shane45

Look - my XTR logos are buried under mud and dirt most of the time, so don't give me that crap about it being jewellery. I'm the only one that knows it's there, for the most part. I don't put it there to be admired. I don't put it there to be cool or fashionable. I don't put it there because I'm sponsored.

I put it there because:

a) I can afford it.
b) It makes me faster.
c) It makes me smoother.
d) I have no reliability issues at all with it - IT WORKS.
e) I do not find XT front derailleurs anywhere near the quality and functionality of XTR. The XT cage design sucks (FOR ME.)
f) I can feel a difference between XT and XTR with regards to smoothness of shifts.
g) It's my bike and it feels right FOR ME.

Why don't you start ragging on people that prefer a different level of fork quality - or frame type - or paint color? Why? Because it's all relative and highly subjective. What works for me, may not work for you. Don't criticize my bikes however, especially since you've never rode them.

Matt Gaunt

YES!


In all fairness, I didn't say ALL those with DA or XTR are unknowledgable. I was just making the observation that some people who are unknowledgable do buy the top end products without just cause.

It's nothing to do with me how anyone spends their money - I'd obviously never think it was - I just think that it's not worth the extra 75% cost for a marginal performance benefit.

Oh, and to the chap who said that he prefers his components "handmade" with the extra-quality finish, I really hate to pee on his parade but WAKE UP!!! DA and XTR isn't handmade! It's made to the exact specs of XT and Ultegra! IT EVEN SAYS SO IN ALL THE SHIMANO LITERATURE!

I'd love XTR and DA, I really would. But only because it's got the badge on it, not because of performance benefits. I just hate the way it's priced to be elitist when the technology clearly costs so much less. And that doesn't mean I'd love my rides any more with that componentry on them. It's not possible.

cryptid01

Some of you folks are so judgemental, I swear.

Yeah, I have some XTR stuff...in fact, some of it dates back to 1997 and still functions just fine, thank you.

The difference is that I really don't give a rat's ass if someone is riding XT (or Deore, or a rigid fork, or a recumbent, whatever) as long as they're enjoying it.

I get my gear at dealer cost, does that make me less of an idiot than those who buy XT at retail?

bobflyer

heres the deal.. if someone has extra money.. then whats wrong with XTR, if your looking for something thats budget yet good.. then XT is the best option.. just because someone is on XTR does not make him a wannbe.. he just wants the best money can buy.. someone on XT is someone who wants value for money.. but someone on XTR has the best money can buy.. value for money and best are 2 different things..

Brian

I'll just point out that you don't "Need" XTR to be a better rider, and having it certainly won't make you a better rider.

What really irks me is that some guys think everyone should have XTR. More than one girl from the club I used to ride with (NRMB) would be advised by co-workers and shop employees that they needed to look only at XTR equipped bikes. At least the women were smart enough to figure out that there's more to a bike than just the group. One of the girls (a spin class junkie, apparently) rode a flourescent green, 1980's Diamond Back. Full rigid, ancient LX thumbies, cantilever brakes with pads hard as a rock. Valerie, a lovely UCLA nurse, would out-climb nearly everyone, and scream all the way down the hills. Rather humbling.

Curtis_Elwood

Well, of course not. Just like you don't need LX over Deore to be a better rider. It's not about the bike. I didn't see anyone on this thread claiming that. Put any good biker on a rigid bike with old, but functional equipment and they will smoke a poser on XTR any day. But at the end of the day when that expert wants to go back and ride his/her XTR equipped bike, so be it. Not everyone that has XTR is a poser. Probably not even half. Are "posers" not found with all groups of drive train? Or, are they no longer posers when the have a less expensive group?

jz19

That is simply stupid. Anyone can buy whatever pleases them for sure but unless you are a pro and are making a living out of riding a bike you don't "need" any particular level of group. If riding XT makes you ride more, lover your bike more, or whatever, fine, more power to you.

Personally I have XT because I got the whole group cheap when I was building my bike but feel that even XT is more than what I actually needed. I have not interest whatsoever to go beyond XT.

IMO LX is more than enough (at least for my level of skill) and is probably the best value “for me”. What LX lacks is the glamour of XT/XTR but for most amateurs it is clearly enough. Heck I will go farther and say that Deore is all someone like me needs. Deore is as far as I go down the line though.

Matt Gaunt

I think the original point of the thread has been overwhelmed by a number of, frankly, irrelevant sub-points.

I would like to apologise to Dirtjumper66 for corporately hijacking the thread and turning it into some sort of slanging match between XT- and XTR-users.

The thread is seriously mis-guided now, and I would like to say that I never meant to offend any XTR-user, any XT-user or even any LX- or Deore- or Acera-user. My original point was that I use XT because it works very very well. I don't need anything better than it, and I don't think XTR represents enough of a performance advantage to warrant paying the extra for it.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is not wrong. I didn't mean it to sound like that at all.

