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Disks on a XC hardtail?

Old 11-18-04, 07:17 PM
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Akak
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Disks on a XC hardtail?

I just can't seem to make a decision and stick to it

Building an XC hardtail racer and originally spec'd it with v brakes. After hearing some problems people have with Vs and reading rave reviews of the Avid Mech's, I changed my mind and went with the Avids, which I just ordered for $64 each.

Looking at some pics, though, I now see lots of XC racers still using v brakes. Are discs not a good idea for XC racing? I think the total weight difference is going to be around 100g so it doesn't seem like a bad swap out for better braking.
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Old 11-18-04, 07:22 PM
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stick with the avid mechs. they're worth it.

jeff
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Old 11-18-04, 07:26 PM
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enduro
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Disc brakes in my opinion provide such far superior modulation and feel to v-brakes that the weight penalty isn't a big deal. Good brakes give you the confidence to go faster.

Anyway, if you're really stuck on the weight penalty you can compensate with a lighter saddle, seatpost, bars, etc. 100 grams is probably not going to be very noticeable.
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Old 11-18-04, 07:31 PM
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That's what I was thinking. When I previously raced, my strength was climbing and my weakness was descending so I figured better stopping power would be well worth the small amount of extra weight.

Thanks.

Speaking of weight, what is considered light, medium, and heavy for a hardtail these days? I think my prior bike (a Cannondale M700 with LX components and a RS Mag21) was around 27 pounds.
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Old 11-18-04, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Akak
That's what I was thinking. When I previously raced, my strength was climbing and my weakness was descending so I figured better stopping power would be well worth the small amount of extra weight.

Thanks.

Speaking of weight, what is considered light, medium, and heavy for a hardtail these days? I think my prior bike (a Cannondale M700 with LX components and a RS Mag21) was around 27 pounds.
Please let me know how those brakes work compared to your LX V-brakes. I may be interested in the same upgrade next year.

I have a 24 pound full suspension. My personal assumptions for hardtails are:

light: <=22
medium: 24
heavy: 26>
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Old 11-18-04, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Akak
I just can't seem to make a decision and stick to it

Building an XC hardtail racer and originally spec'd it with v brakes. After hearing some problems people have with Vs and reading rave reviews of the Avid Mech's, I changed my mind and went with the Avids, which I just ordered for $64 each.

Looking at some pics, though, I now see lots of XC racers still using v brakes. Are discs not a good idea for XC racing? I think the total weight difference is going to be around 100g so it doesn't seem like a bad swap out for better braking.
100g's won't likely be noticeable but I'll bet you'll really dig having the discs!
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Old 11-18-04, 08:46 PM
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Go with the discs, you'll never look at rim brakes again.
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Old 11-18-04, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Juniper
100g's won't likely be noticeable but I'll bet you'll really dig having the discs!
How are those Hayes on your Kula? I rode my friend's Element Tsc w/ Hayes HFX9s and I found them to have fairly poor modulation, and not all that much more powerful than regular V-brakes. But my friend's Kona Nunu w/ Shamino Deores seem to be very grabby and have good modulation.

What is going on there??

Ming
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Old 11-18-04, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sparks_219
How are those Hayes on your Kula? I rode my friend's Element Tsc w/ Hayes HFX9s and I found them to have fairly poor modulation, and not all that much more powerful than regular V-brakes. But my friend's Kona Nunu w/ Shamino Deores seem to be very grabby and have good modulation.

What is going on there??

Ming
Hi, Ming. I've been happy with the Hayes Nines but they took awhile to 'burn in'. They can stop on a dime now but it took a bit of adjusting to get them that way over 50 hours or so. Personally, I wouldn't mind having a set of the Avid mech's being discussed just so I didn't have to mess with the fluid. I've heard good things about the Deores, too. I'll try a couple of friends rides next time I'm out to see how their discs compare to the Nines.
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Old 11-18-04, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sparks_219
Please let me know how those brakes work compared to your LX V-brakes. I may be interested in the same upgrade next year.

I have a 24 pound full suspension. My personal assumptions for hardtails are:

light: <=22
medium: 24
heavy: 26>
Those would be xc weights Akak...weights varry for discipline..for example dh

