Anyway what a gorgeous machine! I'd fix it up and submit a picture to gmbn's Dirt Shed Show, they'll go bonkers over that old Marin!
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Old 05-05-19, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by GrainBrain View Post
Eh I wouldn't. Maybe you could find a disc front fork. Seems like you could find a frame visually identical, with quality steel and disc ready on a market place for the cost of modifying this Marin. Plus I'd spend that money on making this bike look 110% again.

I'm surprised the rear isn't already spaced at 135mm?

Anyway what a gorgeous machine! I'd fix it up and submit a picture to gmbn's Dirt Shed Show, they'll go bonkers over that old Marin!
Yeah, this I will think about. Looking into steel HT frames I found the Kona Unit looks pretty nice. You're right, the dropouts are already at 135mm. Thanks for the input!
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Old 05-05-19, 08:31 AM
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I was surprised when the rear wheel from my wife's bike mounted up with zero clearance issues. There is already plenty of room for the 160mm rotor and maybe even a 180.









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Old 05-10-19, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by GrainBrain View Post
Eh I wouldn't. Maybe you could find a disc front fork. Seems like you could find a frame visually identical, with quality steel and disc ready on a market place for the cost of modifying this Marin. Plus I'd spend that money on making this bike look 110% again.
!
I agree. The frame is beautiful, and I’d leave it be.

Last edited by Kapusta; 05-10-19 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 05-10-19, 08:04 AM
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Wow that's gorgeous
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Old 05-15-19, 01:43 PM
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Thanks. I like it a lot too. But I build my own wheels and there just aint no one out there that makes HQ, wide profile, hookless, tubeless compatible rims for rim-brake bikes. So I really want to throw some disc tabs on here. In fact I just got the quote from a local bike shop and wow I could buy a 29er disc frame for that much so this project might just be getting shelved.
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Old 05-17-19, 04:49 PM
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We have different ideas of "clearance" :-) but I live in muddy terrain. Really sano bike, nice job. Consider some Magura HS-33s instead of a disc conversion?
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Old 05-19-19, 12:18 PM
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Thanks. Yeah, I do CC and only when it is either dry or close to it so for me that 160mm disc has plenty of clearance.

I really want to get away from any type of rim brakes because the rim is an extremely limiting factor. I can get disc rims in any shape, size, color, weight and width as I want. But for rim-brakes I can only get rim A,B or C.

What I am really looking for here regarding rims is a 30mm wide tubeless ready hookless carbon rim. That is a major upgrade from any old school 19-21mm wide aluminum rim.

The bike shop here in Zürich wants a whole bag of cash to do the job so I am looking for other options in Germany. So far one company quoted half as much but I think their work looks a bit sloppy.
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Old 05-19-19, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pressed001 View Post
Thanks. Yeah, I do CC and only when it is either dry or close to it so for me that 160mm disc has plenty of clearance.

I really want to get away from any type of rim brakes because the rim is an extremely limiting factor. I can get disc rims in any shape, size, color, weight and width as I want. But for rim-brakes I can only get rim A,B or C.

What I am really looking for here regarding rims is a 30mm wide tubeless ready hookless carbon rim. That is a major upgrade from any old school 19-21mm wide aluminum rim.

The bike shop here in Zürich wants a whole bag of cash to do the job so I am looking for other options in Germany. So far one company quoted half as much but I think their work looks a bit sloppy.
Why do you need (or even want) 30mm wide rims when that frame won't clear wide tires to start with? How wide is that one you have pictured? 2.2"?

