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-   -   Horiz. drop issues... (https://www.bikeforums.net/mountain-biking/602551-horiz-drop-issues.html)

ed 11-12-09 07:25 PM

Horiz. drop issues...
 
Got my Halo bolt on skewers...they don't hold the wheel. Salsa's don't hold the wheel. TBC skewer doesn't hold the wheel.

1. Do I need to sell the rear wheel and buy a bolt on?
2. Do I need to buy a smaller rear tire so I can bottom out the wheel in the drops and use a tensioner? (I still don't think the wheel would stay put in down stairs and such)
3. ???

(I actually tried putting a tug on the drive side. I tightened the TBC skewer down. I hit the brake and the skewer popped out the side. It's stripped now)

Dannihilator 11-12-09 07:30 PM

Get chain tugs, I have them on my pista because everyonce in awhile when I didn't run them the bolt on axle would slip, plus it would allow for proper chain tension.

Also, you may need to put something a bit more toothier inbetween the locking skewer and the frame.

ed 11-12-09 07:31 PM


Originally Posted by Dannihilator (Post 10027053)
Get tensioners

Chain tugs won't work with skewers. Not enough skewer exposed. I have a derailleur mount chain tensioner, but I still think with the wheel bottomed out in the drops...it's gonna slip around. I think I screwed up going with this Revo36 wheelset. I need a bolt-on.


I could go with a Hillbilly TA:lol: Get a piece of AllThread the size of a skewer and use chain tugs on both sides.

Dannihilator 11-12-09 07:35 PM

Tugs would fit inside/outside of frame.

ed 11-12-09 07:39 PM


Originally Posted by Dannihilator (Post 10027082)
Tugs would fit inside/outside of frame.

I don't follow. There's no room inside b/c the hub would rub on the tug. On the outside...there isn't enough skewer (length) to go through both tugs. I had 1 tug on there, but it wouldn't hold.

Dannihilator 11-12-09 07:43 PM

http://profileracing.com/profileraci...?productid=256

These might hold.

ed 11-12-09 07:50 PM

How would that work? Remove my current axle?

Dannihilator 11-12-09 08:14 PM

If they are the right size they'd bolt INTO the axle.

well biked 11-12-09 08:21 PM

Maybe just get a Shimano skewer. The internal cam design has a LOT more clamping force than an external cam skewer such as a Salsa (or any other modern QR for that matter, other than Campy)-

ed 11-12-09 08:43 PM

My axle has no internal threads. It's smooth on the inside.

Dannihilator 11-12-09 08:46 PM

You may need to get a bolt on wheel.

One last thing you can try are star washers or some type of washer that has some kind of bite to them. There are some that are thin enough that it will have plenty of room with the skewer.

scrublover 11-12-09 08:49 PM

The Hope skewer I used has nice steel gnurled bits on the endcap that really grabbed the dropouts - no slippage.

As suggested, maybe a big pair of star washers under both sides where things clamp on the frame?

Check the mtbr SS board - plenty of guys there using tensioner/QR setups on all sorts of frame designs with horizontals.

Sorry 'bout that, Ed!

well biked 11-12-09 08:50 PM

I'm telling you, Shimano skewers will hold a wheel in horizontal dropouts. They have the same old school design as skewers did years ago, when almost all bikes used horizontal dropouts. All other quick-release skewers on the market today, other than Campy, are of the external cam design and are designed for vertical dropouts.

Dannihilator 11-12-09 08:54 PM


Originally Posted by well biked (Post 10027281)
I'm telling you, Shimano skewers will hold a wheel in horizontal dropouts. They have the same old school design as skewers did years ago, when almost all bikes used horizontal dropouts. All other quick-release skewers on the market today, other than Campy, are of the external cam design and are designed for vertical dropouts.

But will not hold the tension needed for SS/FG purposes.

well biked 11-12-09 08:58 PM


Originally Posted by Dannihilator (Post 10027296)
But will not hold the tension needed for SS/FG purposes.

Well, he's got a hollow axle, might as well give it a try.

