Need help with purchase decision… PLEASE.
 

Hey guys / gals, I'm getting back into biking and thought I should stop by here before I purchase a new mountain bike. It's been years since I've ridden a bike and plan to use my purchase for exercising too. I was thinking light trails, pavement riding, possibly some rocky trails and even joining in on some of these "bike parades / coalitions" I've seen around the city (about 50 to 100 cyclist being escorted by police through traffic... looks like fun :)

The only problem is I can't decide on two possible options, and the truth is I can't tell what the difference in quality is. Not looking towards spending $700 to re-introduce myself to this hobby (Not yet... maybe after a couple of years). But ultimately... I do prefer QUALITY!
Please Help... And be brutal :)

My two options are;

"Diamondback Sorrento 2011" - http://www.diamondback.com/bikes/mtn...l/sorrento-11/

From Sports Authority for $330

http://www.sportsauthority.com/produ...entPage=family

**************** OR ****************

"Genesis V-2100" - http://genbikes.com/mountain/Genesis_V-2100_white.php

From Wal-Mart for $165

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Genesis-V2...-Bike/16685814

At double the price the only difference I see are weight and suspension. What I can't figure out is the Genesis so different in quality that it justifies it being half priced?
What about the weight of the Diamondback (about 25lbs) being almost half of the Genesis (about 45lbs)... does that justify the price being double?
Is there a difference in the parts? Below is a set up of the specs to be easily compared side-by-side (with notepad or word) if it makes things easier :)

THANK YOU SO MUCH!! EVERYONE!!

The short answer to your question - is the DB twice the bike? - is an unqualified YES.
DB has a high grade 6061 AL frame, the Gen is low grade (heavier) AL.
DB has double-wall rims w/ stainless steel spokes, the Gen does not.
Drivetrain components are a step up on the DB, not huge, but still better.
The cheap disc brakes on the Gen truely suck, they will barely stop the bike, and that's if you're going uphill.
The weights you quoted are probably not accurate, the DB is probably more like 30 lbs, the Gen is probably around 40, but it's still a big difference, and it WILL matter to you later on, even though you're thinking it's not a big deal now.
Ignore the rear suspension on the Gen, it adds weight, you don't need it, and it will be more of a detriment to pedaling efficiency than anything.

To sum up, the DB frame and wheels are something which will last you for a while and make a decent platform for maintaining/upgrading later on - the Gen is a boat anchor that you will tire of quickly, and is essentially a throw-away bike (when components start breaking it's not worth putting any money into).

Hope that helps.

BTW, you will likely get responses that say, buy used from Craigslist, you'll get more bike for your money. This only works if you know how to assess bikes and components for both quality and state of wear/disrepair. You can easily end up with a "high quality" bike with a bunch of worn out components. This doesn't sound like your thing to me based on your post.

Hey there Notrandom!

This Scyclops guy is quite intelligent, as you can tell. He's given you excellent advice. I will only add to his summation. The Diamondback bike is a better bike, but not that much better. If you are anything at all mechanical, I think you'd be much better off ordering from bikesdirect.com.

Just peruse the bikesdirect.com website. Find the bike that you would order. Go to your local bike shop and find a bike that looks a whole lot like the bike your saw on the bikesdirect.com website. Make certain that you write down the name of the bike and the type of bike. Once inside of your local bike shop. Mount a few bikes that look like "your" bike on that bikesdirect website. Get the size of the bike that fits you. Write that size down and then, run away from that bike shop, before they convince you to buy something! Once you've gotten back home, sit down, relax, and have a cup of tea, while you order your bike from www.bikesdirect.com

Ordering a bike from this website will increase your chances of buying a better bike, if you're going to spend say $350 for a bike. Don't order anything that costs less than $350 from this website and you should do a bunch better than the Diamondback you're looking at right now!

- Slim :)

PS.

At that price, don't buy anything with a suspension system anywhere!

I do agree with this, but notrandom, the reason he mentions this is because a BD bike (or any internet-bought bike) will require partial assembly and likely some adjusting/tuning of derailleurs, brakes, etc. Not rocket science for sure, but if you're not so inclined (for whatever reason) then you'll need someone to help you with it, or get a LBS to do it and factor that into your cost considerations.
But yeah, you will get better components from BD at that $350-ish price point.

Drivetrain components and fork, you're right, not a big difference. Frame and wheels OTOH, huge difference IMO.

Sizing a bike based on what it 'looks' like is silly and pointless. Yes, going to the LBS to get an idea of the size you will need will work- although I think that it's a slap in the face to the LBS to try stuff out with no intention of doing business with them.

I would suggest that buying the Diamondback from a good LBS will be better in the long run- they will set you up on a properly sized bike and will take care of ya.

By the way, IIRC Bikes Direct has a decent set of instructions to determine what size will work for you.

Both of those bikes won't hold up very long to trail use.