Here are some 23-25mm tubeless compatible rim brake rims: https://store.hedcycling.com/belgium...rake-clincher/

Last edited by Kapusta; 05-19-19 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 05-19-19, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pressed001 View Post
What I am really looking for here regarding rims is a 30mm wide tubeless ready hookless carbon rim. That is a major upgrade from any old school 19-21mm wide aluminum rim.
In the US, we have an expression that is relevant here:

"lipstick on a pig"
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Old 05-22-19, 11:27 PM
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I have a similar project going on from a late 80s early 90s frame, I put 2.4 inch Maxxis Ardents, and with about 3-4 mm of clearance, that was really pushing it for me. As for rims, it's not really a limiting factor since they're still plentiful. I've put hundreds of miles on this thing, and ridden through gnarly terrain. I've only had to true my wheels once or twice, and it wasn't even that badly out of shape. So long as you know the limits of the bike, rim brakes and tubes are perfectly fine. Just take it easy. I run 28-30 psi front-rear on my tubes (and I ride rigid) and no flats so far since I don't try to blaze down descents.
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Old 05-24-19, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Why do you need (or even want) 30mm wide rims when that frame won't clear wide tires to start with? How wide is that one you have pictured? 2.2"?

Here are some 23-25mm tubeless compatible rim brake rims: https://store.hedcycling.com/belgium...rake-clincher/
My road bike has 29mm wide tubeless-hookless rims with 28mm tires which pump out to 30mm on the wider rims. The benefits are lower pressure, more grip, and more ride comfort and are not limited to only road bikes. This is why manufacturers across the board are offering wider rims for all disciplines.

My latest 27.5" build uses Crest MkIII rims which are wider than their predecessor and I noticed a lot more grip while ascending. This is because the width of the tire's surface area increases dramatically with wider rims. That together with lower tire pressure means a lot more grip. (Honestly it would be great to understand the math behind it and calculate exactly how much more surface area. I guestimate up to 50% more lateral surface area.) I was even able to ascend some pretty heavy grades while out of the saddle, something that was impossible with my Stan's No-Tubes 355 rims (Crest MKIII pre-predecessors) and same tires (Thunder Burt).

Thanks for the link. Those are however 700c rims. There are a lot of 700c's our there with wider profiles. At this time Enve has the best wide profile rim brake rims for road bikes but they cost $1000 per rim!
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Old 05-24-19, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by goldensprocket View Post
In the US, we have an expression that is relevant here:

"lipstick on a pig"
Well this little piggy's gonna be purdy. Mmm'kay.
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Old 05-24-19, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by turtledove View Post
I have a similar project going on from a late 80s early 90s frame, I put 2.4 inch Maxxis Ardents, and with about 3-4 mm of clearance, that was really pushing it for me. As for rims, it's not really a limiting factor since they're still plentiful. I've put hundreds of miles on this thing, and ridden through gnarly terrain. I've only had to true my wheels once or twice, and it wasn't even that badly out of shape. So long as you know the limits of the bike, rim brakes and tubes are perfectly fine. Just take it easy. I run 28-30 psi front-rear on my tubes (and I ride rigid) and no flats so far since I don't try to blaze down descents.
I would say that we do pretty different types of biking. I like what you say though and it is all true. What do you mean by "tubes"? Tubular? I like Ardents and I love Maxxis. Sad to say though, Schwalbe's Thunder Burts win over Tread Lite's for my riding.

This ride last year on this bike is the reason why I built this bike and also why I want discs on this Marin Team! The last leg of that route is about 1 mile drop in elevation and was murder for my hands with the rim-brakes!

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Old 05-24-19, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by pressed001 View Post
I would say that we do pretty different types of biking. I like what you say though and it is all true. What do you mean by "tubes"? Tubular? I like Ardents and I love Maxxis. Sad to say though, Schwalbe's Thunder Burts win over Tread Lite's for my riding.

This ride last year on this bike is the reason why I built this bike and also why I want discs on this Marin Team! The last leg of that route is about 1 mile drop in elevation and was murder for my hands with the rim-brakes!

