Dogs unleashed
10-12-21, 07:49 AM
#26
Senior Member
As I mentioned earlier...A responsible owner isn't going to take their dog on the trail if the possibility exists that it will be aggressive with people.
Last edited by prj71; 10-12-21 at 10:58 AM.
10-12-21, 08:23 AM
#27
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I’m getting so tired of being told that I need to chill and take the onus off of the pet owner, the parent, the e-bike rider, etc., the one person who should have complete control over the introduced element!
Everybody is a responsible rider, pet owner, parent, etc., until they aren’t!
I watched a responsible adult on roller blades, helmet, knee pads, gloves with nice wrist, palm pucks, get taken out by an dog that was clearly not completely under the owner lady’s control! She actually had two matching dogs…she was just able to reel the dogs in before Cujo One and Two went in for the kill…
She insisted that her dogs had “never done that before!”
Well. They didn’t…till they did!
It’s curious…the dogs didn’t take responsibility for their actions…
Everybody is a responsible rider, pet owner, parent, etc., until they aren’t!
I watched a responsible adult on roller blades, helmet, knee pads, gloves with nice wrist, palm pucks, get taken out by an dog that was clearly not completely under the owner lady’s control! She actually had two matching dogs…she was just able to reel the dogs in before Cujo One and Two went in for the kill…
She insisted that her dogs had “never done that before!”
Well. They didn’t…till they did!
It’s curious…the dogs didn’t take responsibility for their actions…
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10-12-21, 08:24 AM
#28
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As I said before. Laws only become a necessary tool when people no longer govern themselves. All of my comments have been in regards to governing oneself.
I can see how that is confusing to people who need laws to regulate behavior.
10-12-21, 08:34 AM
#29
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I’m getting so tired of being told that I need to chill and take the onus off of the pet owner, the parent, the e-bike rider, etc., the one person who should have complete control over the introduced element!
Everybody is a responsible rider, pet owner, parent, etc., until they aren’t!
I watched a responsible adult on roller blades, helmet, knee pads, gloves with nice wrist, palm pucks, get taken out by an dog that was clearly not completely under the owner lady’s control! She actually had two matching dogs…she was just able to reel the dogs in before Cujo One and Two went in for the kill…
She insisted that her dogs had “never done that before!”
Well. They didn’t…till they did!
It’s curious…the dogs didn’t take responsibility for their actions…
Everybody is a responsible rider, pet owner, parent, etc., until they aren’t!
I watched a responsible adult on roller blades, helmet, knee pads, gloves with nice wrist, palm pucks, get taken out by an dog that was clearly not completely under the owner lady’s control! She actually had two matching dogs…she was just able to reel the dogs in before Cujo One and Two went in for the kill…
She insisted that her dogs had “never done that before!”
Well. They didn’t…till they did!
It’s curious…the dogs didn’t take responsibility for their actions…
If not, and it was say, a MUP in a populated area, you are just as likely to get taken out by a five year old learning to ride their bike on a MUP who turns left when they shouldn't, or a jogger with their ear buds in, or entitled walkers who think they should take over the whole width of the MUP in order to walk side by side. I have already said that dogs in populated areas should be on leash though, in case that point was missed. That would be the responsible thing. On mountain bike trails however you are far more likely to get taken out by novice riders who don't know trail etiquette and stop around blind corners, enter trails without checking etc... Not by well behaved trail dogs.
But more directly to the point: the person had their dog on a leash, apparently in compliance with the law. They were doing what was legally required. This is a pretty good example where personal responsibility works better than law. If she had been personally responsible that probably wouldn't have happened. In adult dogs that behavior likely wasn't for the first time and she would have though of that potentiality. Instead, she put the dogs on leash as was legally required and gave no more thought to her responsibility.
Now you have to make another law.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 10-12-21 at 08:53 AM.
10-12-21, 08:51 AM
#30
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Check out the lists of dogs that are not allowed at camp grounds, certain communities, etc…not the dog’s fault!
