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12 spd upgrade

Old 09-18-20, 07:20 PM
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12 spd upgrade

Has anyone upgraded to 12 and have some feedback? Thinking of this just because and why not. I was a late adopter to 11spd but I'm bored...
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Old 09-19-20, 08:34 AM
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The better upgrade would be to SS
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Old 09-20-20, 01:01 AM
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Iím pretty happy with 1x11 on my budget trail bike. I donít think Iíll upgrade the drivetrain on the bike Iíve got. Iíd rather shop for a better fork. But when it comes time to get a new bike Iíll take whatís on it.
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Old 09-21-20, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by qclabrat View Post
Has anyone upgraded to 12 and have some feedback? Thinking of this just because and why not. I was a late adopter to 11spd but I'm bored...
I've gone from a 3x10 to a 1x12 with a 10-51 cassette. It works really well, but I miss the range when going down and there's a couple of gears where the step between them is too big for my taste. 11sp, with even less range and/or bigger steps, I'd probably hate it.
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Old 09-22-20, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
I've gone from a 3x10 to a 1x12 with a 10-51 cassette. It works really well, but I miss the range when going down and there's a couple of gears where the step between them is too big for my taste. 11sp, with even less range and/or bigger steps, I'd probably hate it.
which cassette did you use? I know when going to 11 spd, lowest gear jumps for a shimano cassette were too great for my liking. So all my 11spd cassettes are either SRAM or Sunrace
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Old 09-22-20, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by c_m_shooter View Post
The better upgrade would be to SS
already done, have a ROS9 which is my dedicated SS, it even has a blue Endless cog to match the paint
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Old 09-22-20, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
Iím pretty happy with 1x11 on my budget trail bike. I donít think Iíll upgrade the drivetrain on the bike Iíve got. Iíd rather shop for a better fork. But when it comes time to get a new bike Iíll take whatís on it.
bike which will get the 12 is a full rigid Carver with a Whiskey carbon fork, do you recommend another? I considered upgrading the full suspension bike but like the current setup with 11speed SRAM at the moment, its got a Pike with a Luftkappe upgrade
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Old 09-22-20, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by qclabrat View Post
which cassette did you use? I know when going to 11 spd, lowest gear jumps for a shimano cassette were too great for my liking. So all my 11spd cassettes are either SRAM or Sunrace
SRAM has a huge gap at the low end. The gap to the last sprocket makes it feel out of place and is an atrocious design. I specifically bought a bike with Shimano for this single reason.

I'm using an XT 10-51 cassette. I specially hate the jumps between the lowest sprockets as that's what I use when riding fast on flattish areas and I can't find a comfortable gear. I don't notice the jumps all that much when doeing real climbing or when I'm descending. The 10 to 12 jump is clearly too big and makes me uncomfortable when riding fast in the flats.

When descending, my 30t chainring combined with the 10t sprocket is clearly insufficient over 35kph on rough terrain, or 40kph on smooth terrain where I can pedal faster. It doesn't bother me all that much when riding on the mountains as I rarely go at such a high speed while peddalling, but on the ocassional downhill on a road or smooth trail is a PITA.

I know I could use a bigger chainring, but I want the low-end as I use it. IMHO, it's always better to loose top speed than being unable to climb comfortably. It never ceases to amaze me that with my 10 year old 3x10 setup didn't have to make a tradeoff between climbing gears and top speed. TBH, my old bike had the occasional chain drop, but it was less of an issue than the lack of range on current drivetrains.
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Old 09-25-20, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
SRAM has a huge gap at the low end. The gap to the last sprocket makes it feel out of place and is an atrocious design. I specifically bought a bike with Shimano for this single reason.

I'm using an XT 10-51 cassette. I specially hate the jumps between the lowest sprockets as that's what I use when riding fast on flattish areas and I can't find a comfortable gear. I don't notice the jumps all that much when doeing real climbing or when I'm descending. The 10 to 12 jump is clearly too big and makes me uncomfortable when riding fast in the flats.

When descending, my 30t chainring combined with the 10t sprocket is clearly insufficient over 35kph on rough terrain, or 40kph on smooth terrain where I can pedal faster. It doesn't bother me all that much when riding on the mountains as I rarely go at such a high speed while peddalling, but on the ocassional downhill on a road or smooth trail is a PITA.

