Okieslims

Hi
I'm going to buck the trend and ask a question about how to ride rather than what to ride

I'm having a lot of trouble with climbs. I'm really decent everywhere else(except log jumps), but I can't climb to save my life. I ussually end up coming out of my clip and putting a foot down on steep climbs. I even threw my chain once after about a 15 foot drop that led into a pretty steep 12-13 ft climb. I had it in too low of a gear I guess. I have one climb that I would love to get over next time I go out. It's not that high(maybe 5-6 ft), but it's basically a rock face and I can get up it a ways but my front wheel almost always pops up on me and causes me to lose balance and momentum. Let me draw a picture of the total obstacle real fast. It's called the dog bowl. You drop in from about 9 ft up into a flat area with a sandy spot in the middle. You have to make a mild left turn over that sand so it's really rough to keep momentum. Any advice would be appreciated.

Chris_F

Keep enough weight over the rear to get enough traction. Keep enough weight over the front to keep the front wheel down. I usually put as much weight rearward as I can while still keeping the front in contact with the dirt. Spin like mad to try and keep an even amount of torque going through the pedals. "Spiking" the torque by jumping on the pedals will just break loose and spin your rear tire, you'll instantly loose momentum and stop. You gotta be smooth on the pedals.

Keeping momentum is key. If you're going to encounter a rock or root that you won't be able to put torque down on you'll need to accelerate in to it so you can cary enough speed to clear the obstacle. Climbing faster is technically easier than slower. Cardio conditioning is key here.

Servo888

Yesterday I was practicing climbing a good sized hill; instead of standing up though I hunched down low to the bars, and that helped a lot. Last time it took 5 attempts to make it up, this time only 2 .

Okieslims

Thanks guys. This should help quite a bit

kenhill3

When things get real steep, I have to practically stick the saddle nose up my arse.

Chris_F

Depends on the circumstance. Yes, the front wheel steers and is important, but on many of the technical climbs around here easing too much weight on to the front wheel will result in spinning the rear, instantly stopping the bike, and walking the rest of the climb. If you have the luxury of rear wheel grip then by all means devote some grip to steering. But when the going gets steep I'll sacrifice the front to keep the rear from spinning uselessly. Sometimes that means losing control of the path of the bike a bit, but the alternative is stopping forward motion.

It's definately a matter of ballance. You have a certain ammount of grip, you can devote some to the front and some to the back. Too much of either is bad, as is not enough. (Spinning smoothly reduces the need for rear grip quite a bit allowing you to devote more to the front). And like all typed advice, none of it is ever truely enough for all the variety of circumstances you encounter on the trail. What works in some conditions won't work in others.

pdq 5oh

IF, you have the traction. If you don't, Chris F is right.

scrublover

https://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ent=kirkie.flv

Venge! Venge!

https://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ent=kirkie.flv

kill.cactus

ChrisF did omit that important detail. All you had to do was say "You forgot to mention this detail..." and you could have avoided making making it look like he is some kind of fool who doesn't know what he is talking about.

You're probably going to say that it is your job to make sure that correct information is distributed on these forums, but unless you outright say that you don't care about how the people you are correcting feel you can't deny that you are being harsh.

kenhill3

Even removing the word 'silly' would have shown more respect.

Blade-Runner

I didn't see this pointed out above and it could be this simple; if you have been riding around with your rear shock on pro-pedal (if your bike has a rear shock or this ability) switch it to full active.

This sometimes helps me with the big climbs.

Cyclist30907654

Yeah. I can understand that. When a person doesn't know what they're talking about. There isn't any respect due to their opinions.

However, I think you need to make a distinction between a person and that person's opinions. I have no doubt that you are an intelligent person and thus would not resort to an ad hominem sort of thing, but making that clear in your posts would be nice. Obviously, it's not your fault that sometimes your posts are seen as a personal attack when nothing of the sort is intended, but you could help by altering your diction.

Al.canoe

My early or learning mistakes were not getting far enough forward and using too low a gear. Eventually, I quit using the 34 cog altogether and switched to an 11/32 cassette from a 12/34. I start out on a steep, rough climb in as high a gear as I think I can make it, and shifting (at least the cogs) during the climb as necessary.

Al

Chris_F

Correct. And sometimes the grade is steep enough that you need to sacrifice front traction in order to keep the bike moving forward with the rear.

Chris_F

I made the "too low a gear" mistake too. It helps to be able to get a lot of rotation from the rear with as little pedal motion as possible. Granted you don't want to go too high since then you won't be able to produce the necessary torque. When I was first learning I'd use too low a gear and as soon as the rear slipped I'd be out of options (since a little rear wheel slip consumed a lot of pedal travel). Using a higher gear helped quite a bit.

Climbing is a huge balancing act. Balancing grip, torque, motion, momentum, cardio, leg strength, etc. The best way to learn how to climb is to climb. You can pick up some good tips on a forum like this but real learning happens on the trail.

pdq 5oh

If you knew anything about NH you'd know the soil is loamy, moist and rocky. Your "generalization" assumed good traction...........initially. Now you're just backpedaling.

