Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Mountain Biking
Reload this Page >

Any Problems with Shimano Rapid Rise XT?

Notices
Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

Any Problems with Shimano Rapid Rise XT?

Old 06-14-07, 09:41 AM
  #1  
Hal Fisher
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Any Problems with Shimano Rapid Rise XT?

I am considering going with a Shimano XT rapid rise rd (long cage for 9 speed). I noticed on MTBR.com there were a lot of reports that it ghost shifts. I was curious if this is caused by using an ordinary rapid fire shifter such as a deore instead of a more specific shifter. Anyone have any experience, good or bad, with this derailleur?
Hal Fisher is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 12:25 PM
  #2  
probable556
pedal head
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I like it and will never go back to high-normal. Performs excellent. Down shifting is reliable and predictable even under heavy pedal load. It's nice if you ride XC and get "surprised" by hills and need to shift as you climb- just a couple clicks with the index shifter and you will gear down within a revolution or so.

"Ghost shifting" will occur with any DR if you do not know how to properly adjust the cable.
probable556 is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 12:26 PM
  #3  
mcoine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: southern oregon
Posts: 2,631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Derailleurs don't ghost shift on their own, they don't do anything in fact until you pull or release some cable.
mcoine is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 02:22 PM
  #4  
Hal Fisher
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mcoine
Derailleurs don't ghost shift on their own, they don't do anything in fact until you pull or release some cable.
True, but a poor derailleur will exacerbate any problem. The original XTR rapid rise had such a problem of constently going out of adjustment that even the company admitted to the issue.
Hal Fisher is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 03:50 PM
  #5  
Raiyn
I drink your MILKSHAKE
 
Raiyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 15,061

Bikes: 2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
There's only one situation that I'd consider using a "low-normal" dérailleur in: I'd actually use them in a bar end / downtube/ or friction thumb shifter setup and only so both levers go the same way. Then again I could always go with an old SunTour Spirt front dérailleur and have the same thing. Shimano hasn't sold me on the whole Rapid Rise concept, or many others apparently, as evidenced by their new production traditional style dérailleurs.
__________________
Raiyn is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 03:58 PM
  #6  
Patriot
Faith-Vigilance-Service
 
Patriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 8,330

Bikes: Trinity, Paradisus, Centurion, Mongoose, Trek

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
^^^ I'll let you know what I think of it when I get my old rig rebuilt with the new setup. I'm not yet sold on the idea either, as it's new. Since the shifters and such were a good buy, I thought I'd give the concept a shot with an LX version first. If I like I'll upgrade to XT down the road. It, on the surface, seems like a good idea for MTB specific use. Note: I said, "seems like a good idea."

I can see why it seems logical to make a der that goes "low-normal". If there is any kind of shifting or cable failure, it downshifts to a lower gear in a "failed" mode. This would seem to be benficial if you get stuck in the middle of nowhere with alot of very steep terrain. So, the concept seems logical in many respects.

Other than being differant, and possibly helpful in some situations, what about the concept seems inadequate?
__________________
President, OCP
--"Will you have some tea... at the theatre with me?"--
Patriot is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 04:00 PM
  #7  
Hal Fisher
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I must admit I am usually dashing to jump down gears before I need them. But then again it is nice to whip up threw the gears. I'll see how it feels and report back.
Hal Fisher is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 04:04 PM
  #8  
Patriot
Faith-Vigilance-Service
 
Patriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 8,330

Bikes: Trinity, Paradisus, Centurion, Mongoose, Trek

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Concerning "ghost shifting". I would assume that the proper shifters need to be used with these ders in order to prevent this. if one was to use the older thumbies, or some kind of friction setup, I can see why it wouldn't work very well. Even rapid fire shifters that work with the older ders may not work properly, and thus unwanted shifting may occur. This may be part of why some users comlain of this problem.

Thoughts?
__________________
President, OCP
--"Will you have some tea... at the theatre with me?"--
Patriot is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 04:05 PM
  #9  
mcoine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: southern oregon
Posts: 2,631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Patriot
If there is any kind of shifting or cable failure, it downshifts to a lower gear in a "failed" mode. This would seem to be benficial if you get stuck in the middle of nowhere with alot of very steep terrain.
Or you can bypass the r.d. all together, shorten the chain, and run it single speed in a mid range gear. I've ridden 10 miles or so home a few times that way.
mcoine is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 04:06 PM
  #10  
probable556
pedal head
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mcoine
Derailleurs don't ghost shift on their own, they don't do anything in fact until you pull or release some cable.
If a DR is improperly adjusted it will skip between gears without using the shifters.
probable556 is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 04:10 PM
  #11  
Patriot
Faith-Vigilance-Service
 
Patriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 8,330

Bikes: Trinity, Paradisus, Centurion, Mongoose, Trek

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Shorten the chain?


