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Full suspension bike for competetive XC vs Hardtail..

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Full suspension bike for competetive XC vs Hardtail..

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Old 06-07-06, 11:50 AM
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trelek
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Full suspension bike for competetive XC vs Hardtail..

And which one...
I love XC, not just riding, but the competing. I take part in marathons from 10 to 100miles of length.
At present I own a gary Fisher Tassajara. It's quite heavy and so on, but after all i like it
But have collected some money to buy something better.
And I don't know what it should be. I suppose, that hardtails are better for short distances, while full sus are better for longer dystances. Anyway I can have only one bike at a time due to the lack of space at home, so I need to decide between one or the other. What is most important for me is the results, so i guess the efficiency of the bike + its weight.
I thought that it would be best if i bought a full sus with lockout, which is reliably light. Or maybe i shouldn't buy the full, but a carbon frame hardtail.
Anyway the bikes I was considering from fulls are Cannondale Scalpel and Rush 2000, Specialized Epic, Scott Genius RC 20 and gary Fisher Procaliber. From hardtails I was thinking about gary Fisher Ziggurat, Scott Scale 20/10, Specialized S-works HT carbon disc, Cannondale F1000.
Which bike would yiu buy if you were in my place? And don't forget, I want these bikes to be fast...
Ps. if there is something wrong with my english please don't make fun of me, as i come from a different country. I hope you understand that.
Anyway, thanks for the replies in advance.
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Old 06-07-06, 12:15 PM
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Not a Trek person huh lol.
I'm not sure, but I would choose the Epic.
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Old 06-07-06, 12:26 PM
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I can't say which bike you shud buy because I do not have experience of enough bikes - I know I like mine, but I couldn't tell you if they are better than many others on offer.

However, I can tell you my findings so far on HT v's FS as I have now done normal XC to full enduro on both.
I have found on the issue of full suss v's HT the terrain of the course determines what is best suited rather than distance as you suggest - I have found the full suss is faster (although heavier) on the technical, rooty XC courses because the bike tracks the terrain and I can keep speed up - that type of terrain also doesn't sap up so much enegry with a FS, so I feel stronger. I think the FS also helps me because I am still improving my skills - a better rider can handle that terrain better with a HT.

The Enduro I did last weekend was far less technical than some of the XC courses I have done and the FS was not needed for that ride, the lighter HT would have probably been faster.
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Old 06-07-06, 12:34 PM
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Of your choices I would go with either the Scalpel or the Scott Genius RC 20. There is just something about Scott's that do it for me. Typically I am not a Cannondale fan but I have a lot of friends that are racing the scalpel and they really seem to like them. However, they typically only keep their bikes a season so durability is not a big concern. The epic may be a great bike, I just don't care for them. I tried one out for about a month and I just didn't care for it. I'm also not a Fisher fan. I have owned two of them (2001 Sugar 1 and a 2002 Sugar 2+). I'll never own another one.

These are just my opinions. They are not based on any facts, just personal preferences.
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Old 06-07-06, 12:41 PM
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you will just have to test ride them to know.. by the way, your english is better than most of the americans on here.
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Old 06-07-06, 01:22 PM
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Well, I can't test the bikes, because I live in Poland. They won't let me. They'll only let me sit on them in the store. Besides im my city?? i can only buy Giant, kelly's and author, and I don't like any of these companies... Apart from that i don't wan't to have a bike just like everyone else has. Everybody here has one of these and there are a few poeple who order bikes from different places, just like me I bought my fisher after asking a few people for opinions, and it proved to be a good choice compared with the bikes i see around me. I know, it's all ridiculus....but that's the reality here. I've been to the states and i know that you can test bikes just like we test cars in poland. Test rides, that's what it's called...lol That's why i thought you might have had some experience with these bikes and that yoiu know which one turns out to be the best in competitive XC.
And concerning durability, what actually happens to the cannondales??? Do they simply fall apart?? I can replace the casette or chain, but not the whole bike. I have been saving for this bike for three years. I can't just change it after one year. My gary fisher was quite chep compared to the bike i want to buy now, it's two years old and it works well. There's nothing wrong with it. I only have to replace the casette and chain from time to time.
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Old 06-07-06, 01:28 PM
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Most of the problems with cannondale's are the hardtail frames breaking.
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Old 06-07-06, 01:34 PM
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but the are on a lifetime guarantee...They are obliged to replace the frame if it brakes, right?
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Old 06-07-06, 02:37 PM
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I think Riles has the best point: the terrain determines which bike is best. I have both, and HT is faster on smooth, FS is faster on rough. There's a middle ground there somewhere - probably determined by rider skill level!
what kind of terrain are you on most of the time??
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Old 06-07-06, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by trelek
Ps. if there is something wrong with my english please don't make fun of me, as i come from a different country. I hope you understand that.
your english is very good. at least your trying unlike some of the spanish ppl coming here
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Old 06-07-06, 03:12 PM
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I am very aware of cannondales frame issues, however I have a '98 F2000 frame that has held up very well, but I admit it has not seen the miles it should have and I am not the kind of person that breaks bikes..

