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motor vehicles and mountain bikes had the most impact

Old 02-16-21, 08:01 PM
  #1  
tungsten
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motor vehicles and mountain bikes had the most impact

hikers the next most, and horseback riders had the least.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/02...ess-will-help/

Quote below is f*cked up....
Forest Service Statement on Electronic Bicycle Use:
“Emerging technologies such as e-bikes are changing the way people enjoy their visits to national forests and grasslands. Today, more than 60,000 miles of trails and roads on national forests and grasslands are currently open to e-bike use. As use trends change with time and new technologies, the way we manage lands to ensure their long-term health and resilience must change as well. This is why we are closely examining our policy to identify ways to expand access (emphasis added) for Americans to enjoy these recreation opportunities on our forests and grasslands in ways that meet user needs while continuing to protect forest resources.”

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Old 02-16-21, 09:24 PM
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You really should quote something like that in context:

Naylor and Wisdom (2009) found that elk feeding and resting behavior was impacted by all
types of human use, but motor vehicles and mountain bikes had the most impact, hikers the
next most, and horseback riders had the least.
So yeah, Elk don't grok things that go fast on wheels, they're pretty wary of people but horses kinda make sense to them.

Overall an interesting article about some challenging realities - the mere presence of people, people on wheels, and much of it devoted to the unique issues of people on motorized things.
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Old 02-17-21, 07:30 AM
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Oh no they want to expand access to the outdoors to people who aren't big oil, logging or coal companies but are riding bikes but also try and keep the forests safe. Eeeeek sound the alarms.

Like or not people ride bikes and e-bikes are growing in popularity and they aren't going away and people who are stuck in the past about them are going to be left behind. This is an ever changing world and more e-bikes is better than more gas powered motor vehicles like motorcycles which do some actual damage. Yes an e-bike could damage a trial so could anyone else and frequently they do. If you ride like a normal person and not a jackass you won't destroy so much and if they make the trails it will be less tempting for folks to make their own and destroy more.
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Old 02-17-21, 09:47 AM
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E-bikes are fine. As long as they stay off the mountain bike trail. And it's not about whether or not they will destroy the trail or not. It's about their speed and a safety factor.

You ever ride an e-mountain bike? I tried it once at demo. Specialized Turbo Levo. I could fly up hills so fast it was crazy.

If I'm busting my ass on a climb, the last thing I want is someone creeping up behind me on their pedal assisted e-bike.
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Old 02-17-21, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Oh no they want to expand access to the outdoors to people who aren't big oil, logging or coal companies but are riding bikes but also try and keep the forests safe. Eeeeek sound the alarms.

Like or not people ride bikes and e-bikes are growing in popularity and they aren't going away ore.

e-bikes are great!

got caught up in the moment on my current bike build , but i slapped my forehead when i realized forhow much i have invested so far, i could have easilly had a nice Turbo Levo . Know a guy who has lost a significant amount of weight riding his and it helps him extend the rides and access trails he couldnt do otherwise (being in Oklahoma, i am in easy drive distance to the Bentonville area and can attest it is fun, but you have to have your climbing legs to really enjoy a lot of it
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Old 02-17-21, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post

If I'm busting my ass on a climb, the last thing I want is someone creeping up behind me on their pedal assisted e-bike.
Lol - the guys’ i ride with are all Cat 2 or Cat 1 Masters age riders. I am not. Im an extrack sprinter who weighs well over 200 pounds now.

I get this sensation on any climb from my buddies passing me at e bike speeds. Unless i am wearing ear buds, i can hear them coming from far enough back to give them some room (their bikes have brakes too - so do e bikes) . If im wearing ear buds, i get a good natured slap on the ass and hear a lot of laughter as they motor past
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Old 02-20-21, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
E-bikes are fine. As long as they stay off the mountain bike trail. And it's not about whether or not they will destroy the trail or not. It's about their speed and a safety factor.

You ever ride an e-mountain bike? I tried it once at demo. Specialized Turbo Levo. I could fly up hills so fast it was crazy.

If I'm busting my ass on a climb, the last thing I want is someone creeping up behind me on their pedal assisted e-bike.
Not looking to start anything but let me play the devil advocate.
So old people who need an assist can't be on your bike trails with an e-bike? You know the ones that paved and paid for those paths you are climbing?
My knees are shot out but I still love riding bikes and a little assist won't hurt. But I don't have one anyways.
Again NOT trying to start anything.
Cheers.

