Maelstrom 

I have used a 9 spd shifter on 8 spd cassette/deraileur. The p2 my cousin got came stock with 9 spd shifter/deraileur and 8 spd cassette

cryogenic

That sounds correct and is a better explanation about the derailleur than what I was trying to say above.. lol... I also didn't think that shifters indexed for 9 speeds would work properly with 8 speeds. might be mildly workable, but who knows.

TimB

I believe this is a picture of a SRAM 1:1 X.9 Gripshift....


Also I cannot see how my experience with the Triggers can be inaccurate. I used the x.9 triggers and hated them so I keep the gripshifters.
The X.9 ergonomics is suitable for me. also the gfear indicator broke on the 2nd ride.
I experince more pain in my hands with those on the bike simply because the palm of my hand is fdoing more support.
Freeriders break things YES But Iknow many freeriders who are Shimano Saint with Dual Control and have not broken the shifters in nearly two years.
So perhaops it's just your lack of skill that causes the failures.

That said, theres no benefit in the SRAM 1:1 ratio. A bigger ratio is better from a mechanical advantage point of view but for twisters to work properly they needed to go 1:1 and used it as a marketing differentiator.
The real benefitto their mechs is the direct cable routing.
Still they don;t outperform Shimano or Suntour so what the big deal?

They american of course or at least marketed by an American company even though the original design is german (Sachs)

wonder squirrel

You think if shimano parts had the direct cable routing they would work the same/better/worse? Now why can't you use a X.x derailer with a Shimano shifter? If you can setup a 8sp and a 9sp, the 1:1 would go out the window right? If the shifter is the piece making the 1:2/1:1 ratio, whats stopping you? Would the X.x derailer shifting be reversed, if used with a shimano shifter (forefinger to goto larger cog, thumb to smaller)?

TimB

what is your infernal ranting about rodent??

they're 2 different systems ddesigned to work with proprietry components to maximise performance and keep your money rolling into either SRAM or Shimano's bank account

you pays you money and you makes your choice.

Both achieve teh same result and effectively. Some like Gripsh*t, Other like Impulse and Others like Dual Control..
Problem??

wonder squirrel

While I'm planning world dominance, there are minor details that need to be ironed out, like how, and why, these shifters work. Feed me!

Trey

I would definitely advocate SRAM over Shimano but for those sticking to shimano for whatever reaosn have you tried an Avid Rollamajig?

Trey

Now that I've read it a couple of times over the 3 pages I must chime in with the voice of disagreement. There IS a difference between 2:1 and 1:1 ratios. The 1:1 ration in practice (Not theory) is MUCH MUCH less prone to need adjustment. I'd say after 10 months of using my X.9 Shifters and Derailleur that I have had to make only 1 or 2 small on trail adjustments. This is in comparison to the 4 or 5 bike shop trips the old XT setup needed. I am certainly capable of making a Shimano system work but it is not as easy to setup and not as tolerant to dirt and vibratoin and other outside variables. 1:1 is hands down more stable and shifts better.

TimB

never needed an Avid rollamajig. I use Nokon cables which are sealed so have no problems with dirt ingress.

I have Avic Rollamajig in the Remote lock out of my Fox Float RL rear shock and it's absolutely crap!!.
It sucks dirt into the cables and gums everthing up. The shock is away for service and when it returns the remote lock out is gone!!


On the 1:1 vs 1:2 ratio thing,

I've found the exact opposite. I find my SRAM drivetrain more susceptible to bad adjustment. not sure why but when a derailleur system wants to give problems then look toward the cables.

Maelstrom 

Holy crap. Two posts in a row I agree with Tim..haha...the moons must be aligned.

Team853

So could you use a 9 spd rear derailleur with 8 spd shifters and an 8 spd cassette? My entire rig is 8 spd right now, but I'll need a new rear derailleur soon and would prefer not upgrading my shifters and cassette when the time comes.

Maelstrom 

Yes...my cous has an 8 spd shifter with 9 spd derailuer and 8 spd cassette. Worked fine.

Team853

Sweet! I suppose I couldn't use the Rapid Rise derailleurs though?

Maelstrom 

.....not sure. I don't know if RR needs matching parts all the way through. since it is 1:2 I would guess it would 'work' but it would be opposite...to be honest I hate rapid rise and have never used it beyond demo bikes for a day. I have a stockpile of normal rise and sram parts so I,hopefully, never get stuck using RR.

