Hydraulic Disc Brakes vs. Mechanical Disc??
#126
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Originally Posted by fjyang
I guess we just have difference in opinion, right? you can't accept that? By calling people idiocy is not personal attack? What would you do when people call you idot?....they have to reply in kind. I guess this show must go on.
We can all learn something new. Maybe you should take it as such?
If you'll excuse me I'll go back to eating my popcorn & nachos.
#127
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Looking at the thread, I see that Pete has actually gone pretty easy.
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Originally Posted by fjyang
I've been riding motorcycles since I was 16, longer than I've been driving and much longer than mountain biking....so just because I come back to riding bicycle for health reason after 15 years, I'll have no clue on hydraulic brakes? I have change pads, bleeding brake lines and replace master cyclinders on cars and motorcycles perhaps when you still on diapers. The basic concept of hydraulic brake have not chagne since your born so you're no enlighting us with any new stuff here.
...
...
Everyone is allowed their own opinion. You are not allowed your own facts. You substitute your "experience" for basic laws of physics and claim these are facts ... they are not.
You cannot use hydraulics (non-boosted) to amplify force indefinitely and still have the system work. If you amplify the force in your hand by a factor of 30, you reduce travel by a factor of 30. At some point you will have so little travel that you would have to have the rotors in contact with the pads in order for the system to engage. Mechanicals have already go this whipped and if you don't believe me, try some cantilever levers with mechanical disc brakes. To assert that you can amplify the force indefinitely without affecting travel means that you are getting power from an external source. You must identify that source or admit that your theory breaks the 2nd law of thermodynamics (which is a contradiction).
A larger rotor vs a smaller rotor for the same force applied to identical pads as the rotor DOES move over the caliper faster and this generates heat. Thats energy and it has to come from somewhere. It comes from kinetic energy of the bicycle. To assert otherwise you need to cite where that energy is coming from or admit you're breaking the 2nd law of thermodynamics (which is a contradiction).
fjyang, you're theory does not stand up to scrutiny. It's probably best to go read up on what we are telling you and then drop it.
Last edited by willtsmith_nwi; 06-08-07 at 08:24 AM.
#130
mmm babaghanouj.
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man, i've been away too long. i've forgotten how fun this forum can be to read.
#132
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[QUOTE=Pete Fagerlin]
I'm "outa control" because you don't know what you're talking (writing) about? Ok, I'm outa control man!
QUOTE]
Guess you have not taken the advice.....
I'm "outa control" because you don't know what you're talking (writing) about? Ok, I'm outa control man!
QUOTE]
Guess you have not taken the advice.....
#133
If its Retro its "IN"
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Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
What advice was that?
Have you done any homework yet?
Have you done any homework yet?
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I thought this thread was about the differences between hydraulic and mechanical discs... Not squabbling... Just sayin'. You have to let some things go.
#135
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Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
You are assuming that I am upset, or not chill. You are mistaken once again.
On the contrary, I am very chill. It's hard not to be chill when I'm laughing so hard.
Have you done any homework yet?
On the contrary, I am very chill. It's hard not to be chill when I'm laughing so hard.
Have you done any homework yet?
#136
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Don't get into a duel of symantics with Pete; you will not even tread water let alone prevail.
__________________
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Originally Posted by Mark Twain
"Don't argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
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Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
People use toilets all there life without having a clue about how they work.
Hey Pete, what was your original join date?
#138
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Fixed. Except for the minutes and seconds. Methinks your birthday is not correct either, but I'm sure we can live with that.
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I'm so happy when Pete spends time here. He's been spending a lot of time over at VC and A&S. I read through some of the threads but it's just so much better here.
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Vintage & Classic?
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Originally Posted by Mark Twain
"Don't argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
#142
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Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
You are assuming that I am upset, or not chill. You are mistaken once again.
On the contrary, I am very chill. It's hard not to be chill when I'm laughing so hard.
Have you done any homework yet?
On the contrary, I am very chill. It's hard not to be chill when I'm laughing so hard.
Have you done any homework yet?
YOu keep having hardon's for tires but tires alone don't stop your bike, if you're relying friction between the road and your tire to stop your vehicles ....then you're also pretty confuse.
Its the friction between the brake "pads and your rotors" that provide the majority of your braking force.
Tires provide "traction" and as long as the tire can maintain that traction with road surface then whatever the braking force generated by the calipers and rotors can be effectively transfer.
You state that you need to a larger tire size to shorten your braking distance.... and I disagree with you as you do that last.
People go wilth larger rotor or extra caliper/pistons to increase braking force as there is way more friction on rotors/pads than tires, only when you start to lose traction then you upgrade the tire to match your braking set up. NOT the other way around as you stated.
Tire, rotors and calipers and master cyclinders all play their part as I stated before in braking. If you want to disect and take my words regarding individual element out of "contex" to serve your purpose like you have done with so many other post from other threads too, then you're belittling yourself with all those word game your playing.
You can wax lyrics with your semantics and I give you credit for that. I bet the above words can keep you going for another......20 post? I'm sure you can do what you do best...so knock yourself out with it.
#143
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Originally Posted by dminor
Vintage & Classic?
/me is gonna sit back and watch the massacre. This is one of the funniest threads in a while
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Originally Posted by Maelstrom
Vc?
Originally Posted by dminor
Vintage & Classic?
https://bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=252
#145
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Originally Posted by fjyang
I don't need to assume anything with you Pete, its pretty clear already.
