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11 speed!!!

Old 05-26-12, 07:44 PM
  #1  
pablosnazzy
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11 speed!!!

humans just can't be happy, can't be content with that they have, they constantly have to "improve" or "move forward."

so SRAM now has the 11 speed.

"i don't need that" you say. (using a cool british accent for this part..) but it goes to eleven!!!

9 speed is great, it works wonderfully, i'm quite happy. 10 speed..meh, problems...not really all that worth it, not bad, but i wouldn't rush out to upgrade....now this. a 1x11. like a small metal christmas tree of cogs on your rear wheel sticking out two feet so you can have all the gears you want from 42-10.

but hey, no front derailleur, so you finally get to ditch that useless piece of furniture, sort of like getting rid of that weird chair in the corner with the mystery stains and the spring sticking out, that you would sometimes sit on, but never really liked.

meh, there is no point to this, i recently got off of work and i'm drunk, and if you didn't know already, they are coming out with 11 speed. shimano should be close behind....

http://www.bicycling.com/mountainbik...speed-cassette
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Old 05-26-12, 08:09 PM
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does it have electronic shifting?
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Old 05-26-12, 08:41 PM
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8 speed worked good enough for me.
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Old 05-26-12, 08:52 PM
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From the article: "The basis of the group is a massive rear cassette with a 10- to 42-tooth gear range. While the huge 42-tooth rear cog will receive all the attention..."

HOLY CRAP!!!
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Old 05-26-12, 10:14 PM
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Dude, I've TOTALLY been waiting for a 42 tooth cog! I hate when I can't climb the side of my house because I don't have a large enough rear cog. And chains and cogs have been a bit too durable and hard-wearing since 10sp anyway, so why not make them a bit thinner and add the 42toother I've always dreamed of in the rear? Seems logical to me. I just pray that I can get it in electronic shifting, possibly even powered off of the same battery as my electronic suspension. This in combination with the Adaptrac tire inflation system should provide a very cost effective and Far superior bike.
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Old 05-26-12, 11:43 PM
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I ride 2 x 9 (39,53 & 13-26) and find thats plenty. Im not drunk.
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Old 05-27-12, 09:15 AM
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+1 for 8 speed and 9 speed. I have 9 speed becaue that's how the bike came and I like it. My older Rockhopper that my son used was upgraded, but instead of going to 9 speed, we went to 8 speed XT. SWEET!
I have a 10 speed road bike and that bike burns through chains once a year. My MTBs go longer than 2 years between chains, same for my 9 speed road bike. Just don't see the need for 10 speed MTBs much less 11 speed. I think SRAM needs to get in touch with the MTBers to find out what they really want to see improved rather than throwing something out there because the marketeers want it.

Does anyone remember when Ford Motor Company marketed a new car this way? They named it the Edsel.
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Old 05-27-12, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by roccobike View Post
I have a 10 speed road bike and that bike burns through chains once a year. My MTBs go longer than 2 years between chains, same for my 9 speed road bike.
I don't think it's fair to compare road bike wear to mountain bike wear. Especially when you're going by time rather than miles.

Originally Posted by roccobike View Post
I think SRAM needs to get in touch with the MTBers to find out what they really want to see improved rather than throwing something out there because the marketeers want it.
I agree with this. I'm happy with my 9-speed, and while it's probably fair to make the argument that back in the day people said the same thing about 7-speed and then 8-speed, at some point it becomes silly. I'm all for innovation, but slapping more gears on the cassette is hardly innovation.
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Old 05-27-12, 11:02 AM
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I still ride my 1x7 1991 Stumpy. I hate getting back on the 1x9 shimano xt because nothing compares to the shifting of old thumbies. Regress I say, regress. At least go to the drawing board and say to all at the big meeting. We need the new stuff to be as good as the old stuff. Lets get crackin.
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Old 05-27-12, 11:47 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by roccobike View Post
.... I think SRAM needs to get in touch with the MTBers to find out what they really want to see improved rather than throwing something out there because the marketeers want it....
my opinion, it would have been better if they put the time and money into making better brakes that don't need bleeding all the time....
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Old 05-27-12, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by roccobike View Post
I think SRAM needs to get in touch with the MTBers to find out what they really want to see improved rather than throwing something out there because the marketeers want it.
Oh, but that's not how the good ol' corporate run USA runs these days. People are dumb. Companies are pushed by their higher-ups to sell new things so that they can get more money. Therefore, they have to come up with some stupid new gimmick every other month to market to the dumb people who will buy them because it's new, so it must be better. I personally don't even care if people want to ride around on 2mm wide chains and replace their cassettes after every ride. That's fine. What really sucks about it is then everything keeps getting way more expensive really quickly because companies are spending stupid amounts of money on marketing to try to sell their new crap, which then has to be more expensive to pay for the marketing they used to get people to buy it.