Check out your local craigslist, even a 5 or 10 year old a used bike for 330 will be way better than either of those, and you can test ride it first.

qft

WOW! great feedback! Thank you everyone, i really appreciate the response and info you all gave. Thank you so much :-)

What about these?
 

Hey scyclops, thank you all for your advice. Since then I've been exploring Bikesdirect.com and I would really appreciate your input on this. I've got three to choose from that fit my budget.

First let me state, I'm good with tools so I won't mind assembling a bike. I think it'll be fun and a better way to get to know my bike. Also, there’s a bike shop I’m planning on heading to so I can fit myself according to the frame model / size of the bike I'll ultimately choose. Do you think this would suffice?

Researching with my professor "google", I know these aren't "name brand" but aren't the parts just as good? I notices these 3 have some of the same parts, but what do you think about the parts that do differ? For some reason I'm leaning towards the Windsor Cliff 4500, but with my experience being what it is, i'm afraid i'm just leaning towards the listed MSRP, which i understand can be off a bit.
Again, THANK YOU for all the help :love:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...500_x_sale.htm
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...4ht_new_xi.htm
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/dawes/hay1000xi.htm


Windsor Cliff 4500

Frame: - AHFX Aluminum Tubing, Advanced Hydroformed Aluminum. Trail Tuned Geometry with replaceable rear derailleur hanger.
Fork: - RST CAPA ML W/LOCK OUT,*ALLOY BLACK CROWN, BRACE AND BLADE PAINTED BLACK, with adjustable preload (Disc Brake mounts)
Crankset: - SUNTOUR XCT V3 Aluminum arms, Triple 22/32/42T
Bottom Bracket: - Sealed Cartridge
Pedals: - ATB Beartrap Al/Composite
Front Derailleur: - Shimano FD-C050
Rear Derailleur: - Shimano Alivio
Shifters: - Shimano ST-EF50 24-SP 8 Speed Trigger shift (24 speeds total) with Optical Gear Display
Cassette/Freewheel: - SHIMANO CS-HG30-8I 11-30T-8
Chain: - KMC Z72 Super Narrow
Hubs: - Gravity Disc Aluminum (black finish) 32 spoke
Spokes: - 32 Stainless Steel 14 gauge Black
Rims: - 26x32H DH-18, Disc Specific Double Wall 6061T6 Aluminum Black Anodized (Some rims have no decals (no choice))
Tires: - 26x2.0 Kenda K-885 Blackwall
Brakes: - Tektro Novella Mechanical Disc Brakes with 160mm rotors
Brake Levers: - Shimano for Disc Brake
Headset: - Integrated 1 1/8 Ahead Sealed
Handlebar: - Windsor Comp Aluminum Riser
Stem: - Windsor Comp Threadless Aluminum
Tape/Grip: - WTB Dual Compound
Saddle: - WTB Speed V
Seat Post: - Windsor Aluminum Micro-Adjust
Seat Clamp: - Alloy w/QR


**************** OR ********************

2011 Motobecane 400 HT LTD Edition

Frame: - Custom 6061 Aluminum Trail-Tuned frame, multi-profile section chainstays, gussetted downtube, forged rear dropouts with replaceable rear derailleur hanger, 2x H2O bosses, International Standard rear disc mounts
Fork: - RST Capa ML Advanced Lockout fork with adjustable pre-load
Crankset: - TruVativ IsoFlow Aluminum Triple 22/32/42T 175mm
Bottom Bracket: - Sealed Cartridge
Pedals: - ATB Beartrap (metal cage - other brands have plastic)
Front Derailleur: - Shimano Altus top swing
Rear Derailleur: - Shimano Alivio long cage
Shifters: - Shimano*ST-EF50**8 Speed STI EZfire (24 speeds total)
Cassette/Freewheel: - Cassette 11-30T 8 Speed Hyperglide*(24 speeds total)
Chain: - KMC Z72 Narrow*8 speed
Hubs: - Formula DiscSpecific Aluminum (black) Rubber Sealed Ball Bearing mechanism
Spokes: - Stainless Steel
Rims: - Alex Racers Edge Adventurer Rims*-* Double Wall*Aluminum
Tires: - WTB Velociraptor Blackwall 26 x 2.10 (front and rear specific tread pattern)
Brakes: - TEKTRO Novela Mechanical Disc Brakes with Standard Round Rotors
Brake Levers: - Shimano for Disc
Headset: - Cane Creek Sealed caged ball bearing 1.125 inch
Handlebar: - Comp Aluminum Riser
Stem: - Comp Threadless Aluminum 1.125" steerer
Tape/Grip: - WTB Dual Compound Palm Pillow
Saddle: - WTB Speed V with comfort groove
Seat Post: - Aluminum Micro-Adjust
Seat Clamp: - Alloy w/QR