Last edited by DomoNishiki; 02-20-21 at 01:07 AM.
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Old 02-20-21, 07:13 PM
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I have found two sports that put me in proximity of wild creatures much more than being on foot. It seems that animals don't run away or run at all when I am either kayaking on on a bike, either biking on the road with one of my gravel bikes or on a trail with my MTB.
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Old 02-22-21, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by DomoNishiki View Post
Not looking to start anything but let me play the devil advocate.
So old people who need an assist can't be on your bike trails with an e-bike? You know the ones that paved and paid for those paths you are climbing?
My knees are shot out but I still love riding bikes and a little assist won't hurt. But I don't have one anyways.
Again NOT trying to start anything.
Cheers.
So your knees are shot. You are 5-6 miles back in the woods on the mountain bike trail and your bike breaks down and you have no way to fix it on the trail.

Are your shot knees in good enough shape to walk you and your 50 lb. bike back to the trailhead?
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Old 02-22-21, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
So your knees are shot. You are 5-6 miles back in the woods on the mountain bike trail and your bike breaks down and you have no way to fix it on the trail.

Are your shot knees in good enough shape to walk you and your 50 lb. bike back to the trailhead?
This quote wasn't about me per se it was a hypothetical situation. I wouldn't be on a 50# bike. I have a Nishiki Cromoly gravel bike I do well enough on. As I said, why exclude older healthier people(not me perhaps but I can roll a 50# bike just fine) who need an assist and maybe not as robust and energetic as someone in their 30's from riding the trails. There's too much "No old people on the road! Get out of my way" mentality. I see this too much in society casting old people aside if they aren't healthy enough or strong enough. They have every right to be there as you do enjoying it. Respectfully of course.
Peace.
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Old 02-22-21, 10:39 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by DomoNishiki View Post
This quote wasn't about me per se it was a hypothetical situation. I wouldn't be on a 50# bike. I have a Nishiki Cromoly gravel bike I do well enough on. As I said, why exclude older healthier people(not me perhaps but I can roll a 50# bike just fine) who need an assist and maybe not as robust and energetic as someone in their 30's from riding the trails. There's too much "No old people on the road! Get out of my way" mentality. I see this too much in society casting old people aside if they aren't healthy enough or strong enough. They have every right to be there as you do enjoying it. Respectfully of course.
Peace.
Well what I described is also a hypothetical, but realistic, situation. I have been with friends way back on the trail that have had a mechanical breakdown and have had to walk their bike out. And the typical E-Mountain Bike weighs about 50 lbs.

And that's the thing with these bikes...Since you don't exert as much effort it allows people ride further into the back country.

I'm not tossing old people aside, but if you have knees that are shot or some other limiting physical condition...should you be riding on a trail way into the back country when you possibly would have trouble walking you and the bike out?

I think e-bikes are great for commuters or the recreational riders around town on bike paths. But don't like their use on Mountain Bike Trails.
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Old 02-22-21, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Well what I described is also a hypothetical, but realistic, situation. I have been with friends way back on the trail that have had a mechanical breakdown and have had to walk their bike out. And the typical E-Mountain Bike weighs about 50 lbs.

And that's the thing with these bikes...Since you don't exert as much effort it allows people ride further into the back country.

I'm not tossing old people aside, but if you have knees that are shot or some other limiting physical condition...should you be riding on a trail way into the back country when you possibly would have trouble walking you and the bike out?

I think e-bikes are great for commuters or the recreational riders around town on bike paths. But don't like their use on Mountain Bike Trails.

Many of us have been in situations or far enough back into trails that hiking out would be problematic regardless of health or circumstances ---- since you have been riding for a long time - youve likely done this as well. Lots of times
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Old 02-22-21, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Well what I described is also a hypothetical, but realistic, situation. I have been with friends way back on the trail that have had a mechanical breakdown and have had to walk their bike out. And the typical E-Mountain Bike weighs about 50 lbs.

And that's the thing with these bikes...Since you don't exert as much effort it allows people ride further into the back country.

I'm not tossing old people aside, but if you have knees that are shot or some other limiting physical condition...should you be riding on a trail way into the back country when you possibly would have trouble walking you and the bike out?