Cannondales higher end bikes are designed for competition, which means if you ride hard, plan on possibly replacing it sooner than later.

I traded in a '91 cannondale frame due to a crack at the seat clamp, and paid $350 (because it was an upgrade) for the F2000 frame, headshok and stem (retail was $850). I'm not sure what their warranty is now.
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Old 06-07-06, 03:24 PM
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It's really hard to say what kind of terrain it is. XC, haven't you tried it??
All these races are similar. A hell lot of hills, going down is extreamly bumpy, i'm always praying not to fall, the bumps make it hard to hold the handlebar, or the mud is so slippery that you don't really have any control of the bike. It's fun!DDDD Some hills are so steep that you gave to get off your bike to get to the top, but there are also flat parts. Anyway, it's definaetly not asphalt. Apart from that I can always swich the lockout.
Anyway, it's going to be hard to find a specialized here in poland. So are the cannondales really that bad??
I have always thought they are one of the best.....
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Old 06-07-06, 05:54 PM
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Cannondale's are very good bikes, however they are a bike that needs to be test ridden. Some people love them, some hate them. They do have a warranty for when / if they break. However, living where you do are you willing to go without a bike for a month or two while waiting for it to warranty.

For the XC comment, I race xc as well. I also have a hardtail and a full suspension. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages, it all depends on the course. If I were to only have one bike though it would definately be a full suspension.
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Old 06-07-06, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by trelek
but the are on a lifetime guarantee...They are obliged to replace the frame if it brakes, right?
Dunno if its still a problem but back in the late 90s, early 2000s a lot of shops droipped C-dale because returns were damn near impossible.
Also, returning a frame is still a PITA. It takes weeks to months to get the frame in.
After working in a bike shop in that period, i wouldn't buy a c-dale.
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Old 06-07-06, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by nm+
Dunno if its still a problem but back in the late 90s, early 2000s a lot of shops droipped C-dale because returns were damn near impossible.
Also, returning a frame is still a PITA. It takes weeks to months to get the frame in.
After working in a bike shop in that period, i wouldn't buy a c-dale.
I got my frame during that time, and it only took about 2 weeks. The rep looked at my 7 year old frame and didn't even want a receipt (good thing, i bought it used). It was real easy.
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Old 06-07-06, 09:16 PM
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Like everyone else said: it depends on terrain and skill level. Just remember, anything is possible on a hardtail, depending on your skill level. Me? I perfer a good hardtail to FS anyday.
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Old 06-08-06, 05:03 PM
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How about the K2 Apache? They have a distributor in Poland:

OUTDOOR SPORTS
165 Brzezie
3208 Zabierzow
(T) 48 12 285 3727

K2 tend to be light compared to other full suspension bikes and the rear suspension has a lockout, meaning you can have a "hardtail" when you want it.

Concerning Cannondale, they used to have lots of proprietary (ie, "only theirs") parts, meaning you needed to order parts directly from them. I don't know if that's still the case or not.
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Old 06-09-06, 01:10 AM
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Well as far as I know, winning world racers are using Specialized Epic and Giant Anthem, maybe there are more but I only heard those two
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Old 06-09-06, 02:01 AM
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Pfft, dont buy a bike because world racers win on them!

I dont see an issue with Cannondales. They are dam good bikes, there geometry is like no other and they all ride like no other. I've test ridden most of them and like LowCel said you either like them or you dont.
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Old 06-09-06, 06:17 AM
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yeah, low cel is right
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Old 06-09-06, 11:02 AM
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well thanks, ill try to persuade them to let me test the bike, but it's going to be hard.
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Old 06-10-06, 08:57 PM
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Get the Epic

I am only a Junior but know alot about bikes. I Seem to have alot of the same terain that you have in Poland, i live in Seattle WA. currently have a decked out sweet Giant XTC hardtail MTB and i love it. But i am ordering a new Specialized Epic on monday and building it up with some parts off my bike now. I have ridden some Epics and i really love them. I think you get a big gain with the FS. I do love HT and wish i could have both, but not enough $$$$$. The way the brain shock works is great and the Epic rides like a HT. If you can get an Epic then i would say do so. I am going to go from 25lbs to 27lbs with the switch but i think it is compleatly worth it. I have done alot of reasurch on this topic as well.

I was recantly talking to my Coach about it and he recomend FS and spicificly the Epic, but i have heard very good things about the K2 Appache 6.0. I know a guy who has one and he loves it.

I have had ver bad experiences with the Canondale bikes. This one girl who i know had a Canondale and went through 3 of there Lefty forks in one season. By the way she is an expert but she only weighs 130lbs.

I hope this helps, and your English is alot better than mine. Atleast my teachers say it is not all that good.

P.S. Everyone should go out and buy some Oh Boy O'berto Beef Jerky, it is the best.
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Old 06-12-06, 06:02 AM
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Haha, well I know a quite aged man who owns a canondale downhill bike, hes one strong old lad, he cycles on his road bike during the hot evening and uses his MTB to race downhill, hes a CRAZY old man XD
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