Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Mountain Biking
Reload this Page >

Hydraulic Disc Brakes vs. Mechanical Disc??

Notices
Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

Hydraulic Disc Brakes vs. Mechanical Disc??

Old 06-08-07, 04:35 AM
  #126  
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by fjyang
I guess we just have difference in opinion, right? you can't accept that? By calling people idiocy is not personal attack? What would you do when people call you idot?....they have to reply in kind. I guess this show must go on.
Dood, I've never been a big fan of Pete's and I'm not here to cover his back either. But what he's saying is FACT, sustainable by objective data. You seem to be be expressing OPINION or BELIEF which is supported by subjective response or false information.

We can all learn something new. Maybe you should take it as such?


If you'll excuse me I'll go back to eating my popcorn & nachos.
__________________
Stacey is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 05:29 AM
  #127  
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Between the mountains and the lake.
Posts: 16,681

Bikes: 8 bikes - one for each day of the week!

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Looking at the thread, I see that Pete has actually gone pretty easy.
Brian is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 05:45 AM
  #128  
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Agreed.
__________________
Stacey is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 08:04 AM
  #129  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fjyang
I've been riding motorcycles since I was 16, longer than I've been driving and much longer than mountain biking....so just because I come back to riding bicycle for health reason after 15 years, I'll have no clue on hydraulic brakes? I have change pads, bleeding brake lines and replace master cyclinders on cars and motorcycles perhaps when you still on diapers. The basic concept of hydraulic brake have not chagne since your born so you're no enlighting us with any new stuff here.

...
People use toilets all there life without having a clue about how they work. Experience is helpful but it does not necessarily equate to understanding.

Everyone is allowed their own opinion. You are not allowed your own facts. You substitute your "experience" for basic laws of physics and claim these are facts ... they are not.

You cannot use hydraulics (non-boosted) to amplify force indefinitely and still have the system work. If you amplify the force in your hand by a factor of 30, you reduce travel by a factor of 30. At some point you will have so little travel that you would have to have the rotors in contact with the pads in order for the system to engage. Mechanicals have already go this whipped and if you don't believe me, try some cantilever levers with mechanical disc brakes. To assert that you can amplify the force indefinitely without affecting travel means that you are getting power from an external source. You must identify that source or admit that your theory breaks the 2nd law of thermodynamics (which is a contradiction).

A larger rotor vs a smaller rotor for the same force applied to identical pads as the rotor DOES move over the caliper faster and this generates heat. Thats energy and it has to come from somewhere. It comes from kinetic energy of the bicycle. To assert otherwise you need to cite where that energy is coming from or admit you're breaking the 2nd law of thermodynamics (which is a contradiction).

fjyang, you're theory does not stand up to scrutiny. It's probably best to go read up on what we are telling you and then drop it.

Last edited by willtsmith_nwi; 06-08-07 at 08:24 AM.
willtsmith_nwi is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 10:15 AM
  #130  
mmm babaghanouj.
 
rasheed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: toronto, canada.
Posts: 848

Bikes: 2003 norco fluid 3.0, 2016 Intense Tracer 275C Expert

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


man, i've been away too long. i've forgotten how fun this forum can be to read.
rasheed is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 10:36 AM
  #131  
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Welcome back. Here, have some popcorn.
__________________
Stacey is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 12:41 PM
  #132  
If its Retro its "IN"
 
fjyang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
[QUOTE=Pete Fagerlin]

I'm "outa control" because you don't know what you're talking (writing) about? Ok, I'm outa control man!

QUOTE]

Guess you have not taken the advice.....
fjyang is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 01:02 PM
  #133  
If its Retro its "IN"
 
fjyang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
What advice was that?

Have you done any homework yet?
Chill
fjyang is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 02:23 PM
  #134  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I thought this thread was about the differences between hydraulic and mechanical discs... Not squabbling... Just sayin'. You have to let some things go.
k_freese is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 02:34 PM
  #135  
If its Retro its "IN"
 
fjyang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
You are assuming that I am upset, or not chill. You are mistaken once again.

On the contrary, I am very chill. It's hard not to be chill when I'm laughing so hard.

