Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

Horiz. drop issues...

Old 11-12-09, 07:25 PM
  #1  
ed 
.
Thread Starter
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Horiz. drop issues...

Got my Halo bolt on skewers...they don't hold the wheel. Salsa's don't hold the wheel. TBC skewer doesn't hold the wheel.

1. Do I need to sell the rear wheel and buy a bolt on?
2. Do I need to buy a smaller rear tire so I can bottom out the wheel in the drops and use a tensioner? (I still don't think the wheel would stay put in down stairs and such)
3. ???

(I actually tried putting a tug on the drive side. I tightened the TBC skewer down. I hit the brake and the skewer popped out the side. It's stripped now)

Last edited by ed; 11-12-09 at 07:29 PM.
ed is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 07:30 PM
  #2  
Dannihilator
Still kicking.
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Posts: 19,615

Bikes: 2008 Trek Portland, 1989 Nishiki Altron

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Get chain tugs, I have them on my pista because everyonce in awhile when I didn't run them the bolt on axle would slip, plus it would allow for proper chain tension.

Also, you may need to put something a bit more toothier inbetween the locking skewer and the frame.
__________________
Appreciate the old bikes more than the new.

Last edited by Dannihilator; 11-12-09 at 07:33 PM.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 07:31 PM
  #3  
ed 
.
Thread Starter
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dannihilator View Post
Get tensioners
Chain tugs won't work with skewers. Not enough skewer exposed. I have a derailleur mount chain tensioner, but I still think with the wheel bottomed out in the drops...it's gonna slip around. I think I screwed up going with this Revo36 wheelset. I need a bolt-on.


I could go with a Hillbilly TA Get a piece of AllThread the size of a skewer and use chain tugs on both sides.
ed is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 07:35 PM
  #4  
Dannihilator
Still kicking.
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Posts: 19,615

Bikes: 2008 Trek Portland, 1989 Nishiki Altron

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Tugs would fit inside/outside of frame.
__________________
Appreciate the old bikes more than the new.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 07:39 PM
  #5  
ed 
.
Thread Starter
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dannihilator View Post
Tugs would fit inside/outside of frame.
I don't follow. There's no room inside b/c the hub would rub on the tug. On the outside...there isn't enough skewer (length) to go through both tugs. I had 1 tug on there, but it wouldn't hold.
ed is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 07:43 PM
  #6  
Dannihilator
Still kicking.
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Posts: 19,615

Bikes: 2008 Trek Portland, 1989 Nishiki Altron

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
http://profileracing.com/profileraci...?productid=256

These might hold.
__________________
Appreciate the old bikes more than the new.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 07:50 PM
  #7  
ed 
.
Thread Starter
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How would that work? Remove my current axle?
ed is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 08:14 PM
  #8  
Dannihilator
Still kicking.
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Posts: 19,615

Bikes: 2008 Trek Portland, 1989 Nishiki Altron

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
If they are the right size they'd bolt INTO the axle.
__________________
Appreciate the old bikes more than the new.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 08:21 PM
  #9  
well biked 
biked well
 
well biked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,258
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Maybe just get a Shimano skewer. The internal cam design has a LOT more clamping force than an external cam skewer such as a Salsa (or any other modern QR for that matter, other than Campy)-
well biked is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 08:43 PM
  #10  
ed 
.
Thread Starter
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My axle has no internal threads. It's smooth on the inside.
ed is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 08:46 PM
  #11  
Dannihilator
Still kicking.
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Posts: 19,615

Bikes: 2008 Trek Portland, 1989 Nishiki Altron

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
You may need to get a bolt on wheel.

One last thing you can try are star washers or some type of washer that has some kind of bite to them. There are some that are thin enough that it will have plenty of room with the skewer.
__________________
Appreciate the old bikes more than the new.

Last edited by Dannihilator; 11-12-09 at 08:54 PM.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 08:49 PM
  #12  
scrublover
Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
 
scrublover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: East coast
Posts: 3,486

Bikes: hardtail, squishy, fixed roadie, fixed crosser

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The Hope skewer I used has nice steel gnurled bits on the endcap that really grabbed the dropouts - no slippage.

As suggested, maybe a big pair of star washers under both sides where things clamp on the frame?

Check the mtbr SS board - plenty of guys there using tensioner/QR setups on all sorts of frame designs with horizontals.

Sorry 'bout that, Ed!
scrublover is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 08:50 PM
  #13  
well biked 
biked well
 
well biked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,258
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I'm telling you, Shimano skewers will hold a wheel in horizontal dropouts. They have the same old school design as skewers did years ago, when almost all bikes used horizontal dropouts. All other quick-release skewers on the market today, other than Campy, are of the external cam design and are designed for vertical dropouts.
well biked is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 08:54 PM
  #14  
Dannihilator
Still kicking.
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Posts: 19,615

Bikes: 2008 Trek Portland, 1989 Nishiki Altron

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by well biked View Post
I'm telling you, Shimano skewers will hold a wheel in horizontal dropouts. They have the same old school design as skewers did years ago, when almost all bikes used horizontal dropouts. All other quick-release skewers on the market today, other than Campy, are of the external cam design and are designed for vertical dropouts.
But will not hold the tension needed for SS/FG purposes.
__________________
Appreciate the old bikes more than the new.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 08:58 PM
  #15  
well biked 
biked well
 
well biked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,258
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Dannihilator View Post
But will not hold the tension needed for SS/FG purposes.
Well, he's got a hollow axle, might as well give it a try.
well biked is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 09:06 PM
  #16  
Dannihilator
Still kicking.
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Posts: 19,615

Bikes: 2008 Trek Portland, 1989 Nishiki Altron

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
The rear axle on my fixed gear is hollow, but I'm not about to put a quick release on it.

