Attitude and intent is all to often no more than presumption on the part of the beholder. That is particularly true in the retail world, when one's impression of "attitude and intent" is derived from a few seconds of observation.

Just curious, what exactly is your experience in retail? If you come from a recent background of retail employment (ie since big business took over the world & taking advantage of a company's desire to avoid bad press from abusive customers by caving in to their ridiculous demands became the norm) & have still managed to keep a positive attitude about retail customers, more power to you. But it's hard to take criticism from someone who compares working in an auto shop to working in actual retail just because you happen to deal with customers. Again, kudos of you actually know what it's like, that's just not the impression I'm getting.

I worked in retail: my family had a business when I was a kid, and my wife and I did for a number of years whilst raising our kids. We had Customers come in and ask tons of questions and even take pictures of our work, so as to go out and make it themselves or buy it elsewhere. We did our best to treat everyone as a valued Customer, even if they were total jerks. But the number of jerks was greatly outweighed by the number of genuinely good folk.

I pretty much buy most everything from my LBS. In some cases, when I don't want to spend the gasoline to drive I will internet shop, but in the end the treatment I get (courtesy, patience, real assistance) has me spending money there. And if I am just shooting the breeze with a worker there, I cut the conversation and step back (I physically step away) so they can turn to the person that just came in. I love cycling, the folks that I like to ride with, and try to carry that attitude to the shop. They give me a 10% discount from being a local club member, and in the end that makes my internet shopping only a small amount better price wise after shipping. And in the mechanic shop, they go WAAAY beyond the call of duty - a bike fit, seat post, stem, front and rear hub rebuild, and derailler adjustment cost me $96.

And there is that other, bigger local shop up the street. I won't spend my money on discounted merchandise there, I'd rather pay full $ at the shop down the street.

As to the Bastard population in Georgia, could it be, El Guapo, that just maybe your Bastard Detector is more a self-fulfilling prophecy kinda thing? And to "take criticism" from someone that only works in an auto shop? The needle is starting to move on the Detector, but I wonder why?

It's a great big world out there lad, some 7 billion people and counting. The few hundred, or even thousand, people you've personally had contact with notwithstanding, my experience has taught me that if you go around with the attitude that "most people are bastards", chances are your expectations will likely be met. IOW, you get back the same kind of energy you project.

Damn, you beat me to it - well said.

..

You can't let bastards/a-holes get you down too much.

Working in the clinic there are so many ungrateful people who have no idea how much the team puts in to help them get better and be able to go home, and hopefully keep enjoying life. All they see is that the docs never have enough time to spend 30 minutes with them every day (not realizing the whole station is full of other patients), and that they may have to wait a bit if their problem isn't serious before a nurse can assist them with what they need (also not realizing that maybe two doors down someone with an intestinal tumor is throwing up the backed up fluid out of their intestine, and really needs help).

Most people don't understand what is going on behind the scenes, and therefore don't always have the appreciation they should for what you do. However, the people whose lives you change, or whose day you can make a little better are totally worth it.

Everyone can be a bastard sometimes, and a person who is not satisfied with their own life (or just having a bad day) will be much more prone to this. Some people were simply never educated to understand that they should be appreciative when a person is going out of their way to help them out. While I don't like it when these people let it out on me, I feel really sorry for them, and at first try to make them maybe laugh or smile. If that doesn't work then they receive the best care I can give them, but no personal investment from me (and BS complaints will be ignored).

It sounds to me like you are just working somewhere where you yourself are not happy with the situation. Maybe you should try to take a few hours, and try to find somewhere else to work. If you deal with people it won't get rid of the bastards, but it may give you more patience and understanding to deal with them.

I really respect anyone who works and goes to school at the same time, and I know how hard that can be. I would also really recommend going abroad, but remember everywhere has bastards (though in some places they can be more concentrated). Have you looked into exchange/study abroad programs? Sometimes you can get scholarships, or work part time in the country where you travel to making it quite a bit more realistic than trying to go abroad without any sort of program.

Overall, maybe around 10-15 years, from working in a family business to management, ranging from cafe to retail stores to computer stores, and own/operating retail businesses (3 times). My main work however has always been computer - programming, integrator, systems engineer etc.

I agree that a lot of people working retail today, especially for big corporations, don't seem to realize what it's really about.

I'm pretty sure he was being facetious with the whole traveling abroad thing (but maybe you already knew that :thumb:)

Well I wasn't, but if you want to continue doing exactly what you're giving me so much crap for then please, carry on:thumb:

I worked in two small business retail stores in an equally low-income areas to the one I work in now. Honestly I never had a problem with people in general until I started working for a big corporation. After a while, it becomes hard to deal with customers as people when your superiors don't grant you the same courtesy. It's a trickle-down effect & I have nothing but respect for people who don't let it get to them, but I'm just not one of those people.