The “animal” looks up to the, “pack leader”, ostensibly, “the owner”, or, the, “lead, follow, or get out of the way”, entity…to see what is going to happen…their responsibility is to, “the pack…”
My first thought when I see one person walking a brace of, “A personality”, dogs or what we used to call, “Mutts”, is there should be one person in control for every dog…
“Pack mentality”, happens…in animals and in humans…
Whew…
The “animal” looks up to the, “pack leader”, ostensibly, “the owner”, or, the, “lead, follow, or get out of the way”, entity…to see what is going to happen…their responsibility is to, “the pack…”
My first thought when I see one person walking a brace of, “A personality”, dogs or what we used to call, “Mutts”, is there should be one person in control for every dog…
“Pack mentality”, happens…in animals and in humans…
Whew…
10-12-21, 09:11 AM
#31
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Yup! I have watched parents, blankly, watch, the aforementioned child, swim up stream, forty feet away from the responsible adult, who then gets aggressive when you yell to them, at them to watch their child!
I used to have to contend with dangerous, “My child and I are skiing here”, behavior when skiing, too! Parents are actually running defense 50 to 100 feet behind their, “first time ever on skis”, child on the, “Double Black Diamond+++” trail!
I cannot adequately describe that behavior! Some of you have been there, I’m sure. You really had to have been there!
I used to have to contend with dangerous, “My child and I are skiing here”, behavior when skiing, too! Parents are actually running defense 50 to 100 feet behind their, “first time ever on skis”, child on the, “Double Black Diamond+++” trail!
I cannot adequately describe that behavior! Some of you have been there, I’m sure. You really had to have been there!
Last edited by billnuke1; 10-12-21 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Words…punctuation, etc…
10-12-21, 11:03 AM
#33
Senior Member
...you are just as likely to get taken out by a five year old learning to ride their bike on a MUP who turns left when they shouldn't, or a jogger with their ear buds in, or entitled walkers who think they should take over the whole width of the MUP in order to walk side by side.
10-12-21, 11:11 AM
#34
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!
Was this person roller blading on a mountain bike trail? Pretty sure that's what we are talking about.
If not, and it was say, a MUP in a populated area, you are just as likely to get taken out by a five year old learning to ride their bike on a MUP who turns left when they shouldn't, or a jogger with their ear buds in, or entitled walkers who think they should take over the whole width of the MUP in order to walk side by side. I have already said that dogs in populated areas should be on leash though, in case that point was missed. That would be the responsible thing. On mountain bike trails however you are far more likely to get taken out by novice riders who don't know trail etiquette and stop around blind corners, enter trails without checking etc... Not by well behaved trail dogs.
But more directly to the point: the person had their dog on a leash, apparently in compliance with the law. They were doing what was legally required. This is a pretty good example where personal responsibility works better than law. If she had been personally responsible that probably wouldn't have happened. In adult dogs that behavior likely wasn't for the first time and she would have though of that potentiality. Instead, she put the dogs on leash as was legally required and gave no more thought to her responsibility.
Now you have to make another law.
If not, and it was say, a MUP in a populated area, you are just as likely to get taken out by a five year old learning to ride their bike on a MUP who turns left when they shouldn't, or a jogger with their ear buds in, or entitled walkers who think they should take over the whole width of the MUP in order to walk side by side. I have already said that dogs in populated areas should be on leash though, in case that point was missed. That would be the responsible thing. On mountain bike trails however you are far more likely to get taken out by novice riders who don't know trail etiquette and stop around blind corners, enter trails without checking etc... Not by well behaved trail dogs.
But more directly to the point: the person had their dog on a leash, apparently in compliance with the law. They were doing what was legally required. This is a pretty good example where personal responsibility works better than law. If she had been personally responsible that probably wouldn't have happened. In adult dogs that behavior likely wasn't for the first time and she would have though of that potentiality. Instead, she put the dogs on leash as was legally required and gave no more thought to her responsibility.
Now you have to make another law.
10-13-21, 07:23 AM
#36
Senior Member
Guys,
The OP hasn't been back on this forum since 10/1/21. I don't think he liked the answers.
The OP hasn't been back on this forum since 10/1/21. I don't think he liked the answers.
10-13-21, 07:45 AM
#37
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If someone is afraid of my goofy yellow dog, that's a conversation to have with a therapist, not me or my dog or the by-law officers. OP sounds like he is humoring his precious little urchin because it positions him as the big protector, while getting the young girl some help would actually empower her in the future.
