I can only run indoors now on a treadmill as running outdoors kills my knees. On the whole, it helps me keep my weight down and helps with endurance. Mountain biking acts as a great balance as it lets me exercise while being out and about.

What kind of knee pain do you experience? What kind of distance do you do? Is the pin on the outside of the knee on the side?

More often its general soreness that would last for a couple of days but every now and then its worse and I'd describe it more as pain on the side of the knee with the soreness moving downwards to underneath. I've been running outdoors on paved surfaces all through my 20's typically about 3 to 5 miles. I'm in my early thirties now and I think all the grind may have caught up to me. I've been told a lot of things such as not warming up properly to never run on hard surfaces on a daily basis. Ever since I started using a treadmill, problems went away for the most part.

Here's a good article on the various type of knee pain one can experience, their causes and how to address them.
http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_5/194.shtml

I like running on a TM, but I've just joined a running group and the coach says the impact of roads builds up bone density in the lower extremities. So I think the TM is good for building up the muscles in the beginning and on icy days but roads are good for building bone density. I started running just over two years ago and I notice the difference everywhere.

Bone density for MTBers is of huge importance. The difference between a bruise and a fracture on falls. Being banged up but on the bike the next day or in the hospital get metal put in. Probably every MTBer should be running and lifting heavy sh*t just as part of an injury avoidance program.

In a side note, there exist studies that suggest cycling lowers bone density, though I think they've only looked at it with roadies.

Are you a heel striker? If you do not know, what does the wear pattern suggest on bottom of sneakers?

tm running should provide quality bone remodeling... I wouldn't worry about pavement running for this reason. Enjoy the trails too!

I believe I'm a heel striker. Looking at my shoe, I have wear on the heel part with some wear around the big toe area.

Thank you for the article.

Ohhhh.....

I run like the dickens and love it. Midsole striking 5fingers for the win.
The best cross-training is definitely swimming though. Increased lung capacity, awesome cardio workout.

Swimming gets annoying, particularly the chlorine part. Chlorine can damage the lungs and swimming too much in chlorine will dry your skin out like crazy. At least it always did for me, though the anti-chlorine rinse helped me to not stink like a swimming pool. Now, if you have a clear fresh-water lake nearby...

I generally do open-water swim, but during the winter months am restricted to an indoor pool. Just shower asap. And swim vigorously, you don't need to be in the pool for hours at a time.

Yeah, a lot of bad chlorine experience was from competitive swimming... One ends up spending a couple hours at a time on multiple weekdays.

ummm, this is a running thread on a mountain bike only forum. please stop talking about swimming.

:D

I think it's relevant, if you were only running the mtb trail you'd have to swim the section:
http://gallery.mtbr.com/data/mtbr/59...ddle_May25.jpg

hahaha, that's a great pic!

+1

OK, I'm going to re-dredge this thread because . . . well . . . riding season is winding down around here. Fall is feeling too short and winter is just around the corner here in the Inland Pac Northwest. Indoor trainer time is almost upon us (ugh) and thanks to YakTrax, I can keep running all winter pretty much. Well, and I cross-train all year with lunchtime runs.

I've been lazy this year - - a lot of under-4-mile out-and-backs, short loops, etc just to keep the legs moving. So today, I did my first-time-this-fall killer loop: 5.28 mile known locally as the Perry Stairs." I know, it doesm't sound like much but at about the furthest out part of the loop, a turn puts you into a stair-step climb of about 4 blocks, culminating in a block-long literal set of stairs. So 200' elevation gain in the span of 5 blocks. Felt like my heart was going to 'splode when I crested the top. Took about a mile for my system to settle back down again into a more normal, relaxed breathing pattern and to shake the rubber out of my legs.

Still managed a sub-8 pace somehow but I fear for how dismal I'd be in a real 10K race anymore. I think I better commit to more 4+ mile work in the coming year.

Yeah...so 4 miles is a really solid run for me, round trip. I'd say you're doing okay :P

In all seriousness, I am trying to change that. I use the "I'm going to work & school full time, cut me some slack" line entirely too much considering how much free time I still have, not to mention hours of down time at work I could be using to jump rope or...dare I say...use a trainer.

