Not sure what you are paying for Shimano, but I just bought a Centaur group (the same level as Ultegra) from Glory Cycles for less than $530. That did not include hubs.

How do like the Centaur Paramount? Perhaps it is in my price range after all.

While I own it, I have not mounted and run the new Centaur group as of yet. However, I did ride an '00 Daytona group (the Centaur group before they were forced to rename it due to copyright issues) for the '01 & '02 years and put on about 8,000 trouble-free miles. Very high quality gear (as is, ugh, Shimano). I expect the same flawless service from the Centaur group.

I have twice that many miles on my 10-speed Record group of the same vintage and, believe it or not, have only had to adjust the barrel nuts on the derailleurs and brakes in that period of time (I did move the cable on the FD down about 1/8" to take up some cable stretch). I may have to take it apart and check it out to find out what is wrong. It simply never needs to be adjusted. I wish I could find a car or house or wife that was so trouble-free.

Thanks, I have to find a reasonable dealer and check it out. It will be a while before the DA on my bike wears out but it will wear out eventually.

One reason I bought now (and am accumulating other '03 parts that I can afford) is that my understanding from several sources is that '04 prices from both Shimano and Campy will be going up significantly this year. Especially as Shimano is clamping down on e-tailers and enforcing pricing policies. Won't surprise me to see Campy do the same. So I am picking up most any and all parts that I find good deals on as they come up.

If you go by the believe that Record is same as Chorus except for lighter, which makes chorus and Dura-Ace in the same league. The price difference between equivelent groups is very little. Yet people always say that campy is alot more expensive.. In the road drivetain we have two very good companies to select from Shimano and Campy.

Kev - especially for '04, as Chorus is graphite in '04. New Chorus looks like my '00 Record group.

I just hope that Campy will produce a new mtb gruppo some time soon.....

Thanks for the economics lesson. Until now I had no idea that the Japanese invented supply and demand :rolleyes:

My comment on this? I think that sram should pay through the nose for infringing on shimano's trigger design. You basically said it yourself, paramountscapin, the reason that you didn't do sram before was becuase you didn't like the gripshift, and couldn't wait for triggers. So what did SRAM do? they made triggers.

Unfortunatly, triggers were shimanos idea! You cant just copy someone else's work and not get penalized. SRAM should have to buy the liscense to use the trigger technology.

not gonna happen. there is too much money to be made from retro-grouches and shimano haters in the road bike market for them to take a risk and move into the MTB arena.

Yes, crashing_sux, it is obvious that you have no ideas.

Phatman - The greatest imitators (copiers) on earth are the Japanese. Am always amused to see the newest MB come and then see how quickly the Toyota, Honda and Nissan follow the styling cues with their high-end cars. They aren't very good with original ideas, but are wonderful at developing and refining.

Yea dude, I have those X.9 shifters, their a hell of a lot better than those STI XTR things.

Yeah, except for the fact that mechanically speaking, they're completely different.

For Shimano to win this lawesuit, would be like Ford Suing Chevy for making a pickup truck that has 4wd... It's absolutely childish of them, and being a monopoly is crappy. Boo Shimano, and down with their crappy integration of everything.

GO SRAM....

Well said, I agree completely! The fact that they look similar doesnt mean that they work similar, hell,.....shimano will soon sue FSA/Truvativ/Raceface and others for making cranksets!!!!!! They all copied shimano's design....arms spider and rings!!!!!!

WARNING. No one is to design or more importantly try to sell a mountain bike component except if it is a shimano! All mtb parts were invented by shimano, and using,selling,buying anything else is ILLEGAL!

Violators will be shot!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

math2p14 - Here you are. The full Campy MTB gruppo on eBay. They come up ever so often. Believe this was the last iteration.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3638572055

No. it would be like ford suing chevy for using the SAME 4WD system that they use.

and all of you who talk about how different the SRAM triggers are, it seems to me like they look like shimano, work like shimano, but they aren't? Where's the differences, guys?

About the crankset thing, I think that shimano is getting screwed by the whole ISIS thing. the splined interface was their idea, and should not have been copied until the patent ran out. cheers to FSA and ritchey for buying the liscense for the octalink crank.

SRAM triggers are by far superior to STI/Rapidfire or the new flipper ****ty stuff by shimano. Shimano just wants to monopolise stuff....so their new products are more monopoly-friendly rather than refined and developed.....they only use old ideas which they pose as their own...and then they move forward to sue others for making similar products....

Kudos to all the other companies that try to refine and develop products instead of playing with lawsuits.

Right on brotha!! :D:D

I hate companies that concentrate on trying to legally prevent competition instead of developing the best product.

Yea, so we are all in agreement that Shimano sucks and SRAM rules.

Make that CAMPY and SRAM rule!!

Wow. I'm really happy you guys agree...

Stupid monopolies sucks... DOWN with Shimano...

What we really need to do.. is boycott the sucka's..

Amen everyone.... GO SRAM/CAMPY..... boo shimano!!!!

However i still swear by my XT discs, but that said, they where designed by Grimeca...so they are shimano labeled...and not designed...thats why they are good !!!

you guys are pathetic. If shimano was to put something out that was significanly better and more innovative then SRAM or Campy, you guys would have your heads too far up your asses to see.

Ha, ha, ha. Such a silly little boy. Does your mommy know how you talk to adults?