10-29-21, 10:20 PM
#38
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Interesting topic. I have had dogs chase me and at one point had to dismount and swing my bike back and forth to fend off two large aggressive dogs until the vapid owner came over to get his pests. The problem comes from people who fantasize that their dogs will be great on the trail, when they have no idea how their untrained pets will react to an old dude booking fast on the trail. The dogs misbehave and then we have an "issue". Most of the dogs and owners I encounter are great. But once in a while, a clueless dog owner who does not or cannot control their animal, allows a problem to occur. I've scolded people in these situations. I also carry a knife strapped to my bike in case I need it. Never had to use it in all the years I've carried it, but it's good to have it.
COVID has caused some people to venture out in the trails with their backyard only dogs and some of these dogs (and owners) have no idea how to behave on the trail.
Regarding your daughter's comfort level, never put up with some person telling you, "Oh he's freindly". Tell them to "keep your animal to yourself" and on a leash.
COVID has caused some people to venture out in the trails with their backyard only dogs and some of these dogs (and owners) have no idea how to behave on the trail.
Regarding your daughter's comfort level, never put up with some person telling you, "Oh he's freindly". Tell them to "keep your animal to yourself" and on a leash.
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10-30-21, 04:20 PM
#39
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As I have been riding for over 25 years now, it seems that my encounters with unleashed dogs on the trails has increased dramatically. Maybe it is because I ride a lot with my 5 year old daughter and she is petrified of dogs after being chase by one while on her bike. Anyone else having this issue? Any thoughts on how to combat it? Thanks
Last edited by tendency; 10-30-21 at 04:52 PM.
10-30-21, 04:22 PM
#40
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If someone is afraid of my goofy yellow dog, that's a conversation to have with a therapist, not me or my dog or the by-law officers. OP sounds like he is humoring his precious little urchin because it positions him as the big protector, while getting the young girl some help would actually empower her in the future.
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11-02-21, 08:14 PM
#41
Full Member
Dogs on mtn. biking trails ruin my stoke.
Unpredictable, under-wheel, barking - just really bad form forcing other riders to have to deal with the safety of your mutt.
Cycling paths/trails are for bicycles.
Take your freaking dog to the dog park if it needs exercise.
Unpredictable, under-wheel, barking - just really bad form forcing other riders to have to deal with the safety of your mutt.
Cycling paths/trails are for bicycles.
Take your freaking dog to the dog park if it needs exercise.
11-21-21, 08:58 AM
#43
Banned.
Dog
My Dog is fine! You should watch out. We were fine before you rode into our space. You need a bell so I can ignore you with my headphones on. Wait, I’ll put a 25 foot leash on and walk on one side while my Dog is in the other side. Oh, isn’t he cute? Everybody should love my Dog like I do. That’s not my fresh steaming Dog poo on the trail….
All in a days ride.
All in a days ride.
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12-09-21, 08:15 PM
#44
Junior Member
Firstly, good on you for having your daughter out in the trails so young. While I agree with you that unleashed dogs on multiuse trails is annoying (sorry dog lovers) I would also suggest that you work on your daughter’s fear of dogs before it becomes an all out phobia. Also, is there a bicycles only trail you can take her on instead?
12-09-21, 10:22 PM
#45
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I would NOT use pepper spray in the OPs situation. I would never pepper spray a dog that is not actually themselves being aggressive or posing a threat. And simply running up to me does not equate to a threat. In the OPs case, the issue is not the dog, but rather a negligent owner and a child with an irrational fear, which pepper spraying the dog is only going to enforce.
And do not assume pepper spray does not harm a dog. Teaching a dog that cyclists are a threat can have unintended consequences. If you truly feel you are in danger, then yes, use it, but do not do so lightly.
And do not assume pepper spray does not harm a dog. Teaching a dog that cyclists are a threat can have unintended consequences. If you truly feel you are in danger, then yes, use it, but do not do so lightly.
Child is not being irrational, especially one so small/young.
Animals, even 'pets' can be unpredictable, in a case like this I would err on the cautious side.
pepper spray is acceptable as a deterent, if the dog gets close enough to get hit with it.