In that case I'd recommend giving a look into a modern hardtail, or maybe even a bikepacking bike for the kind of riding you want to do. Your bike is not going to be as comfortable as those, and depending on the circumstances, it could be more economical than spending money on new fork, new wheelset, and everything on an outdated frame. If you're in the EU, there's plenty of great cheap options available, I've been staring at these bikes for weeks even though I don't need them at the moment lol https://nordestcycles.com/en/cuadros
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Old 05-24-19, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by pressed001 View Post
My road bike has 29mm wide tubeless-hookless rims with 28mm tires which pump out to 30mm on the wider rims. The benefits are lower pressure, more grip, and more ride comfort and are not limited to only road bikes. This is why manufacturers across the board are offering wider rims for all disciplines.

My latest 27.5" build uses Crest MkIII rims which are wider than their predecessor and I noticed a lot more grip while ascending. This is because the width of the tire's surface area increases dramatically with wider rims. That together with lower tire pressure means a lot more grip. (Honestly it would be great to understand the math behind it and calculate exactly how much more surface area. I guestimate up to 50% more lateral surface area.) I was even able to ascend some pretty heavy grades while out of the saddle, something that was impossible with my Stan's No-Tubes 355 rims (Crest MKIII pre-predecessors) and same tires (Thunder Burt).
Yes, this IS why rims are going wider.

However, there are limits to how wide you want to go with any given mtb tire.

The thing you need to keep in mind with MTB tires is that the treads are designed with a certain profile shape in mind. If you go TOO wide with the rim, you end up squaring off the tire enough that the side tread will be contacting the ground the whole time you’re riding, rather than just when you lean the bike.

If the tire you have pictured is a 2.2 on narrow rims, then you’re probably looking at a 2.0 maximum with a 30 mm rim. No 26” MTB 2.0 tire was ever designed to be run with anything close to that wide of a rim.

There are optimum rim widths for MTB tires, and it is a bit wider than we used to think it was. However, that does not simply mean that wider is always better.

Yes, 30mm is a fairly common MTB rim width these days. However, so are 2.4-2.6” tires for even non-plus sized bikes. Also, these tires are being designed for these wide rim widths.

If your plan was to run road slicks (or really any tire with no differentiates side knobs) on this bike, I don’t think this would be a problem. However, if you are looking at running mountain bike tires with any sort of side knob, I think you may end up being very disappointed with the results of a 30 mm rim and 2.0 (ish) MTB tire.

Last edited by Kapusta; 05-24-19 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 05-25-19, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Yes, this IS why rims are going wider.

However, there are limits to how wide you want to go with any given mtb tire.

The thing you need to keep in mind with MTB tires is that the treads are designed with a certain profile shape in mind. If you go TOO wide with the rim, you end up squaring off the tire enough that the side tread will be contacting the ground the whole time you’re riding, rather than just when you lean the bike.

If the tire you have pictured is a 2.2 on narrow rims, then you’re probably looking at a 2.0 maximum with a 30 mm rim. No 26” MTB 2.0 tire was ever designed to be run with anything close to that wide of a rim.

There are optimum rim widths for MTB tires, and it is a bit wider than we used to think it was. However, that does not simply mean that wider is always better.

Yes, 30mm is a fairly common MTB rim width these days. However, so are 2.4-2.6” tires for even non-plus sized bikes. Also, these tires are being designed for these wide rim widths.

If your plan was to run road slicks (or really any tire with no differentiates side knobs) on this bike, I don’t think this would be a problem. However, if you are looking at running mountain bike tires with any sort of side knob, I think you may end up being very disappointed with the results of a 30 mm rim and 2.0 (ish) MTB tire.
Great input and great points. Thank you. I check all this out and found a monster awesome article here. What a great read!

In the article he's using 2.35" tires and analyzes the changes when switching from 22.5mm rims to 30, 35 and then 40mm rims.

All said and done, looks like I'm pretty safe when changing to 30mm rims with my current tires. 35mm rims might cause clearance issues for my frame. And like he said, with the 35's the side tread starts to have less of an effect with his tires, meaning with mine I should stay with a slimmer rim.

Again thanks for the input. Good stuff.
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