I'm simply not convinced there is an advantage. Maybe, you're right. If so, what is the degree of advantage? I want some proof that even 5% of her victory (or losses) has to do with the fact that she was once a man. Does she train more? Is she more willing to win? I can imagine she's a hell of a lot tougher than most if she had the nerve to change her life as she did.

This thread reminds me of all of Lance's detractors talking about doping: who knows what the real truth is, but it's a LOT easier to find ways someone else cheated than to find the reasons we failed. I don't expect any of "us fat losers" will ever even take second to someone who has cheated given people's propensity to find excuses why they didn't win. Champions make their point on the trail, track, and road. Those who are second-best cry about it afterwards.

As a female, I'm not sure how to feel about it. My instinct is to say it's unfair because of genetics or whatever, but my ethics tell me to just ride harder and train smarter. I think that it may be good for women's cycling-s/he may force the other competitors to step up their games.

I'm not sure how the change would affect muscle/fat distribution/strength. My husband gets in shape much quicker than I do; he also loses weight much easier, but that may not be this person's case. I don't know.

BTW-I like nachos, a lot.

In person her mass and size are abvious. Especially in her legs. Spending 20 years as a man and 10 taking drugs does not remove the physical advantage of a man imo. A lot of her mass might be gone but that initial testosterone and puberty would be an advantage.

Doesn't even compare to doping. Doping is something that 'could' have happened (I believe all pros dope up so the point is moot from me) this happened and is true for sure. Thinking logically all that muscle wouldn't just fall off, the bone mass wouldn't just disapear, the enlarged lungs would not just be gone...

Thats for sure. And really on the WC scale she has not done exceptionally well. Only on the national level she has destroyed the competition. WC she is placing top 5ish I think. (only first year thoguh)

A lot of competitors dropped out initially but now I think they are stepping it up :)

Quite frankly, I'm not making a comparison. My POINT is people need to stop looking for reasons why they lost and get on their damn bike and win.

Sorry you took offense, but I was not talking about a Penis. I was talking about testosterone. The performance enhancing steroid banned by sports organization the world over.

I too respect her choice, and I think my posts reflect that.

Your "ride your bike more than your keyboard" comment is pretty personal, wrongheaded, and totally off the subject. Your personal attack and emotional response is nearly as numbing as the bigotted responses elsewhere on the page.

I am sure that all of the women on the world cup, all the female amateur racers, and most of the women riding at the local ski hill could smoke me in several sports. I did not write my post to claim male superiority over women on a global scale. I read the article at the top of the post and noticed that the female times were considerably slower than the male times, and it is true that women's classes were created to have a venue where women could be competitive.

I think it is great when women compete on the traditionally men's circuits, and I am amused when the male athletes get aggravated that they are there (think Vijay Singh and Anika Sorenstam).


I do think she has an advantage as I outlined in my earlier posts, but I also know I have little understanding of the specific situation as I also stated in my earlier post. And to restate what I said earlier, people more knowledgeable about the issues and the sport than I have decided that she can compete on the women's circuit. I think that says it all. When it comes right down to it, it does not affect me in the least. I just think it is an interesting issue.

First off, I wasn't offended. Secondly, I wasn't attacking anyone. I'm offering an opinion, and I don't feel the need to sugar coat it. If it's contrary to yours, that doesn't necessarily consist of a personal attack. I don't even see how my post can be labeled biggoted (wrongheaded, maybe haha). Then again, I don't feel a need to apologize for offering the opinion that winners do not need excuses--losers do.

But let me reiterate: I'm not making this personal. Just like you, I thought it was an interesting discussion, so I threw my hat in. The quote "us fat loosers" was not my choice of words; nor am I suggesting I know your training habits or anything like that. What I am saying is this: I'm sure there are cyclists--in fact, all atheletes--who have the perfect body, etc. for their sport and never meet their potential because they lack the attitude and toughness. Those who beat them level and then tip the scales in their favor largely with intangibles like attitude, toughness, etc. Quite simply, it is easier to say this girl has an advantage than say a racer needs to elevate her competition to beat her--whether she is cheating or not. If anyone chooses to take that statement personally, I suggest examine yourself rather than cast dispersions on me.

What you and others have said about her biological differences (particularly the testosterone point in your case) makes a good deal of sense. You folks may be totally right. However, I'm not convinced that's the whole story why she wins, still.

So let's shake hands via the Internet and not let this thread get too heated. I didn't mean to flame you, I'm just offering my thoughts on the subject.

No worries Zardoz.

It was more the you should ride your bike comment, but I am not usually that sensitive.

By the way, I wasn't calling you a biggot. Quite the contrary I thought it was pretty obvious from your post that you are pretty open minded (if you even care what a cyber space entity thinks).

I agree she must be a hell of a rider to get top finishes. I have only seen downhill racing a couple of times, and it blows my mind every time I do see it.

There must be a smiley handshake here somewhere.

In the Olympics I believe this was 'settled' as genetic male athletes hermaphrodite ( believed female) were not allowed to keep medals. The genetalia was not an issue, it was body physio and chem differences that factored the disqualification.

My op or..post-op :p - I agree with Oly rules, must compete male.

Jef.

Nachos made with fake cheezewizz are gross. Real cheese, real riders.

Maybe it's time for a 3rd class of rider. Men, Women & Transexual class? Or we could go one step further- Men that use to be a women class and a Women that use to be man class. What's next!?

I like Nacho's too!

"What's your take on this?"

A penguin was riding his bike, and suddenly oil began spraying all over the front of his bike, so he gets off and walks it back to the bike shop. The mechanic tells him it will be about 20 minutes to fix. So the penguin goes across the street to have himself a vanilla icecream cone, a cool frosty treat (penguins LOVE cool frosty treats), and because he has no hands, he gets icecream all over his lil beak. The penguin then heads back over to the mechanic, and the mechanic says "it looks like you blew a seal", and the penguin replies "oh no, thats just icecream".

One class should be all comers, m,f,mf or whatever. Best downhill overall period.
I totally would compete against female athletes on the field, lots would kick my butt.
I'm no sore loser. It's skill more than power I feel for DH. Different road racing perhaps.

>jef.

Like warmed cheezewizz, fresh outta the Micro, pour it on those nekkid chips.
Yech.

I like those cheese filled, breaded, deepfried hot peppers. 'cept I like them too much and don't let them cool, so I get a mouthful of molten cheese lava when I chomp the first one.

Burnt mouth eating hot peppers, WOW! WATER! MEDIC!

To bad she can't go balls out anymore. Maybe she'd win more.

If she went balls out, they would make er' switch back to the mens circuit

More than nachos..... I like nuts.
All kinds...filberts, cashews..big round walnuts uncracked...ya, leave my walnuts just like nature intended.
Big, round, hanging under a tree branch.

:roflmao: :roflmao: I really needed a laugh, thanks..bump.

my opinion is if s/he can keep up with the guys, then s/he should go into mens dh. if not, and she dosnt blow the competition away in womens dh, then there should be no problem in letting her race

hahahha ive heard that joke before, except you cleverly changed it to fefer to biking by changing what the penguin was using as transportaition! BRILLIANT!

Only in canada, our great leader would of called her a terrorist months ago. :rolleyes:

MY point was unless you've ever been beaten out of a deserved national championship by this MAN, you really don't have the right to tell those who have that they merely need to train harder.



In a fair contest, that's absolutely true.



No, it was mine, and it was both tongue in cheek and correctly spelled when I posted it. :rolleyes:

Ask yourself this question: How many beers do you have to drink before you find yourself hitting on her? Myself, maybe 8 Canadian beers.