If anything, short from getting a wheel that has a bolt on axle, the star washer will probably work the best for him and can be a very cheap fix.
__________________
Appreciate the old bikes more than the new.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 09:13 PM
  #17  
ed 
.
Thread Starter
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What do you think of the "AllThread" idea with star washers?
My TBC skewer is toast. The Halo is fine...but I'm not to stoked on the design of the "nut" end.
I can do an AllThread with a star washer betw the tug and the frame.
ed is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 09:16 PM
  #18  
ed 
.
Thread Starter
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dannihilator View Post
But will not hold the tension needed for SS/FG purposes.
Agree...I tightened the freakin' Halo tighter than any skewer could possibly handle. I don't think more pressure is the key...I think I need a little more room so I can get tugs on both sides "plus" a little more grip from possibly star washers. The main thing that's derailling it all seems to be the brake.

It prob. worked well for Scrub b/c he appears to be a light dude. Not your fault man...I'm still diggin the frame. I was having a ball until I went outta line again. I still too ya to the cleaners on the frame

Last edited by ed; 11-12-09 at 10:04 PM.
ed is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 09:20 PM
  #19  
Dannihilator
Still kicking.
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Posts: 19,615

Bikes: 2008 Trek Portland, 1989 Nishiki Altron

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
What do you think of the "AllThread" idea with star washers?
My TBC skewer is toast. The Halo is fine...but I'm not to stoked on the design of the "nut" end.
I can do an AllThread with a star washer between the tug and the frame.
At this point matter as well give it a try.
__________________
Appreciate the old bikes more than the new.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 10:46 PM
  #20  
FreeRidin'
Senior Member
 
FreeRidin''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulderado
Posts: 1,474

Bikes: Intense SS, Old spesh P series, ski/snow bike, fixie conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've been running a QR with the horizontal drops on my P bike for a while now. Yes, it works and is secure enough for all the abuse I can give it. HOWEVER, after every ride the wheel moves just enough to make the rear disc rub and squeak on the caliper. Aside from the brake rubbing it is solid.

well biked is right, using an internal cam QR lever can hold a lot more clamping force. I am using a cheap no name one from a path and pavement bike.

I have also cut "shims" from a kick stand to wedge between the axle and the front of the drop outs. This essentially "bottoms out" the axle in the drop out and eliminates forward movement.

See if any of this helps enough to make it ride able.

Rearward movement is still going to be an issue. I have contemplated rigging up chain tugs that pull the axle forwards instead of to the back.
FreeRidin' is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 10:49 PM
  #21  
FreeRidin'
Senior Member
 
FreeRidin''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulderado
Posts: 1,474

Bikes: Intense SS, Old spesh P series, ski/snow bike, fixie conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
One other idea I have contemplated is running a 8mm threaded rod all the way through the axle and then using washers and bolts to tighten everything down. Might be worth a try... under $5 at homedepot.
FreeRidin' is offline  
Old 11-12-09, 10:52 PM
  #22  
ed 
.
Thread Starter
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hmmmm...I think I'm gonna try the 2x tugs with All Thread. If that don't work...I'm gonna do it proper.

I do know a local that has a SS wheelset from an STP brand new.

Either way...mine moves enough that the tire rubs the frame...so something big has to be done. Bummed. I was hoping to hit downtown after work tomorrow. Oh well.
ed is offline  
Old 11-13-09, 07:39 AM
  #23  
ed 
.
Thread Starter
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Important information:
10-32 All Thread is a dead ringer for a skewer. I took my TBC skewer apart b/c it's got a set screw to hold the axle in. I threaded in a longer AllThread skewer axle and "voila"! A longer skewer. Did it solve my problem? Nope. Tried bolt on, tried 2 tugs.


The big issue:
Braking forces. Impact is not causing it to go outta line. It's brake torque. When I grab the disc, the non-drive side is fixed/static, but the wheel diameter acts as a lever, flexes that skewer axle a little forward, and wrenches the drive side loose. I'm assuming it's because I'm a bigger dude and it creates more force than it would on these "stereotypical" lightweight SS'ers

Still have 2 possible solutions:
1. Take the brake off the rear and run it on the front.
2. Go with a bolt-on rear hub as I should.


I'm gonna call my buddy here in town and see if he wants to sell me a rear wheel cheap. That, or I'm gonna get rid of the Revo's and go for an Outlaw set or something with a convertible rear hub.
ed is offline  
Old 11-13-09, 09:03 AM
  #24  
ed 
.
Thread Starter
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Oh yeah...star washers didn't help.
I can't slam the wheel all the way into the drops even with a 2.35" tire...so that's not an option.
ed is offline  
Old 11-13-09, 10:06 AM
  #25  
kenhill3
use your best eye
 
kenhill3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Olympia, Washington
Posts: 3,050

Bikes: '75 Bertin, '93 Parkpre Team 925, '04 Kona King Kikapu, '05 Bianchi Vigorelli

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ed, just a note on the allthread. I would be concerned, at that diameter, about tensile strength. Maybe consider it in grade 8?
__________________
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." - Kurt Vonnegut jr.
kenhill3 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.