I'm not trying to profile or discriminate, I love and respect all kinds of biking. However, the distinction between "urban assault", bmx, skinnies, drops, or xc and dh, etc is lost on the average citizen. All they see are bikers (and skateboarders) potentially damaging public property and putting their kids at risk. I didn't even mention the liability issue (simply saying that you'd never hold them liable for any injury you sustain on your own behalf, while it's noble, doesn't really fly legally unless you've signed a waiver-they'll still worry about litigation).
My point in my first reply was more geared to the enforcement issue. Who is Jim311 to tell the police what to and what not to enforce and when it's appropriate to do so? We all have to live by the rules-they're largely for everyone's benfit. Challenging those laws, damaging property, bothering citizens is the kind of behavior that bodes poorly for everyone in the area who rides a bike-just like riding on private property or hiking/equestrian only trails. Nothing personal.

I guess that's about 6 cents worth now.

He did not know of the law nor did he say he argued with the cop. So how did he challenge the law.
He did not damage any property.
He was riding at night on a mostly deserted campus, so he was not bothering citizens.

Therfore all of your above points are moot.

Nothing personal.:beer:

1) Ignorance of the law (s) is no excuse-he "challenged" the law (I never said the cop) when he broke it.
2) He likely left some kind of mark-wouldn't you agree? (I've seen many tire marks, chips in concrete and paint scraped off of handrails-all of which someone has to fix, btw). And it really doesn't matter wether he did or not, if there are any blemishes, as a representitive of that kind of riding, he bears a certain responsibility-at least in public perception (which will be the eventual death nell for that activity) .
3) College students are citizens too, as far as I know, and many citizens are unhappy with bikes and boards crashing around them and making noise late at night while walking around campus or trying to study or sleep.

You hungry? Cuz that sure tasted good...

Urban laws are unfair. I had much more to say than this but quite simply I have never agreed with the illegallity of urban riding and the stereotype this perpetuates on all forms of urban. Municipalities have always had the urban rider problem and have continued to use tickets as a way to slow it down which has only driven the scene further underground. The skate parks for the most part only allow skaters and bmxers and do not facilitate mtbs let alone the NUMBER of urban riders there are. I could go on for days abut how this bias towards urban riding of any kind drives me nuts but I won't as I need to ride. If the communities with these problems would pull their heads out of their asses and make suitable parks there would be much less of a problem. As of yet I have only seen one or two communities with suitable parks (either in door or outdoor) for the many types of riding and the number of riders currently 'jibbing' (haha).

And sometimes laws need to be broken in order to get points across. I will simply leave it at that as I am sure Jim didn't break the law intentionally but civil disobedience in order to win a point is worthy at times. Urban is here to stay the sooner communities realize it the sooner everyone can be happy happy joy joy. :)

at the school i went to (oregon state university), ticketing bikers without lights was their favorite thing to do, along with generally harassing anyone that looked between 18~27 years old.

the whole department there seemed to have their nightsticks up their a$$es. too bad so many people feel the need to be this way.

Man I would be broke if those laws were enforced here. I have owned one light in my life and NEVER leave reflectors on my bike. I definately don't have a rear light and my pedals don't even have a spot for reflectors...I wonder if there is a law stating how wide your tires can be or maybe how much suspension is allowed on the street. You know like the way you can't ride dirtbikes on the road (at least here). :)

Well, they're there for a reason. Its unfortunate that people have to see them as 'the bad guys.' There aren't rules regarding having a light on your bike at night for nothing. Its always easy for us to say, "The cop must have been bored because he gave me a speeding ticket when there are people passing in the double-yellows just down the road." Thats not really fair. I think its our responsibility to trust their judgement. Like I said, they're not there to torment us.

As for this case in specific... $51 is a lot of money. Fortunately you were given the option to go to some (probably) useless class and will have 2 hours less to spend... doing whatever. It certainly beats paying $51. I can sympathize. I recently got pulled over because my windows were tinted too dark. And thats strait from the dealer. In the end I thought it better to just take my punishment and get over it.

Let's hear it. WHY are they unfair?

how is the cop suposed to know that they aren't doing damage?
one day he sees a bunch of kids on bikes hopping up on the ledges and doing damage. the next day he sees a couple of kids riding on the ledges.

most people don't know the difference, they just think "one bike did this, they all must do this..."

and if you don't like that one work you kept mentioning then why the hel| did you use it?