You speak truly. I strongly believe that the management style you're talking about is the ultimate reason for the imploding store chains. Circuit City for example, some others. Best Buy might be in the beginning of that death spiral, and I see it potentially with JC Penny with their new CEO and changing attitudes. You've got to escape those situations.

I can tell you first-hand that it's happening with..er..I can't use the company's name without express written consent, so we'll refer to it as Wrong Aid. Stores have been closing down left & right for years, you can see in the sale papers that people now regularly have to buy $30+ worth of a single brand of merchandise just to get a $5 store credit coupon or something to that degree, when I first started working here they had just recently realized that there was no difference in responsibility between Asst. Manager & Shift Supervisor except $4+/hour, so they did away with that position & offered a poor severance package for those who wanted to leave because of it, & just cut the pay of those who couldn't afford to. The most thriving companies in the US seem to be the ones that pay & treat their employees with courtesy & respect (Costco, anyone?), & Wrong Aid dug themselves in a hole by trying to cut costs & close stores when the economy tanked, & now the majority of their employees resent the corporation. I mean hell, we have full time pharmacists that have been with the company 10+ years & still have 5 figure salaries!

Granted my only experience in the company is in my district/region, & we are the 3rd lowest district & the absolute lowest region in sales & customer service, so it could just be that the management here sucks.

I humbly suggest that the next time you make a statement and want to be taken seriously that you not conclude your remarks with "Go figure. I'll go cry myself a river or something."

If your forum posts are any indication of your ftf communication style then it's no wonder you're having trouble interacting with people.

There are some people on this forum who are actually trying to help you, but you can't see that because you filter everything through your negative lens that says everyone is just being mean, and none of it is in response to your attitude. Trust me, I know of which I speak, when I was young I was a cynical, self-absorbed little punk who never took any responsibility for other people's reactions to my poor demeanor.

You seem like a basically nice guy, but you're so focused on defending your righteousness that there's no room to even consider that you in fact have immense power to shape your interactions with people - for better or worse.

By remaining locked into your current mindset you're only really hurting yourself. And I hope you take my remarks in the spirit in which they are intended - but whether you do or not ultimately won't matter to me.

Of course not all shops are the same and not all of them deserve your business just because they sell bikes. I would support the ones that support your needs. It is a market after all.

Now for those of you that will jump on my next comment based on my statement above that it is a market after all I'd like to point out one thing to keep in mind, yes it is a market, but you may not like the results by going exclusively on-line. To those that think they are saving X number of dollars by getting things mail-order/on-line you are not saving as much as you think. What I'm referring to is brick-and-morter stores (e.g., your LBS) vs. internet mail order businesses. I'll just touch on it, but the general point will be made. Local sales taxes, property taxes, building improvements, employee wages, shop profits (my gosh, they make a profit? - how dare they!) and more help to support your town in so many ways. Your money spent locally will return to your town (and partially to you through lowered residential taxes, fees, etc.) many-fold. Send that same $$ out of your town to X-internet house and you just don't see it again (or any return) locally.

Also, next time you need something fast to get out and ride that day you can buzz on over to your LBS - - - - and it might be gone because you didn't support it. However, you can order overnight instead or wait for shipping a few days later to save costs - that will get you going out that day won't it?

The "I'll go cry myself a river ir something" was meant to indicate that I fully realize that not being able to afford to travel abroad is a pretty stupid thing to whine about whilst living comfortably in a first world country.

There are a lot of people here trying to help me, and if you haven't noticed, I take what they say to heart & respond appropriately. What causes me to respond so differently to you is that it doesn't feel like you're trying to help because you offer so much criticism & so little advise. When people do that, I tend to assume they're just hate-mongering. So I apologize for misinterpretting your intent.

Fair enough, so here's me trying to offer some helpful advice -

Read this: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...relationships/

Duly bookmarked :thumb: I'll start keeping a list & see what I can work on.

I found this out when 2 LBSs near me closed last year. :(

Wow that's a lot of reading. I only made it through about 1/2 because I have to get ready for work, in "customer service." Samburger, you are 100% correct about most people being bastards. Granted I live in the midwest, and what I feel is a hot spot for self centered bastardism, but I'm pretty sure it's nearly as bad everywhere. People in the US are concerned with themselves and money. That's the American way. I'd say 1 in 20 is a decently good ratio for judging how many are self centered, rude, pricks. But probably only 1 in 20 is actually nice and friendly either. And 1/2 are struggling mentally and seem like they must come from inbred stock or something. Those numbers don't leave you with a lot of hope or a good mood when you deal with it every day for hours.