And, yes, give the owner fair warning and a chance to call the dog and get control.
If everyone acts appropriately, then no issues and only a few tense moments which quickly go away.
Make sure it's a BIG can, and keep it handy. Better to be reasonably prepared. And hope you never need it.
That's what Dads need to do.
Good on you for getting your child out!
Ride On
Yuri
12-10-21, 12:55 AM
#46
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Yep.
"My dog is harmless."
Personal exceptionalism at it's worst.
Trigger warning: Road rash content.
Poor dog. Probably dead AF due to it's negligent owners inability to follow simple rules.
"My dog is harmless."
Personal exceptionalism at it's worst.
Trigger warning: Road rash content.
Poor dog. Probably dead AF due to it's negligent owners inability to follow simple rules.
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I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
Car dependency is a tax.
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
Car dependency is a tax.
12-10-21, 06:23 AM
#47
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I love dogs (and all animals) but sorry, I disagree. Certainly not the dog's fault, but, owner needs to heed the request to get dog in hand.
Child is not being irrational, especially one so small/young.
Animals, even 'pets' can be unpredictable, in a case like this I would err on the cautious side.
pepper spray is acceptable as a deterent, if the dog gets close enough to get hit with it.
And, yes, give the owner fair warning and a chance to call the dog and get control.
If everyone acts appropriately, then no issues and only a few tense moments which quickly go away.
Make sure it's a BIG can, and keep it handy. Better to be reasonably prepared. And hope you never need it.
That's what Dads need to do.
Good on you for getting your child out!
Ride On
Yuri
Child is not being irrational, especially one so small/young.
Animals, even 'pets' can be unpredictable, in a case like this I would err on the cautious side.
pepper spray is acceptable as a deterent, if the dog gets close enough to get hit with it.
And, yes, give the owner fair warning and a chance to call the dog and get control.
If everyone acts appropriately, then no issues and only a few tense moments which quickly go away.
Make sure it's a BIG can, and keep it handy. Better to be reasonably prepared. And hope you never need it.
That's what Dads need to do.
Good on you for getting your child out!
Ride On
Yuri
Last edited by Kapusta; 12-10-21 at 06:30 AM.
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12-10-21, 08:33 AM
#48
Junior Member
I agree that the "pepper spray" comment by the OP was excessive but how rational do you expect his 5 year old daughter to be? He's simply trying to protect her.
12-10-21, 08:44 AM
#49
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as far as irrational fear thing goes if the OP's little kid is scared its scared. Get over it really isnt a option. And since you cant really change behavior of other people if I was in his shoes I would just stop and make sure the dog owner got their dog. Its called command and control its not real hard to master.
12-10-21, 11:39 AM
#50
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All of you who are some how defending the owner/dog combo who are not reacting properly to other users on a trail - is one of Humanities' greatest flaws - rationalization.
The dog is being 'dog'.
Now the nature of the dog is likely unknown to the other users (dad/child) , and the vast majority of small children will initially be very frightened of any animal coming at them, especially fast moving ones and ones almost or as large as they are. Not irrational behaviour, completely natural and expected of children.
Dog 'Owner' should not even need to be asked. They should respond 'AUTOMATICALLY' and provide some restraint of the dog. No Questions.
Anything else is at the least being inconsiderate, further is 'over-entitlement' and worst is downright 'aggressive'.
I've had a lot of dogs in the family. And always tried to keep encounters with others on the friendly side. All the dogs were large, and some goofy and rambunctious.
I'm good with 'off-leash' in common open spaces, but always ready to intervene if a situation happened. A few times interjecting myself between my dog and the other party.
Always trying to end the meeting in a friendly manner. Sometimes they just moved on cautiously, and I'm OK with that - I did my responsibility properly.
Pepper Spray (not Bear Spray) has a very limited range... I'm ok with that.
You don;t have to do a direct hit. Dogs will back off initially; even if you just use a water bottle spray (which I've had to do a few times, riding...)
But Pepper Spray will work if the dog isn;t playing nice...
Dog may even develop an irrational fear of any spray can pointed at them, after an encounter with Pepper Spray... LOL!
Ride On
Yuri
Opinion is all well and good, until the rubber meets the road... then you do what it takes to not lowside or highside...