Have you done any homework yet?
keep it coming
fjyang is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 03:22 PM
  #136  
Moar cowbell
 
dminor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The 509
Posts: 12,481

Bikes: Bike list is not a resume. Nobody cares.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Don't get into a duel of symantics with Pete; you will not even tread water let alone prevail.
__________________
Originally Posted by Mark Twain
"Don't argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
dminor is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 04:18 PM
  #137  
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Between the mountains and the lake.
Posts: 16,681

Bikes: 8 bikes - one for each day of the week!

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
People use toilets all there life without having a clue about how they work.
I am going to use this quote every chance I get.



Hey Pete, what was your original join date?
Brian is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 04:50 PM
  #138  
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Between the mountains and the lake.
Posts: 16,681

Bikes: 8 bikes - one for each day of the week!

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Fixed. Except for the minutes and seconds. Methinks your birthday is not correct either, but I'm sure we can live with that.
Brian is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 07:11 PM
  #139  
Senior Member
 
santiago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Posts: 4,510

Bikes: 2005 Kona Blast; 2005 Turner Flux, 2006 Felt F3C

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm so happy when Pete spends time here. He's been spending a lot of time over at VC and A&S. I read through some of the threads but it's just so much better here.
santiago is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 10:43 PM
  #140  
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Posts: 16,966

Bikes: Trek Fuel EX 8 27.5 +, 2002 Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Vc?
Maelstrom is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 11:21 PM
  #141  
Moar cowbell
 
dminor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The 509
Posts: 12,481

Bikes: Bike list is not a resume. Nobody cares.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Vintage & Classic?
__________________
Originally Posted by Mark Twain
"Don't argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
dminor is offline  
Old 06-09-07, 12:29 AM
  #142  
If its Retro its "IN"
 
fjyang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
You are assuming that I am upset, or not chill. You are mistaken once again.

On the contrary, I am very chill. It's hard not to be chill when I'm laughing so hard.

Have you done any homework yet?
I don't need to assume anything with you Pete, its pretty clear already.

YOu keep having hardon's for tires but tires alone don't stop your bike, if you're relying friction between the road and your tire to stop your vehicles ....then you're also pretty confuse.

Its the friction between the brake "pads and your rotors" that provide the majority of your braking force.

Tires provide "traction" and as long as the tire can maintain that traction with road surface then whatever the braking force generated by the calipers and rotors can be effectively transfer.

You state that you need to a larger tire size to shorten your braking distance.... and I disagree with you as you do that last.

People go wilth larger rotor or extra caliper/pistons to increase braking force as there is way more friction on rotors/pads than tires, only when you start to lose traction then you upgrade the tire to match your braking set up. NOT the other way around as you stated.

Tire, rotors and calipers and master cyclinders all play their part as I stated before in braking. If you want to disect and take my words regarding individual element out of "contex" to serve your purpose like you have done with so many other post from other threads too, then you're belittling yourself with all those word game your playing.

You can wax lyrics with your semantics and I give you credit for that. I bet the above words can keep you going for another......20 post? I'm sure you can do what you do best...so knock yourself out with it.
fjyang is offline  
Old 06-09-07, 01:17 AM
  #143  
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Posts: 16,966

Bikes: Trek Fuel EX 8 27.5 +, 2002 Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by dminor
Vintage & Classic?
Ahhh I didnt even know we had that forum...

/me is gonna sit back and watch the massacre. This is one of the funniest threads in a while
Maelstrom is offline  
Old 06-09-07, 05:07 AM
  #144  
Senior Member
 
santiago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Posts: 4,510

Bikes: 2005 Kona Blast; 2005 Turner Flux, 2006 Felt F3C

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelstrom
Vc?
Originally Posted by dminor
Vintage & Classic?
No, VC = Vehicular Cycling. It's a sub-forum of Advocacy & Safety. It was recently created because that one topic was too hot for the regular A&S forum.
https://bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=252
santiago is offline  
Old 06-09-07, 06:07 AM
  #145  
It is what it is...
 
Minesbroken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 811

Bikes: Trek 6500 w/ stuff

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fjyang
I don't need to assume anything with you Pete, its pretty clear already.