*/ you don't have to answer.....

#1&#2 #2 are pretty common. #3 can be gotten around by just having them availiable. Generally shops around here don't waste their time slapping them on the higher -end MTB's they KNOW are going off-road. As for the pedal bit: that's why the bikes equiped with clipless pedals have those snap in platforms with reflectors legal by technicality.

He didn't say anything about any reflectors. I guess those aren't required.

Exactly he broke the law, he is going to go to the class and get lights. So how is any of his actions challenging the law??


Some shoes leave more marks on steps and ledges than tires. Should shoe wearers refrain from walking on steps and ledges?

How are tires going to chip concrete? Handrails were not involved so I will skip that comment. Tire marks are the only blemish representitive of the riding he was doing.
He only bears responsibility for his actions, not the actions of others.


There were not boards involved. Since when do rubber tires crash around?

Nope, just had some Blackened Chicken Alfredo, but thanks for asking.:beer:

You can't let the actions of a few ruin it for everyone else. Just because some skate boarders, BMX kids, etc are tearing up the place doesn't mean that I have no respect for other people's property. My tax and tuition money goes to support those very same steps. I don't want to see my tuition go any higher than it already is!!

i understand where you're coming from, but if you went to oregon state you'd understand that they ARE there to torment us.

case in point: i was at a friend's house with about 5 or 6 other friends, having a nice dinner and a few drinks on the porch. all of us were over 21 at the time, and it was by no means a party. all of a sudden one of the cops whips onto their LAWN, gets out of his car, and starts yelling at us that we all need to leave the "party", or he'll start giving us tickets for "disturbing the peace"!!!!! we were sitting there on the porch talking!!! but because we had glasses of wine in our hands, he assumed we must be up to no good.

well, i didn't want to deal with him, so i put the cork back on my bottle of wine i brought, and started walking home (about 3 blocks away.) half way home, there he is pulling up behind me with his lights flashing. he gets out of his car again, and tells me i have an open container, and writes me a $150 ticket.

this guy was definitely out to harrass and torment anyone younger than 30. and he was the 'bad guy'. and he is a typical example of the cop mentality in corvallis, and sooo many other campuses around the country.

i can understand giving a ticket for riding without a light at night. it helps stop unnecessary accidents. but going out of your way to give a ticket to someone just because they're playing around on their bikes in a well lit area is nonsense.

I realize he was just doing his job, but damn. Did he really HAVE to fine me? I mean.. seriously. Were we such hardened-looking thugs that he felt the need to give me a fine? He could have just given us a warning. I can't get away with a damn thing in this town reguardless of how minor it is. It seems like just being 20 years old is reason enough for the police to harass you. I'm not a bad guy, or a criminal. I was just having a good time. I wasn't acting stupid or causing trouble.. just riding my bike. I didn't run, act like an *******, or any such nonsense. I know for a fact there were kids directly across the street committing much more serious crimes than myself. But this guy had to be billy badass and write me a ticket? Waste 2 hours of my time? For what? We'd never been warned before, it wasn't like we were committing these infractions after being warned before. In fact I probably would have bought lights if I had been warned before. I don't think it's really so much to ask to just have been giving a verbal warning.

I think most Police are very unfamiliar with the differance between "urban assault" and what a lot of the BMX crews do. Its a shame but to the common man I think that both "styles" look very similiar. Granted you may not be doing grinds on cement and metal objects, but do you think most people know the difference?
Also a choice of a fine or class is fairly light. A lot of places would have impounded your bike.

next time run......

Enh, I actually thought about running. I almost certainly could have gotten away with it. But I figured a ticket for not having lights was better than getting thrown in jail.

I would have ran ... whats he gonna do? Its not like a car where he can call in your plates

you never watched COPS? they can catch you and you WILL get arrested if they do.

but on a campus you often have a decent chance of getting away. just make sure your freinds know what's up so you don't leave them standing there.

I'm not willing to get thrown in jail over something like that. I'm not a criminal.. just a guy who likes to ride his bike :)

My friends and I were doing some urban assault at the UW campus when we came upon some campus police. At first we thought we were going to get in trouble for sure but then they stopped us and asked us if we could "ride that wall over there". We of course happily obliged.

I think the trick was to not look like we were doing anything harmful. We were out in the middle of the day with full protective gear, away from people and shrubbery or anything else we could damage and spotting each other. It just looked like we were having good clean fun.