**************************** OR ********************************

2012 Dawes Haymaker 1000

Frame: - AltairX Custom Butted-Aluminum Trail-Tuned POWER STAY frame, reinforced-gussetted downtube, sculpted rear dropouts with replaceable rear derailleur hanger, H2O boss, International Standard rear disc mounts. Rear rack mounting points.
Fork: - RST Capa Adjustable Long Travel 80mm, with Lockout
Crankset: - TruVativ XFlow Aluminum Triple 22/32/42T, 175mm or SunTour XCT Aluminum arms (No Choice)
Bottom Bracket: - Sealed Cartridge
Pedals: - ATB Beartrap
Front Derailleur: - Shimano Acera Top Swing
Rear Derailleur: - Shimano Alivio long cage (H normal / not rapidrise)
Shifters: - Shimano ST-EF50 Mega 8 Speed STI (24 speeds total)
Cassette/Freewheel: - SHIMANO CS-HG30-8spd 11-30T
Chain: - 8*Speed* Z72 Narrow
Hubs: - DiscSpecific Aluminum (black) Sealed Bearing mechanism
Spokes: - 14G Stainless Steel
Rims: - Custom Disc Double Wall*Aluminum disc specific
Tires: - Kenda Kobra Blackwall 26 x 2.0
Brakes: - TEKTRO Novela*Mechanical Disc Brakes with Multi Pad Angle adjustments (Rotors are round or wave / No Choice)
Brake Levers: - Shimano ST-EF50
Headset: - Internal Sealed bearing VP A71 1.125 inch
Handlebar: - Comp Aluminum Riser
Stem: - Comp Threadless Aluminum 1.125 inch
Tape/Grip: - WTB Dual Compound Trail
Saddle: - WTB Speed V Sport with comfort groove
Seat Post: - Aluminum Micro-Adjust 27.2x300mm
Seat Clamp: - Aluminum w/QR

The 3 bikes are certainly close enough to be a coin flip, but the Truvativ crankset and Velociraptor tires tip it to the Motobecane for me. Also the frame description says 6061 AL and although I'm sure the other frames are comparable, I like seeing it spelled out, so to speak.

BTW, I agree with kenhill's point about (not) using the LBS for fitting purposes only. My inclination would be to go ahead and do it, but plan on buying at least some of your upgrades and accessories from them - in that case I would have no problem with it.

It doesn't sound like you know what size bike you need. You can guess based on your height and inseam, but that still leaves you without knowing what kind of preference you've have as far as reach and stack. I would recommend against buying online until you can look at a geometry chart and guess whether a bike would fit you based on that.

Thank you so much scyclops. You and kenhill are right. I'll definitely get my Locks, helmet and lights from them when i do this. it will be the least i can do.:thumb:

Buy cheap, buy twice. Sounds like you need a hybrid to me. Unless you intend a lot of curb hopping, suspension bikes aren't really needed for "dirt" trails. And those knobby tires get real real old real fast on pavement. Wal-mart employees don't know how to setup bikes and they won't service it a month later when the cables have stretched. If you spend "$700" the first time you'll enjoy the bike for years to come, have less maintenance issues and have a better bike to re-sell in t.he future

Also budget some $ for a different saddle, and possibly grips and pedals. The contact points on the bike are highly subject to personal comfort and preference, and seeing as how you are "getting back into biking" your butt will need some time to acclimate to a proper MTB saddle. Something like the Speed V might be a little too austere to start with, especially for casual cruising around. If you're not comfortable on the bike you won't ride it, and none of the good stuff will happen.

Zephyr's got a good point about geometry, when you ride something that feels good, check the top tube length against whatever you're buying - it's probably the most critical dimension.

Keep an eye on bikes direct and be very thorough to find all their deals. In September I got a 2010 29er Motobecane for $350 that came with Avid BB5, WTB FX28 rims, decent WTB tires, Rock Shox Dart 3, Shimano XT rear derailleur, Deore shifters/ front derailleur, WTB speed V saddle, truvativ cranks. Basically, the parts alone were worth as much if not more than the bike as a whole. This kind of a deal is hard to find though, and really depends on old stock and the time of the year. You may be able to find a really if you are patient and know what you are looking for (same goes for buying used).

Those bikes you found are not bad bikes, and if you stick with what you listed as wanting to do they should be bike enough for you. With so much smooth path riding you would probably want to switch the tires out to something that rolls a little better on flat/hard surfaces. However, if you ever want to do real mountain biking those bikes wouldn't last too long without receiving very regular maintenance.

Edit: oh yea BD stems suck really bad. I found the grips/pedals were actually tolerable, but the stem was a huge, long, weirdly angled, clunky thing.

Thank you. I decided to go with the Moto. this bike will be my official cherry popper:thumb:

also went ahead and purchased a DVD on Bike maintenance and repair from my lbs. they even invited me back if i had any concerns -

"Shimano's pro race mechanic Matt Eames walks you through all the tasks of keeping your bike in race-ready condition"

I'll be sure to post my progress and experience with this bike

again, thank you all!

Can't wait :ride:

Coinflip for the Moto and Dawes for me. Pass on the Windsor.