I think e-bikes are great for commuters or the recreational riders around town on bike paths. But don't like their use on Mountain Bike Trails.
So basically a e bike is fine until its in your backyard?
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Old 02-22-21, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
Many of us have been in situations or far enough back into trails that hiking out would be problematic regardless of health or circumstances ---- since you have been riding for a long time - youve likely done this as well. Lots of times
Knock on wood...I haven't had to walk a bike out yet. But I don't have any physical limitations at the moment that would prevent me from walking out if my bike broke down.
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Old 02-22-21, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sloppy12 View Post
So basically a e bike is fine until its in your backyard?
My backyard is road, mountain, gravel and fat.
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Old 02-22-21, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
My backyard is road, mountain, gravel and fat.
Oh.... You live in your car?
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Old 02-22-21, 03:25 PM
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I think you were suggesting that "my backyard" means I only ride mountain bike trails.

I'm telling you that I ride road, gravel, mountain bike trails and snow bike trails. There is a place for e-bikes, but single track trails isn't one of those places.

Last edited by prj71; 02-23-21 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 03-03-21, 01:30 AM
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I believe mountain biking is the greatest single threat to wildlife habitat integrity and new wilderness classifications.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/06...en-wilderness/

Also...
This is a short email that Brian Horejsi sent me on mountain biking and bears. It is a thoughtful review of how mountain biking can have substantial impacts on wildlife.
https://www.thewildlifenews.com/2014/...brian-horesji/

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Old 03-03-21, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
Many of us have been in situations or far enough back into trails that hiking out would be problematic regardless of health or circumstances ---- since you have been riding for a long time - youve likely done this as well. Lots of times
Knock on wood...I haven't had to do this yet. Everything has been repairable or able to be limped along back to the trailhead.

Although not always the case...Was on a ride this past fall and 3 miles into the ride my friends rear derailleur jumped into the spokes...both derailleur and chain were trashed and not able to be fixed on the trail. He had to walk back to the trailhead. If this would have happened on an e-bike 8 miles back on the trail and his knees were shot...might not have been fun.

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Old 03-03-21, 09:44 AM
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Hahhah..
Don't do this because a bad thing might happen to you.
Has that bad thing happened to you?
No. But don't do this because a bad thing might happen to you.

e-mtbs are pretty common at our local trail system. They are just like regular mtbs and push the same. Much ado about nothing.
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Old 03-03-21, 01:10 PM
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"But it's FUUUUUN!!!!" is not a metric by which access should be assessed.

Yes, e-bikes are fun. Dirt bikes have always been fun.

Last edited by Kapusta; 03-03-21 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 03-03-21, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Hahhah..
Don't do this because a bad thing might happen to you.
Has that bad thing happened to you?
No. But don't do this because a bad thing might happen to you.

e-mtbs are pretty common at our local trail system. They are just like regular mtbs and push the same. Much ado about nothing.
Well if one is riding e-bikes because of some physical limitation, it is something that should be considered.
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Old 03-03-21, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DomoNishiki View Post
Not looking to start anything but let me play the devil advocate.
So old people who need an assist can't be on your bike trails with an e-bike? You know the ones that paved and paid for those paths you are climbing?
My knees are shot out but I still love riding bikes and a little assist won't hurt. But I don't have one anyways.
Again NOT trying to start anything.
Cheers.
I'm all for some sort of handicapped tag for people who "need" assist.

But expanding access to the disabled is not at all what the burgeoning e-bike market is about. Of the ten or so people I now know who ride e-bikes, not a single one is not capable of pedaling a normal bike.
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Old 03-03-21, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DomoNishiki View Post
Not looking to start anything but let me play the devil advocate.
So old people who need an assist can't be on your bike trails with an e-bike? You know the ones that paved and paid for those paths you are climbing?
.
What paved MTB trails are you riding?

Most MTB trails I ride are maintained by volunteers. When I start to see e-bikers showing of for trailwork days, I'll be more open to this argument.
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Old 03-03-21, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
But expanding access to the disabled is not at all what the burgeoning e-bike market is about. Of the ten or so people I now know who ride e-bikes, not a single one is not capable of pedaling a normal bike.
Yup. I'm seeing the same thing.
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