YOu keep having hardon's for tires but tires alone don't stop your bike, if you're relying friction between the road and your tire to stop your vehicles ....then you're also pretty confuse.
Its the friction between the brake "pads and your rotors" that provide the majority of your braking force.
Tires provide "traction" and as long as the tire can maintain that traction with road surface then whatever the braking force generated by the calipers and rotors can be effectively transfer.
You state that you need to a larger tire size to shorten your braking distance.... and I disagree with you as you do that last.
People go wilth larger rotor or extra caliper/pistons to increase braking force as there is way more friction on rotors/pads than tires, only when you start to lose traction then you upgrade the tire to match your braking set up. NOT the other way around as you stated.
Tire, rotors and calipers and master cyclinders all play their part as I stated before in braking. If you want to disect and take my words regarding individual element out of "contex" to serve your purpose like you have done with so many other post from other threads too, then you're belittling yourself with all those word game your playing.
You can wax lyrics with your semantics and I give you credit for that. I bet the above words can keep you going for another......20 post? I'm sure you can do what you do best...so knock yourself out with it.
YOu keep having hardon's for tires but tires alone don't stop your bike, if you're relying friction between the road and your tire to stop your vehicles ....then you're also pretty confuse.
Its the friction between the brake "pads and your rotors" that provide the majority of your braking force.
Tires provide "traction" and as long as the tire can maintain that traction with road surface then whatever the braking force generated by the calipers and rotors can be effectively transfer.
You state that you need to a larger tire size to shorten your braking distance.... and I disagree with you as you do that last.
People go wilth larger rotor or extra caliper/pistons to increase braking force as there is way more friction on rotors/pads than tires, only when you start to lose traction then you upgrade the tire to match your braking set up. NOT the other way around as you stated.
Tire, rotors and calipers and master cyclinders all play their part as I stated before in braking. If you want to disect and take my words regarding individual element out of "contex" to serve your purpose like you have done with so many other post from other threads too, then you're belittling yourself with all those word game your playing.
You can wax lyrics with your semantics and I give you credit for that. I bet the above words can keep you going for another......20 post? I'm sure you can do what you do best...so knock yourself out with it.
your not paying close attention.
#146
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Originally Posted by SD Fixed
I was looking on a thread or info on disc brake primers..
So, I'm to gather, that
mechanical is a little easier to set up and maintain, but perhaps a little more problem prone.
Hydro is harder to set up and maintain, but noticably better on the endurance side.
Repair on the trail is better with a cable vice hydro.
Hydro you can modulate better than cable.
Am I right so far?
So, I'm to gather, that
mechanical is a little easier to set up and maintain, but perhaps a little more problem prone.
Hydro is harder to set up and maintain, but noticably better on the endurance side.
Repair on the trail is better with a cable vice hydro.
Hydro you can modulate better than cable.
Am I right so far?
#147
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The question was answered. And some of them are subjective. I find hydros infinitely easier to setup (most systems come prebuilt), and repair is on par with mechs. most people seem to fear hydros especially on the repair side, but seriously if you have any mechanical ability at all, and can read instructions, its easy money.
If a hydro blows on the trail, then it will stop working. Same with mechs. If you carry the "spares" around for the mechs the "spares" for hydros aren't that much more difficult to carry. It is messier
Otherwise I would agree.
If a hydro blows on the trail, then it will stop working. Same with mechs. If you carry the "spares" around for the mechs the "spares" for hydros aren't that much more difficult to carry. It is messier
Otherwise I would agree.
#148
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Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
Yet you continue to make assumptions. Curious, eh?
The irony inherent in that statement is fantastic!
You are lost. The friction at the rotor is a different component than the friction between the tire and the ground. Once there is enough friction between the pads and rotors to stop the wheel, going with a bigger rotor, or a caliper with more clamping force, or higher friction pads, will not shorten your stopping distance.
That's the point cupcake. If you can lock the wheel you have enough brake torque to exceed the traction provided by the tires. Increasing the brake torque via bigger rotors will not offer any benefit as you've already exceeded the traction limits of the tire!
You are utterly confused. Which part of "lock the wheel up" are you struggling with?
Here's some more homework for you. Read this:
https://www.oregonpca.org/Library/track/brakes.htm
Then read this:
https://phors.locost7.info/contents.htm
I have taken nothing out of context, cupcake.
I have only pointed out how very uninformed you are about how braking systems work.
It's you after all that think that larger tires won't shorten stopping distances and that going with bigger rotors will. You simply do not know what you're talking (writing) about.
Cheers!
And do some homework!
The irony inherent in that statement is fantastic!
You are lost. The friction at the rotor is a different component than the friction between the tire and the ground. Once there is enough friction between the pads and rotors to stop the wheel, going with a bigger rotor, or a caliper with more clamping force, or higher friction pads, will not shorten your stopping distance.
That's the point cupcake. If you can lock the wheel you have enough brake torque to exceed the traction provided by the tires. Increasing the brake torque via bigger rotors will not offer any benefit as you've already exceeded the traction limits of the tire!
You are utterly confused. Which part of "lock the wheel up" are you struggling with?
Here's some more homework for you. Read this:
https://www.oregonpca.org/Library/track/brakes.htm
Then read this:
https://phors.locost7.info/contents.htm
I have taken nothing out of context, cupcake.
I have only pointed out how very uninformed you are about how braking systems work.
It's you after all that think that larger tires won't shorten stopping distances and that going with bigger rotors will. You simply do not know what you're talking (writing) about.
Cheers!
And do some homework!