Light = 36>40
medium = 40 to 47ish
heavy = 48 to 55
supid = 55>
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Old 11-18-04, 10:34 PM
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hey, screw brakes, learn to dig into teh turn. Unless you are North Shore freeriding, I think that rims are fine.
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Old 11-19-04, 12:09 AM
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Avid's are the way to go. Plus they're super easy to install as long as you follow the very clear and easy to read instructions.
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Old 11-19-04, 03:17 AM
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plus you can't deny that disc brakes just look cool... I still get normal people who don't keep up with biking coming up to me and going "whoa! Disc brakes on a bike?" It's kinda neat. Plus I have to admit I love the stopping power of my avid mechs. I'll never go v-brake again.
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Old 11-19-04, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cryogenic
still get normal people who don't keep up with biking coming up to me and going "whoa! Disc brakes on a bike?" It's kinda neat
Think of the comments I get when normal people see my full DH bike.
One of the funniest one is someone said, "Whoa, that bike must have cost atleast $400!" and the bikes really worth about 4-4.5 grand
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Old 11-19-04, 06:48 AM
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Let me first say, I'm no professional, and I'm just giving my personal opinion and expeiriences with what I've used. I had Avid SD7 V-brakes (Avid Pads) and SD7 levers (on X139 Mavic Rims) on a hardtail, and switched to the Avid mechs. with the same SD7 levers, disc spec. wheels, and 185mm rotors, and I can honestly say there wasn't a huge difference between the two's stopping power. Most people will probably reply saying "you don't know how to set them up properly", but let me go ahead and say, they are well adjusted, and working great, both front and rear are broken in, the mech. disc's do kick ass, but at the same time, my Avid V-brakes were also extremly easy to setup/adjust, and worked every bit aswell as the mech. disc's. I know that a disc setup would be more beneficial for more of an extreme riding style, but for anything else, (including XC riding/ racing) I'd say a sturdy set of V-brakes (properly setup mind you) with good levers and pads would do you just aswell as discs.

On an off-note, I seen an older ten speed bike from probably late 70's-early 80's that had rims with these little grooves etched into the braking surface (grooves were vertical on the rims, spaced about 1/4" apart), and it got me thinking, how well would these work on a rim like a Rhyno XL? These seem like they may be a good solution for diehard rim brake fans, because it would allow the pad some grip, and be able to give grit someplace to go instead of being sandwiched between the pad and rim. I wouldn't think the pads would be too chewed up either, because its not to deep of a groove. Maybe give some 'minor' cooling to the rim aswell (not that cooling would be much of a factor, but..) Any thoughts on these?
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Old 11-19-04, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wonder squirrel
On an off-note, I seen an older ten speed bike from probably late 70's-early 80's that had rims with these little grooves etched into the braking surface (grooves were vertical on the rims, spaced about 1/4" apart), and it got me thinking, how well would these work on a rim like a Rhyno XL? These seem like they may be a good solution for diehard rim brake fans, because it would allow the pad some grip, and be able to give grit someplace to go instead of being sandwiched between the pad and rim. I wouldn't think the pads would be too chewed up either, because its not to deep of a groove. Maybe give some 'minor' cooling to the rim aswell (not that cooling would be much of a factor, but..) Any thoughts on these?
I used to see a lot of those types of road rims, too. I had a beautiful Peugeot road bike that I bought in 1973 that had little squiggly 'cuts' in the rim sides. They seemed to work well and were less prone to the rim braking surfaces becoming glazed.
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Old 11-19-04, 09:54 AM
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They had to 'scuff' the braking surface, they were likely STEEL rims. Steel rims and brakes are a match made in hell. I doubt there would be any noticable performance advantage on todays aluminum alloy rims.

As far as Disks go, imo they are indispensible if you ride either in wet/muddy conditions or are a freeride/downhill guy. For mainly dry XC, good v's work fine, weigh less than disks and cost a lot less. My Deore V's with MEC pads on Mavic Crossland rims stop me every bit as good as my buddies HFX-9's, although requiring a bit more lever effort, in dry conditions. My brakes cost all of $60 bucks Canadian compared to a set of hayes that would set a person back over $250 CDN. Also consider that with Disks you likely will have heavier wheels as well. Disk hubs weigh more and most builders recommend going with stronger spokes compared to rim brake wheels.
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Old 11-19-04, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by KrisA
They had to 'scuff' the braking surface, they were likely STEEL rims. Steel rims and brakes are a match made in hell. I doubt there would be any noticable performance advantage on todays aluminum alloy rims.
These wheels were steel (chrome plated), but they weren't scuffed (you do mean scuffed, as in, marring the finish or something right?). Just seems that the grooves would allow the brake pad to put a little extra bite onto the rim.

Off-note again, I used to have a little trick I'd do that would help braking power, (seemed to help) though with todays pad matierials it may not be as efficient, I used to put slits into the rubber pad with a utility knife, it worked to the same effect that siping works for tires.
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Old 11-20-04, 04:38 PM
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I recently purchased a used Kona Blast with avid mechs and 6" rotors. I noticed the brakes have some later movement, that is they are not locked on to the frame. This is the first expierence I have had with disc brakes. This does not seem right to me. If this is not normal what would I need to properly attach the brakes. ( I do not have the manual for the brakes)
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Old 11-24-04, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by wonder squirrel
I know that a disc setup would be more beneficial for more of an extreme riding style, but for anything else, (including XC riding/ racing) I'd say a sturdy set of V-brakes (properly setup mind you) with good levers and pads would do you just aswell as discs.
Sorry, don't agree - went riding on Sunday with a group - nothing extreme but very wet, muddy, and some gravel - at the bottom of the hill most of us with V's had zero stopping - the guys with discs had no problems.

If you ride in when it rains, or on less than perfect trails disks are 'beneficial'. However should be balanced with weight, cost & maintenance.... I am switching !

Anybody have any experience with Julies ? Progressivity, type of riding, comments would be welcome !!
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