YOu keep having hardon's for tires but tires alone don't stop your bike, if you're relying friction between the road and your tire to stop your vehicles ....then you're also pretty confuse.

Its the friction between the brake "pads and your rotors" that provide the majority of your braking force.

Tires provide "traction" and as long as the tire can maintain that traction with road surface then whatever the braking force generated by the calipers and rotors can be effectively transfer.

You state that you need to a larger tire size to shorten your braking distance.... and I disagree with you as you do that last.

People go wilth larger rotor or extra caliper/pistons to increase braking force as there is way more friction on rotors/pads than tires, only when you start to lose traction then you upgrade the tire to match your braking set up. NOT the other way around as you stated.

Tire, rotors and calipers and master cyclinders all play their part as I stated before in braking. If you want to disect and take my words regarding individual element out of "contex" to serve your purpose like you have done with so many other post from other threads too, then you're belittling yourself with all those word game your playing.

You can wax lyrics with your semantics and I give you credit for that. I bet the above words can keep you going for another......20 post? I'm sure you can do what you do best...so knock yourself out with it.
dude...he's assuming you can already lock them up into a slide...at that point bigger better brakes wont help you at all.
your not paying close attention.
__________________
sign here so we can do stuff to your stuff...

myspace
myplace
my bike
Minesbroken is offline  
Old 06-09-07, 10:33 AM
  #146  
Traffic shark
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,612

Bikes: 2 fixies, 1 road, 29er in the works.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SD Fixed
I was looking on a thread or info on disc brake primers..

So, I'm to gather, that

mechanical is a little easier to set up and maintain, but perhaps a little more problem prone.

Hydro is harder to set up and maintain, but noticably better on the endurance side.


Repair on the trail is better with a cable vice hydro.

Hydro you can modulate better than cable.

Am I right so far?
Bueler, Bueler, Bueler?
SD Fixed is offline  
Old 06-09-07, 10:49 AM
  #147  
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Posts: 16,966

Bikes: Trek Fuel EX 8 27.5 +, 2002 Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
The question was answered. And some of them are subjective. I find hydros infinitely easier to setup (most systems come prebuilt), and repair is on par with mechs. most people seem to fear hydros especially on the repair side, but seriously if you have any mechanical ability at all, and can read instructions, its easy money.

If a hydro blows on the trail, then it will stop working. Same with mechs. If you carry the "spares" around for the mechs the "spares" for hydros aren't that much more difficult to carry. It is messier

Otherwise I would agree.
Maelstrom is offline  
Old 06-09-07, 03:13 PM
  #148  
If its Retro its "IN"
 
fjyang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
Yet you continue to make assumptions. Curious, eh?


The irony inherent in that statement is fantastic!


You are lost. The friction at the rotor is a different component than the friction between the tire and the ground. Once there is enough friction between the pads and rotors to stop the wheel, going with a bigger rotor, or a caliper with more clamping force, or higher friction pads, will not shorten your stopping distance.


That's the point cupcake. If you can lock the wheel you have enough brake torque to exceed the traction provided by the tires. Increasing the brake torque via bigger rotors will not offer any benefit as you've already exceeded the traction limits of the tire!


You are utterly confused. Which part of "lock the wheel up" are you struggling with?

Here's some more homework for you. Read this:

https://www.oregonpca.org/Library/track/brakes.htm

Then read this:

https://phors.locost7.info/contents.htm


I have taken nothing out of context, cupcake.

I have only pointed out how very uninformed you are about how braking systems work.

It's you after all that think that larger tires won't shorten stopping distances and that going with bigger rotors will. You simply do not know what you're talking (writing) about.

Cheers!

And do some homework!
There you go again taken stuff out of contex, I'd said tires alone won't do it. Anyway I was expecting 19 more post, sugarpie. Your running out of materials from my other threads to post? Please go through my entire history in this forum and dig things up post here to massage your ego....that can be your homework for the weekend.
fjyang is offline  
Old 06-09-07, 03:18 PM
  #149  
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Between the mountains and the lake.
Posts: 16,681

Bikes: 8 bikes - one for each day of the week!

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Well, since this thread is going nowhere, I'm closing it.
Brian is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.