I know I could use a bigger chainring, but I want the low-end as I use it. IMHO, it's always better to loose top speed than being unable to climb comfortably. It never ceases to amaze me that with my 10 year old 3x10 setup didn't have to make a tradeoff between climbing gears and top speed. TBH, my old bike had the occasional chain drop, but it was less of an issue than the lack of range on current drivetrains.
I just upgraded to a 10-52t SRAM 12 speed cassette to go with my 32t chainring, and I couldn't imagine anything lower. 30t and a 51t combo is overkill on the lowend. I couldn't imagine going slower than what I already do, keeping the front end from wandering about is enough of challenge. Going slower will make the wander even worse.

I would go for a quality fork first, assuming your bike has an entry level fork. If it's an older fork that hasn't been overhauled and rebuilt, get a new fork. It can change the way you ride, not just the rough stuff, but the cornering as well.
Look out for hub compatibility. If you have Shimano 11 speed, the NX cassette can fit since it uses the same hub, but not the GX or above, those require XD hubs. The new 12 speed Shimano won't fit either, those use MicroSpline hubs.
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Old 09-26-20, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by beermode View Post
I just upgraded to a 10-52t SRAM 12 speed cassette to go with my 32t chainring, and I couldn't imagine anything lower. 30t and a 51t combo is overkill on the lowend. I couldn't imagine going slower than what I already do, keeping the front end from wandering about is enough of challenge. Going slower will make the wander even worse.

I would go for a quality fork first, assuming your bike has an entry level fork. If it's an older fork that hasn't been overhauled and rebuilt, get a new fork. It can change the way you ride, not just the rough stuff, but the cornering as well.
Look out for hub compatibility. If you have Shimano 11 speed, the NX cassette can fit since it uses the same hub, but not the GX or above, those require XD hubs. The new 12 speed Shimano won't fit either, those use MicroSpline hubs.
A 30 - 51 on a 29ď bike is similar to the typical 22 - 32 on a 26ď bikes.

If you don't need that sort of gearing, you don't have climbs steep enough. I prefer to pedal at 5kph if necessary rather than walking carrying a bike.
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Old 09-28-20, 02:21 PM
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1x11 to 1x12 on an MTB just for the extra gear sounds like a total waste of money to me.

Surely there is better bang for the upgrade buck elsewhere.
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Old 09-28-20, 08:23 PM
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Yeah I say forget going to 12 speed, go Box Prime 9 instead. You will get more neato comments with that than 12 speed unless that 12 is AXS. 11 and 12 is so common place meh.

But really as it is with 11 and even 10 speed I'm skipping 2 or 3 gears nearly ever time I shift. I'm rarely in 1 gear long enough to worry about perfect cadence unlike my road bike.
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Old 10-01-20, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
A 30 - 51 on a 29“ bike is similar to the typical 22 - 32 on a 26“ bikes.

If you don't need that sort of gearing, you don't have climbs steep enough. I prefer to pedal at 5kph if necessary rather than walking carrying a bike.
We have plenty of steep climbs here. Enough that it necessitates some good technical skill to prevent the bike from wheeling up. But you do need to maintain some sort of speed to prevent front wheel wander. I couldn't imagine the cadence needed with a 30t chainring.
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Old 10-01-20, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Canker View Post
Yeah I say forget going to 12 speed, go Box Prime 9 instead. You will get more neato comments with that than 12 speed unless that 12 is AXS. 11 and 12 is so common place meh.

But really as it is with 11 and even 10 speed I'm skipping 2 or 3 gears nearly ever time I shift. I'm rarely in 1 gear long enough to worry about perfect cadence unlike my road bike.
I tend do things based on my needs, not neato comments.
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Old 10-01-20, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by beermode View Post
We have plenty of steep climbs here. Enough that it necessitates some good technical skill to prevent the bike from wheeling up. But you do need to maintain some sort of speed to prevent front wheel wander. I couldn't imagine the cadence needed with a 30t chainring.
A 30/51 gear with a 29x2.3 tire like the one that my bike has, rides at 6.5kph at 80rpm. That's a perfectly rideable speed.