And as for the comments about it being self fulfilling, totally not the case. I used to be a really positive person. This job has made me less in general and made me hate our population in general. Yet I still have fantastic customer service and have been in line for a shift manager position for 2 years now as soon as one of our current ones leave. It's not that people are giving back what they're getting from me. I'm very friendly and helpful to them. It's just that they're d-bags.

Guys, let's check the guns at the door and cool off. If you want to do some analysis of each others mental and business states, perhaps take this to foo. The OP has a good thread. Take the review of humanity elsewhere.

And also, do remember, personal attacks don't belong here.

Somehow I know I'm going to regret jumping into this, but here goes.

If you have become so bitter because some of your customers were rude to you, didn't treat you with the proper respect, or whatever, then you were never a "really positive person" to begin with. What you were was a naive, idealistic noob who became disillusioned because some people said some things or behaved in a way that made you feel bad.

Being a positive person is not contingent upon only having contact with other positive people - if that were so then there would be no such thing. I don't claim to be such a person, but people who are can't be so easily shaken merely by unpleasant social exchanges.

People behave poorly (and we're not talking about violent or destructive behavior here) for all sorts of reasons - perhaps they have to deal with rude customers at their job all day, for instance. Or maybe they're in the midst of some major family/medical/life crisis, and are stressed to the breaking point. And yes, some people are just plain nasty.

My point is this: people are generally emotional, fallable, undisciplined creatures struggling with different issues in their own lives, they didn't just see you and decide, "hey, just for the hell of it I'm going to screw with this guy".

It doesn't necessarily make them good human beings, but it doesn't make them all bastards either.

Mea culpa on the OT posting, but I haven't noticed any personal attacks in this thread, seems pretty civil to me so far.

You know, on second thought, isn't the op a comment on humanity?

Well ... some do just decide to screw with the retail worker, and some people are just that way. They'll beat you down if you let it happen.

What always worked for me, pretty simple really, is to remember that you're really just performing - no different than an actor playing a role. The customer may or may not know that, but it doesn't really matter because they're mostly working off a script to even if they don't realize it. None of the normal business-type interactions feel personal that way. Even when some moron stalks off insulting you, and I've had that happen, you can laugh it off because they are reacting to the role (and don't have a clue about it).

It's funny...with all my negative feelings for the rude & unpleasant customers, I've never once had a verbal altercation, had a complaint filed, had anyone ask to speak to my manager because of my actions, etc. In fact, I'm so pleasant towards the customers that I was able to politely tell a customer today that there was "no need to be rude" (one of the worst things you can say to an upset person in retail, or really anywhere:lol:), & I said in in such a pleasant & innocent demeanor that he actually apologized & we ended the transaction on friendly terms. I deal with the negativity by venting to others who understand, which is exactly what I was doing here, & what I believe everyone else who can see it from my point of view is doing. Hamilton is exactly right in that we're just acting. I act nicely towards the customers even when I don't feel that way. But eventually those feelings have to come out. It's unhealthy to keep it bottled up & pretend like things don't bother you when they do, but there is a time & place to do so.

I think that was what bothered me the most in this whole discussion, is that people assume that me venting about d-bags on the internet means I'm a poor retail employee & an unpleasant person to interact with. I'm really not, I was just venting on a thread that seemed to be here specifically for the purpose of venting. I've managed to remain one of the most pleasant & positive people at work & my clean record shows that. It really is just a piss poor place to work.


And to get this thread back on topic: MOUNTAIN BIKING! YEAH!! IT'S AWESOME! IT'S THERAPY AFTER DEALING WITH MEAN PEOPLE ALL DAY! WOOOO!:thumb:

But for the most part they do have a choice in how they interact with others.

By the way, I never got to respond to your original post since I had a lot to do today and there were a few other posts that caught my attention so I spent time on in the interim. I was planning on getting back to yours. My comment is - great post! Thanks for putting it together.

Wahwahwah - - c'mon, suck it up ya princess.

I agree in part, but either way, big or small store, if your intent going in is to try something on and then buy it online that is simply wrong. If you want to buy online then you should deal with having to send something back if it doesn't fit. Has the online store helped the local guy pay his bills so you can come in and try stuff on and then buy from the online store? Is the LBS their "showroom?" If you go in to the LBS or Kohl's with the intent to purchase or get ideas on a future purchase and nothing fits so you decide to walk out - that is a different story.

Most of the responses in support of buying at the LBS are concerned with the person coming in and trying on and then going home and buying on the internet. Not pointing at you (so I removed you from the quote), but the word "savvy" can easily be replaced by sneaky, or immoral, or wrong - take your pick or add to the list.

I buy all my tri-cloths from the shop. The bikes are alot of used parts so to make up for it i use the shop and pay the labor for them to install the stuff. I think it evens out.