I can understand the points you make. Just don't think that everyone Else's opinions are "silly" when they cause you to assume you have all the info necessary to debunk them.

Al.canoe

My theory is that too low a gear reduces your power too much, unless you have phenomenal balance like Hans Ray.

Lower gears provide more torque which reduces the pedaling force of course. But, that also reduces your speed and therefore the power and momentum. We tend to want to compensate for the speed reduction by pedaling frantically to try to keep our speed up and that tends to disrupt balance and steering ability. Those who have really good balance however, are able to go at very slow speed and unweight on the rough stuff and keep going.

I tend to need adequate power to keep a higher momentum to get through the rough stuff, though I unweight at least the front wheel.

I forced myself to climb in either the 24 or the 28 cog (11/32) and now rarely use the 32 unless it's a long climb or it's a smooth surface and I want to catch my breath. Getting out of the saddle on the shorter steep ones seems to save energy since you get up the hill more quickly.

Al

Al.canoe

It seems to me that Fagerlin's "stand and lunge the bike forward while stomping on the pedals to surge the front end over the obstacle." is good technique irrespectve of the type of soil. The traction will just affect how well it works in a particular situation.

Al

BearSquirrel

Stand and hammer on shorter steeper climbs (if you have the traction). Longer shallower climbs call for sitting and spinning. I used to climb steeps in way too low a gear and it would always lead to my going too slow to maintain forward momentum as there are far more "dead spots" when you spin.

My switch to a 29er FORCED me to use higher gears. A big pedal stroke got me going and kept a little momentum going while I could get the next one going. Additionally I think that lower gears made the pedals move so fast that my trailing leg could "contribute". Now I make it a point to climb a given hill in as high a gear as I can and challenge that on a regular basis.

If you look see a low traction obstacle try to "surge" (give 100%) over it right before your rear tire hits it.

Al.canoe

Your post didn't scratch the surface IMO and the other posts added useful information and perspective. If there's confusion on anybody's part, they can ask for clarification.

"get into an easy gear before you hit the climb, shifting mid climb can damage the derailleur if your not smooth." is rarely best and it depends greatly on the situation. It's often better to not shift down before, but to shift much later depending on the approach speed and slope. Every climb and approach to the climb is different. With experience, you can figure out what works best for each situation.

Never have dinged a derailleur and I've been pretty sloppy some times both front and rear. I'll shift both on climbs. I have dinged XT 12/34 cassettes as their larger cogs are prone to bend easily. I shifted over to SRAM (PG-990).


Al

kill.cactus

Another good thing for climbing HARD slopes:

Be ready to bail in case you flip backwards. I amazed myself once by jumping out of clips and over my rear wheel as the bike was beginning to fall backwards.

ZeCanon

You guys are fantastic.

Ok, so you mentioned a climb 5-6 ft in length. Personally, I would see this more of a lunge than a climb. As long as you hit it with a bit of speed, you should be able to lunge your bike forward far enough to get up and over the top, and continue on your merry way. I don't know exactly what it looks like, but from your description I would stand up before the climb, gain some speed, and try to keep that speed as long as possible.

Now, for more extended difficult climbs, here are a few things that I do in most circumstances (yes Pete, there are exceptions)
- Scoot forward on your seat. This moves your body weight forward but usually keeps enough weight on the rear wheel to maintain traction
- lean forward: keeps weight on the front wheel so you can still steer. But really, you don't need much weight on the front wheel at all, just barely enough to keep it on the ground. The notion of equal weight distribution between wheels is foolish, as this is nearly impossible even on flat ground. It is essentially a trade-off; more weight to the front means less traction in the rear, more weight to the rear means less maneuverability. For your little climb, you don't really need any weight on the front wheel at all.
- Find the gear that works for you. Some will say spin to keep even traction, some will say mash. I ride with both types, and they can both work just as well as the other.
-For short climbs like yours, you actually want to pull up on your bars at the very start. This takes pressure off your front wheel and allows your bike to angle upwards with the terrain easier, thus keeping more momentum. If you are familiar with "pumping," it's the same idea.

dminor 

"Dear Miss Manners,

Pete is phrasing responses on an Internet forum in abrupt and surly ways that perplex me. How can I without appearing to; and what is the the proper way to tell him to get bent? Is it 'Get bent, please'? or 'If you'd be ever so kind, get bent'?"

kenhill3

Technically speaking, I believe that your weight is rarely evenly distributed, at least not while you're riding trails and uneven terrain. My sense of it is that you are constantly shifting your weight with the terrain as needed.

kenhill3

Thanks.

I guess my statement had roots in the fact that I did an awful lot of climbing on the trail today. With all the obstacles and changing terrain on those climbs, for some reason I became hyper aware of all the weight shifting I ended up doing.