So can we all please concentrate on our (seperate!) opinions of XT and XTR?

Cheers fellas.

MattP.

I run all XT except LX shifters and I love the setup. XT is SO much better than Deore, its amazing. If I were to build a MTB i would run XT hands down.

the wonginator

i still run acera front and rear, but i've just recently upgraded my altus shifters/levers to alivio shifters and deore LX levers (temporarily until i get my speed dial ti's), and they're good enough for me. the shifts are precise, no ghost shifts yet, they're fine for the riding i do... when my derailleurs finally do break, i'll probably upgrade to used deore just for cheap and functionality... to me, they shift fine, so i'm happy. i don't need XT or XTR, i use what works well.

in other words, i'm a poor bastard and you should all pitch in money to buy me a full XT group you rich *******s

Brian

Here's a dollar, now shut up. Just kidding. There are so many good deals on ebay for new and used gear, you should be able to upgrade pretty easily. If you sock away a few bucks, and then just search 2 or 3 days a week, the opportunity will present itself. Take-offs from new bikes will be your best friend.

Dannihilator

Do the right thing. Go singlespeed.

the wonginator

i will next summer.

when i get a bmx.

Dannihilator

Your riding skills will thank you in a year if you go singlespeed now.

the wonginator

dude i know how to ride singlespeed. hell on my bike i only use 3 speeds really. 2-3, 2-5, 2-7.

normally 2-5 anyways (i dont shift very often) so i'm just about singlespeeding anyways.

Brian

Ok, XT vs XTR. I've never like the M960/965 levers, and I never will. The M952 levers look like the M750 levers, and for the 158g weight saving, you're paying about an 80% premium. At the dealer level, that works out to 50 cents a gram.

Functionally, there's more to the debate than just the levers. Cable routing, quality, adjustment, and cleanliness all play a big role in shifting performance. All shifters require the connection from the lever to the derailleur to be in good working order, otherwise you've just wasted a wad of cash.

Without getting into the rapid rise debate, I'll point out that for years, the XTR rear derailleur has been the gold standard for road and MTB tandems. It stands up well to the power of 2 people, and shifts smoothly on a bike where the standard rear derailleur cable is 3000mm long, instead of the usual 1700mm. Front derailleurs have such a simple job, there's no reason to take one over the other. New bikes even spec the FD one step lower than the RD, simply because it saves a few bucks, without affecting performance.

On to the other bits now. Cranks are purely a matter of personal choice. Shimano copped some bad press for cranks that were hard to service, or had bad seals. It's my opinion that cranks are one of the parts you should rarely have to think about, once they're installed. As far as brakes, it's not usually XT vs XTR. I'm sure the choice is more often between Shimano and every other brand, so I won't offer opinion there.

p.s. Kona, the only bike I ever raced was a single speed.

dirtjumper66

The whole point of this topic was to let people figure out of XT or XTR was right for them and if it was really worth it to pay the extra money for the XTR my opologies to anyone that was offended or upset about the topic.

Dannihilator

No need to appologize.

justsomeguy

So says the "mountain biker" who recently "discovered" being able to sit while climbing.

This forum is a laugh a minute.

shane45

Chill dude. I've been mountain biking for years, and I still "discover" new things / techniques just about every time I ride.

Glad you're perfect and we make you laugh, however. What's your NORBA ranking, by the way?

Dannihilator

I've known that I have been able to sit while climbing, I have climbed while seated when the bike was geared. I'm more known for my DH abilities than I will ever be climbing, I'm enjoying climbs now, but I'm still slow on them, I've always been slow on the climbs and always will be slow on the climbs. I've accepted that, not all mountain bikers are the same.

d_monie1

Absolutly right! The funny thing with MTBing as opposed to road riding is that your MTB rig gets crashed all the time. Why anyone who doesnt race would put XTR on a bike that gets crashed all the time is a mystery to me. They both, (xt/xtr) for MTBing and for the road (Ultegra/ DA) are functionally equivilent (and the weight difference is miniscule). I personally have XT on my mtb and Ultegra on my roadie. I would upgrade my roadie to DA over Ultegra if I had money to just throw away but for aesthetic reasons only. I like Ultegra but the DA stuff is so pretty, and there is nothing like a pretty road bike. Its like looking at a pretty woman.

ScareyH22A

Phew! What a relief. I feel good about having XT stuff on my 1st new bike =)

Rocket Dawg

I've been hitting it hard for over 20 years and will be the first to admit I'm still learning.

BoSoxYacht

single-speed bikes still use brakes ,bottom brackets and cranks .