Which leads me to the point of this post. Anyone have recommendations for a solid trainer for a college student's budget? (≤$100ish)

Doug, that does sound like a killer run. Considering the elevation, your pace was excellent. What I've realized as I get older is that it takes more training time to maintain a certain fitness level.


I have slacked off big time the past month or so. I ran my first half-marathon in late September (1:42:38!) after having training for a fast 10K all summer long. I never ran an official 10K but my fastest 10K in august was a 44:xx.

Anyway, after my autumn races I usually take it easy with running and start again in January.

I did start a running group this past May. In the beginning I had real beginners (couch-to-5K) and a few extra people that ran longer and quicker. In the end I only ended up with only one runner who was training for a fast 10K. He stuck it out with me until the Montreal Marathon but he never entered the race. It was a shame as I think he would have done well.

samburger - you really have to try shoes on and you should visit running stores. There are plenty of shoes that are <$100 and I'm sure you'll find something that suits you. I run in shoes called Mizuno Wave Musha 4. I think in the US they are something like $90 but you really should go to a store to get fitted.

Whoops, I should've specified given the topic...I meant bicycle trainers. I've got a decent pair of Asics for my rare road run, & some [possibly only effective by placebo, but still much beloved] Fivefingers for the much more frequent trail run.

Gonna be tough to find a decent trainer for <$100. If you keep an eye on Craigslist, you might be able to find a good mag trainer if you get lucky...I know Kinetic and CycleOps make nice ones. I think Blackburn makes some cheaper trainers, but I have no idea how good they are. Don't cheap out too much though. I bought a really cheap mag off Craigslist at first, used it for a year and then realized what a POS it was after using my friend's CycleOps Fluid2. Splurged and picked up a Kinetic Road Machine, and it's...well, still a bike trainer, but sucks a lot less.

My biking actually got put on hold this fall. Signed up for a marathon and figured I'd be pissed if I took myself out biking. Should be...interesting. My running is the opposite of my riding. I'll ride my road bike if you twist my arm, but I won't be all that happy about it. Similarly, I'll run on trails if I have to, but I'll probably whine. Perfectly happy riding trails and running road though.

Oh, and I'll deal with a trainer before a treadmill, although both suck quite a bit.

Hm, I'll have to keep an eye open for some of those names on craigslist. I could manage to up my budget a little. It's really to keep solely at work...I work in a drive through emissions testing bay (look it up if your state/area doesn't have emissions requirements) which is literally a self-serve carwash bay turned into a small testing facility, & I have roughly 8-9 hours of free time the two days a week that I work at that shop. I'm outside (sans the roof over my head) 10 hours a day with nothing active to do, & a bike trainer sounds awesome compared to nothing.

As for running, I just like having obstacles to run/jump over, kind of like freerunning but without feeling like a fool for sucking at it:lol: The obstacles that seem small & unentertaining on my bike are slightly more thrilling when running, so I like to change it up every now & again to regain appreciation for my local XC trails. That, & road running is killer on my knees...I don't know if doing it more would strengthen them, but they lock up & hurt badly after ~3mi on the road so I generally avoid it.

Just to clarify, the Fluid2 and Road Machine are fluid trainers...and if you see one of those anywhere near your budget you should snap it up because it would be quite a steal...they're both like $350 machines new. I can't remember the name of their magnetic trainers, but though neither of those are cheap trainers by any stretch of the imagination, they are available for less than the fluids, and you have a better chance of seeing one on Craigslist in your price range. Although given that workplace, the biggest downside to the wind trainer (really loud) may not matter, and those can be had really cheaply (again, stick with the good brands though, because you REALLY don't want a bad wind trainer). Oh, one more thing...if you plan on doing accelerations for like BMX start gate practice or something, don't go magnetic, because the ramp up is weird. It's seriously a million times better on the fluid. I can't remember where wind fits into that spectrum, though I think that may be better than magnetic for that purpose too. Just don't buy a POS trainer. It's no different than buying a cheap bike. Granted you won't use it nearly as much, but you'll be a thousand times more miserable on it because it won't work right...it'll take you forever to get the bike set up on it, and once you get it set up, it'll lose resistance after half a ride, or feel unnatural, or rock on the ground, or something else stupid. You don't need some $1000 amazing thing with a ton of bells and whistles, but if you buy a piece of crap, you're just going to end up replacing it with something workable.