That's definitely the option. I think the whole low-normal idea spawned from trying to prevent having to do just that while out on a ride. Shortening the chain seems like alot of unecessary work when in the field. It seems to me, that simply dropping to low gear so you can ride home, then fix it properly by repairing the broken shifter, cable or whatnot, would seem like a better way to do business. Especially for those who aren't the most tech savvy. I honestly wouldn't want to waste a chunk of my time sitting on my keester, shortening up a chain with everyone standing around waiting for me, so we can continue on.

but that's just me. I'd rather spend my riding time riding, not tearing apart chains.
__________________
President, OCP
--"Will you have some tea... at the theatre with me?"--
Patriot is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 04:23 PM
  #12  
probable556
pedal head
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The whole low/high-normal debate is all about preference. I have 2 MTB's, one low-normal, one high-normal. After putting a lot of miles on both setups the low-normal setup just feels more intuitive and natural.

The argument that the high-normal downshifts faster because you can "jam" the DR up the cassette is crap. The spring tension on a decent DR will create a fast and predictable shift under load.
probable556 is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 04:28 PM
  #13  
Raiyn
I drink your MILKSHAKE
 
Raiyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 15,061

Bikes: 2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I carry spare cables (one brake, one shift) when I'm trail riding, even though I've NEVER had a shift cable fail, going back to my ol' hand me down ten-speed I had back in high school. The whole "cable fail" thing is just a solution looking for a problem. The real concern is damaging the rear dérailleur in which case - guess what - you're shortening the chain. If the shifter blows up you've got limit screws you can adjust to put you into a decent gear
__________________
Raiyn is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 04:51 PM
  #14  
Patriot
Faith-Vigilance-Service
 
Patriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 8,330

Bikes: Trinity, Paradisus, Centurion, Mongoose, Trek

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
^^^ So, what is the reason for low-normal shifting then?

Honestly, I'm confused. I thought it was designed specifically to provide a higher level of reliability. Especially when climbing.

I assume when climbing a steep rise, having it fail low vs. high. would be a greater benefit. I would hate to hit a wall when climbing, because my bike dropped into high gear. I suppose maybe this idea is more for racing then? ie, it allows the racer to continue on without having to stop, even though he may not have higher gears available?
__________________
President, OCP
--"Will you have some tea... at the theatre with me?"--
Patriot is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 05:07 PM
  #15  
probable556
pedal head
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Patriot
^^^ So, what is the reason for low-normal shifting then?

Honestly, I'm confused. I thought it was designed specifically to provide a higher level of reliability. Especially when climbing.
It is just preference. The LN lets you downshift by releasing cable tension by shifting with the index finger instead of the thumb on typical Shimano pods. Adjusted correctly, both will perform very well and the chances of either "breaking" are minute.
probable556 is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 05:08 PM
  #16  
mcoine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: southern oregon
Posts: 2,631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by probable556
If a DR is improperly adjusted it will skip between gears without using the shifters.
So there really is a ghost doing it? Amazing.
mcoine is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 05:11 PM
  #17  
Raiyn
I drink your MILKSHAKE
 
Raiyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 15,061

Bikes: 2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Patriot
I suppose maybe this idea is more for racing then? ie, it allows the racer to continue on without having to stop, even though he may not have higher gears available?
That's the only thing that sounds plausible.
__________________
Raiyn is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 05:18 PM
  #18  
mcoine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: southern oregon
Posts: 2,631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Patriot
I honestly wouldn't want to waste a chunk of my time sitting on my keester, shortening up a chain with everyone standing around waiting for me, so we can continue on.

but that's just me. I'd rather spend my riding time riding, not tearing apart chains.
Shortening a chain takes about 5 minutes, maybe 10 for the less mechanically inclined. Riding 10 miles at 8 mph in low gear, takes 75 minutes, while riding 10 miles at 12 mph takes 50 minutes. Do the math.