Dannihilator

Dual Control put me on the sidelines for 4 months, try not being able to stand to bend over to tie your shoes on cold days, but can't due to bone chips in your lower back. Having to walk on crutches because you broke bones in your foot and having sprained every ligament in that leg all because the damn shifter is also the damn brake, went to shift to the third gear on the front and instead wound up with the damn brake engaging, thus sending me over the bars landing hard on my back and and landing awkwardly on my right leg, and slid into a rock foot first. Never had that problem before with triggers, preferred shimano's triggers over sram's twist shift. How many freeriders actually use the dual control levers, most people remove them and put on lx or deore triggers and use the hydraulic brake of their choice. I haven't had a single deraillieur failure since switching to Sram X.7. I broke way too many shimano deraillieurs because of a simple hit to the cage. I've smashed this deraillieur against stuff hard and it has never broke or gone out of adjustment. The only issue I had was that I did not have 5th gear for awhile, had the others, but no 5th gear. Found out that it was the shimano xt cassette I had was broken, put a new cassette on and had 5th again. I'm actualy very easy on my equipment. Yes, I'll admit I had a brainfart when saying that sram didn't offer a x.9 twist shift. I'm about due to replace the deraillieur will probably put a X.0 on this time or go SS. I have a bit of a right to dislike dual control.

iamthetas

I have an XT der. with SRAM ATAC. nice combo. I prefer the SRAM 1:1 but since this came with the bike Im not switching until it wears out. the shifters are super easy to make shift unlike the shim. stuff and using just my thumb took a little getting used to but was much easier a learning curve than going from gripshift to triggers. SRAM once setup right and cable stretched will not need any adjustment. period. getting it that way can be a pain but well worth the effort and aggravation. you can get SRAM with triggers if you want . its actually less likely to misshift than gripshift. I rode gripshift for 10 years and will not switch shifters until I replace the der. with an X9 or whatever is out at the time. I never used any of the X stuff but the 5.0,7.0, and 9.0 stuff was flawless until crashing breaks

The_Convert

I use the full XTR dual control setup. It's much better than anything out there. No accidental shifts EVER. I don't know if i have played enough video games to adapt to it, but if you guys can't control your hands to do seperate actions in the vertical and horizontal planes, or not bang on your levers off a curb, maybe you have some sort of brain tumor.

cryogenic

I think they're neat but I want to be able to use Avid SD Ultimate levers with my BB7 disc brakes instead of having to use Shimano's levers... Do they make an XTR shifter-only? I know the XT set comes as a separate shifter if you so choose. At any rate, basically what I want is something that's not going to require constant tune-ups (I understand the occasional tune up due to cable stretch or smashing it into something), shifts smoothly, has a fairly light action in the shifters, and can take a decent amount of abuse.

Maelstrom 

No need to get insulting champ. Having tested them on a dh run and doing drops and jumps in which you maintain, usually, one finger on the brake at all times. Let me tell you it is not a brain tumour that causes the problem.

My gaming past is up there too. Flippy shifters just don't cut it.

Maelstrom 

You should be able to find individual shifters somewhere. They do exist.

cryogenic

I thought the XT's came as a shifter-only, so I'm glad to hear that I'm correct there. I'm just going to have to do some price comparison and ride both and decide which I like best.

The_Convert

Well, if some don't have the problem at all, you can't fault the equipment. It is your personal style of riding. It's like a begginer blaming clipless pedals for falling over at a stop light. You simply don't adapt quickly and have failed to give it enough time. The future will tell but I would be willing to bet that dual control will really begin to dominate the market once retrogrouches take the time to get used to it.

Maelstrom 

Could it be a difference in industry. I am not a xc guy at all, even when riding xc. 90% of the people I know don't use clipless and the ones that do race dh. But 0% use flippy shifters as, besides the shifting problem,you break one (which btw is common on a dh course) its 400 cdn to replace.

Maybe in the world of xc, but I don't see it catching on here. I have yet to meet anyone who likes it except convert roadies. And the pros that are sponsored by the system, only run it in vids and pull it off to really ride (similar to rebadging a frame so they don't have to ride ellsworth for example)

The_Convert

well, you are in a very unique biking culture so i don't know if we can consider your stats as universally accurate. There are no free-riders here in colorado and NOBODY doesn't have clipless.
Off topic-
I was looking at an Ellsworth Truth when buying my last bike. I was under the impression that they were well made. Why would they re-badge?

Maelstrom 

I didn't say I was the majority, and really I was speaking more of one spec groupo called Saint. In order to save on production costs shimano makes their parts prettyy universal (RR and flippy shifters) this doesn't work on the industry that saint is focussed on. I imagine for xc clipless and flippy's would be an awesome thing to save weight and gain power. But this market is growing signifigantly and fast, heck even trek is getting in on the action haha

Ellsworth is stunning, but the pro I know that was sponsored by them was on their 'paint' program. He replaced the bike weekly to test out new paint colours He did this because it could not take any abuse (even though it was the freeride model) so for a short time he rebadged another company until he sponsorship was up. This was 2 years ago