If your front wheel wanders maybe you need to improve your position on the bike. I've had my front wheel wander lots of times, but never on a climb in which I could maintain 80rpm.

Last edited by Amt0571; 10-02-20 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 10-02-20, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
A 30/51 gear with a 29x2.3 tire like the one that my bike has, rides at 6.5kph at 80rpm. That's a perfectly rideable speed.

If your front wheel wanders maybe you need to improve your position on the bike. I've had my front wheel wander lots of times, but never on a climb in which I could maintain 80rpm.
Yeah, 30/51 on a 29er is low, but not unusually low. Is is pretty much the same as 22/34 on a 26er, which was very common on 3x9s for years..
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Old 10-02-20, 05:16 PM
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Aside: there's a real proliferation of 1x rear drivetrains right now. Box is a few years old now and Microshift has been around too. Sunrace and TRP are both having a go.
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Old 10-07-20, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
1x11 to 1x12 on an MTB just for the extra gear sounds like a total waste of money to me.

Surely there is better bang for the upgrade buck elsewhere.
There's probably better upgrades, but the jumps between sprockets on 1x12 are already big enough. I can't imagine 1x11.
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Old 10-07-20, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
There's probably better upgrades, but the jumps between sprockets on 1x12 are already big enough. I can't imagine 1x11.
To each his own, I guess.

It is a total non--issue, IMO. Heck, the jumps could be a lot larger as far as I am concerned. Were this a road bike I might feel differently.

Last edited by Kapusta; 10-07-20 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 10-07-20, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
To each his own, but it is a total non--issue, IMO. Heck, they could be even wider.
For me it's mostly a non issue, except when I want to go fast on flat terrain and can't find a comfortable cadence between the 10t and 12t sprocket. Also it's a PITA on the ocassional downhill on paved roads or really smooth doubletrack where it's impossible to pedal at more than 40km/h.

It's not a dealbreaker, but a 20 year old 3x9 didn't have this issues.
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Old 10-07-20, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
For me it's mostly a non issue, except when I want to go fast on flat terrain and can't find a comfortable cadence between the 10t and 12t sprocket. Also it's a PITA on the ocassional downhill on paved roads or really smooth doubletrack where it's impossible to pedal at more than 40km/h.

It's not a dealbreaker, but a 20 year old 3x9 didn't have this issues.
Huh. 20 years ago I had already ditched the big ring from my 3x9 mtb setup. Only time I miss anything higher than 32/11 is going downhill on pavement or a smooth gravel road. Otherwise, anytime I am going fast enough to spin out 32/11, it is steep enough that my speed is determined by my braking, not my pedaling. I am sure there have been exceptions to this, but it is not something I would ever make an equipment change over.

Out of curiosity, what size ring and cassette are you running?

I can see that 1x is not ideal for people needing wider range and tighter spacing.... and every gear that can be added to the cassette makes the switch more doable. For me that could have happened with 9 speed if they had made 11-46 cassettes back in the day. For others, it may take 11, 12, or more to make it work.

Last edited by Kapusta; 10-07-20 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 10-07-20, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Huh. 20 years ago I had already ditched the big ring from my 3x9 mtb setup. Only time I miss anything higher than 32/11 is going downhill on pavement or a smooth gravel road. Otherwise, anytime I am going fast enough to spin out 32/11, it is steep enough that my speed is determined by my braking, not my pedaling. I am sure there have been exceptions to this, but it is not something I would ever make an equipment change over.

Out of curiosity, what size ring and cassette are you running?
I'm running a 30t ring with a Shimano 10-51 cassette. I know most people use bigger chainrings, but I want the low end as I use it a lot on steep climbs, to save energy on long rides, or simply to keep pedalling when my body is knackered after riding for too long.

To be honest, 1x is perfect 80% of the time, but on flat land and fast downhills it doesn't have enough range or a tight enough spacing for my taste. On flat land I'm capable of spinning out my 30-10. With my old 3x10 I always had one or two cogs to spare when pushing at my max on flat land.

Last edited by Amt0571; 10-07-20 at 07:38 AM.
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