I'm talking about getting back to a car or home before the sun goes down.
mcoine is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 05:26 PM
  #19  
probable556
pedal head
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mcoine
So there really is a ghost doing it? Amazing.
The DR will skip gears on occasion if the cable is too tight.
probable556 is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 05:32 PM
  #20  
Patriot
Faith-Vigilance-Service
 
Patriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 8,330

Bikes: Trinity, Paradisus, Centurion, Mongoose, Trek

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by probable556
It is just preference. The LN lets you downshift by releasing cable tension by shifting with the index finger instead of the thumb on typical Shimano pods. Adjusted correctly, both will perform very well and the chances of either "breaking" are minute.
Actually, I think you're backwards. As I toy around with these new shifters, I find it seems that upshifting is done by pushing down with the index/middle fingers on top of the brake lever, and downshifting is done by releasing cable tension with the little thumb trigger underneath.
__________________
President, OCP
--"Will you have some tea... at the theatre with me?"--
Patriot is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 05:42 PM
  #21  
Hal Fisher
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shimano's own argument is that it makes for faster down shifting and ability to have a limp home mode. It has been a long time since I've ridden so I might take to rapid rise much easier than most. Right now it requires I think about which one to use to get the correct one.

I'll install it on Friday and hopefully know by the weekend what I think about it. I just hope it goes on easy and doesn't ghost shift. I'll look at the installation manual to know which side of the gears gets the slight preference when setting it up. I know high normal requires you set it slightly to the low side of the gear. I saw a post from someone who was getting ghost shifting on a RR so they set it to require 1.5 pulls to go higher instead of just 1 (1.5 is normally halfway to the next gear but he said it was the only way to prevent GS.)
Hal Fisher is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 05:53 PM
  #22  
Maelstrom 
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Posts: 16,966

Bikes: Trek Fuel EX 8 27.5 +, 2002 Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I can think of a few problems with it, but it has nothing to do with the equipment itself.
Maelstrom is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 06:13 PM
  #23  
pinkrobe
DNPAIMFB
 
pinkrobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cowtown, AB
Posts: 4,655

Bikes: Titus El Guapo, Misfit diSSent, Cervelo Soloist Carbon, Wabi Lightning, et al.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I really like RapidRise - the derailleur does the work for you, using spring tension to push "up" the cassette. It's very easy to be on a climb and pop into an easier gear with little effort and a short lever throw. Having the extra leverage of the brake lever to go to a higher gear makes it similarly easy to shift in that direction. I hadn't thought about the reliability aspect. For me it's about the ease of use.
pinkrobe is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 07:04 PM
  #24  
skiahh
Senior Member
 
skiahh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: CO Springs, CO
Posts: 1,033

Bikes: 08 Stumpjumper FSR Expert, 02 Litespeed Tuscany, 04 Specialized S-Works Epic

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Hal Fisher
True, but a poor derailleur will exacerbate any problem. The original XTR rapid rise had such a problem of constently going out of adjustment that even the company admitted to the issue.
I've had RR XTRs on my bikes since 98 and haven't experienced any adjustment problems beyond normal wear/stretch type issues.

I think it's a great system.
skiahh is offline  
Old 06-15-07, 05:59 AM
  #25  
ViperZ
Baby it's cold outside...
 
ViperZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SK, Canada
Posts: 7,307

Bikes: Trek 5000, Rocky Mountain Wedge, GT Karakoram K2, Litespeed Tuscany

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm using the 07 XTR Rapid Rise with Rapid Fire Shifters. At first it was strange to get use to pulling the trigger for the down shift (larger cogs), that took a bit of getting use to as I'm an old school thumb shifter guy. With 07 XTR Rapid Fire you can push the trigger to down shift as well, and at time I find this easy to do, however the trigger is nice. The strange part is pushing the big thumb lever for the up shift to higher gears, however I'm coming around. So far I find the down shifts are really smooth, and happen very quickly, with little effort, clunking or grinding. The more I use it, the more I like Rapid Rise.




My understanding is the Rapid Rise System is not as hard on drive train components as it relies on the ramps of the cassette and consistent spring pressure to shift, rather than cable tension.
__________________
-Trek 5000* -Project Litespeed* -The Italian Job* -Rocky Wedge* -The Canadian Connection*

Last edited by ViperZ; 06-15-07 at 06:13 AM.
ViperZ is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.