Dannihilator 11-12-09 09:06 PM

The rear axle on my fixed gear is hollow, but I'm not about to put a quick release on it.

If anything, short from getting a wheel that has a bolt on axle, the star washer will probably work the best for him and can be a very cheap fix.

ed 11-12-09 09:13 PM

What do you think of the "AllThread" idea with star washers?
My TBC skewer is toast. The Halo is fine...but I'm not to stoked on the design of the "nut" end.
I can do an AllThread with a star washer betw the tug and the frame.

ed 11-12-09 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by Dannihilator (Post 10027296)
But will not hold the tension needed for SS/FG purposes.

Agree...I tightened the freakin' Halo tighter than any skewer could possibly handle. I don't think more pressure is the key...I think I need a little more room so I can get tugs on both sides "plus" a little more grip from possibly star washers. The main thing that's derailling it all seems to be the brake.

It prob. worked well for Scrub b/c he appears to be a light dude. Not your fault man...I'm still diggin the frame. I was having a ball until I went outta line again. I still too ya to the cleaners on the frame;)

Dannihilator 11-12-09 09:20 PM


Originally Posted by chelboed (Post 10027362)
What do you think of the "AllThread" idea with star washers?
My TBC skewer is toast. The Halo is fine...but I'm not to stoked on the design of the "nut" end.
I can do an AllThread with a star washer between the tug and the frame.

At this point matter as well give it a try.

FreeRidin' 11-12-09 10:46 PM

I've been running a QR with the horizontal drops on my P bike for a while now. Yes, it works and is secure enough for all the abuse I can give it. HOWEVER, after every ride the wheel moves just enough to make the rear disc rub and squeak on the caliper. Aside from the brake rubbing it is solid.

well biked is right, using an internal cam QR lever can hold a lot more clamping force. I am using a cheap no name one from a path and pavement bike.

I have also cut "shims" from a kick stand to wedge between the axle and the front of the drop outs. This essentially "bottoms out" the axle in the drop out and eliminates forward movement.

See if any of this helps enough to make it ride able.

Rearward movement is still going to be an issue. I have contemplated rigging up chain tugs that pull the axle forwards instead of to the back.

FreeRidin' 11-12-09 10:49 PM

One other idea I have contemplated is running a 8mm threaded rod all the way through the axle and then using washers and bolts to tighten everything down. Might be worth a try... under $5 at homedepot.

ed 11-12-09 10:52 PM

Hmmmm...I think I'm gonna try the 2x tugs with All Thread. If that don't work...I'm gonna do it proper.

I do know a local that has a SS wheelset from an STP brand new.

Either way...mine moves enough that the tire rubs the frame...so something big has to be done. Bummed. I was hoping to hit downtown after work tomorrow. Oh well.

ed 11-13-09 07:39 AM

Important information:
10-32 All Thread is a dead ringer for a skewer. I took my TBC skewer apart b/c it's got a set screw to hold the axle in. I threaded in a longer AllThread skewer axle and "voila"! A longer skewer. Did it solve my problem? Nope. Tried bolt on, tried 2 tugs.


The big issue:
Braking forces. Impact is not causing it to go outta line. It's brake torque. When I grab the disc, the non-drive side is fixed/static, but the wheel diameter acts as a lever, flexes that skewer axle a little forward, and wrenches the drive side loose. I'm assuming it's because I'm a bigger dude and it creates more force than it would on these "stereotypical" lightweight SS'ers:lol:

Still have 2 possible solutions:
1. Take the brake off the rear and run it on the front.
2. Go with a bolt-on rear hub as I should.


I'm gonna call my buddy here in town and see if he wants to sell me a rear wheel cheap. That, or I'm gonna get rid of the Revo's and go for an Outlaw set or something with a convertible rear hub.

ed 11-13-09 09:03 AM

Oh yeah...star washers didn't help.
I can't slam the wheel all the way into the drops even with a 2.35" tire...so that's not an option.

kenhill3 11-13-09 10:06 AM

Ed, just a note on the allthread. I would be concerned, at that diameter, about tensile strength. Maybe consider it in grade 8?


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