And if they have to change around the gearing, I personally would much rather they come up with a mass marketed durable 9/10tooth cog for my 9sp set-up than a stupid thinner, faster-wearing 42tooth. Shrink your rear cog and keep your chain-ring small(lighter, more clearance over obstacles) rather than using a huge 42tooth cog and larger chain-ring.
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Old 05-28-12, 02:29 PM
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And if they have to change around the gearing, I personally would much rather they come up with a mass marketed durable 9/10tooth cog for my 9sp set-up than a stupid thinner, faster-wearing 42tooth. Shrink your rear cog and keep your chain-ring small(lighter, more clearance over obstacles) rather than using a huge 42tooth cog and larger chain-ring.
With 42 teeth, I predict it will have a pretty long wear life even if they make it out of aluminum (which is virtually certain considering its size). Try wearing out a 42-tooth front chainring; it takes a while even though it's a gear you can put a lot of torque into, rather than a granny gear you'll spin out if you pedal hard.

As for the 1-by-whatever concept, I think it has valid applications. For me as an XC-focused guy, I presently run a 2 x 9 with a 32-44 and either an 11-28 or an 11-32. So my low gear is a 1:1 or higher, and my high gear is a 4:1. That's a 4-to-1 spread, straight up. Switching to a single ring, I'd need at least a 10-40 cassette to maintain that spread of gearing.

Unfortunately, the existing XC-race stuff is geared too low for my tastes. XT cranks come in an XC-race double with a 28-40 ring set, which is like being a clown riding a tricycle when you want to take it up to 35mph+ for the final descent in a race. Last I checked, SRAM's XC doubles are similarly undergeared. XTR is an option, if you don't mind having to buy your own 44-tooth ring separately, on top of an incredibly expensive crankset. So if 1 x anything does hit the market, chances are I'll still have to hack it to get the gearing I personally like. But it's a heck of a lot easier to hack a single-ring system!

What really sucks about it is then everything keeps getting way more expensive really quickly because companies are spending stupid amounts of money on marketing to try to sell their new crap
Taking a look at current prices, it looks like prices for similar-quality 9sp and 10sp cassettes are fairly close, actually. PG980 and PG1050 both have one alloy spider and are priced at $77 and $84, for example. Yeah, you can pay just $35 for a PG950, but it's not comparable (all plate-steel cogs).

In other areas, retail prices are not that different. Shimano has 10sp down to the Deore level now, with retail pricing on par with the previous-gen 9sp stuff.

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Old 05-28-12, 08:52 PM
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Smaller the tooth number, the faster it wears.
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Old 05-29-12, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
With 42 teeth, I predict it will have a pretty long wear life even if they make it out of aluminum (which is virtually certain considering its size).
I think wear has a lot to do with the fact that you don't use your larger cog nearly as often as the middle cogs, or even the smaller one depending on your set-up.
As for the 1-by-whatever concept, I think it has valid applications. For me as an XC-focused guy, I presently run a 2 x 9 with a 32-44 and either an 11-28 or an 11-32. So my low gear is a 1:1 or higher, and my high gear is a 4:1. That's a 4-to-1 spread, straight up. Switching to a single ring, I'd need at least a 10-40 cassette to maintain that spread of gearing...
I'd agree in that 1x-whatever does have valid applications. I currently run 1x9 or 2x9 depending on what trail I'm riding. As an XC guy, though, I don't think I'd ever use 1x--, no matter the big cog in the rear. It seems like 2x-- with a granny up front and a closer ratio in the rear would be a better set-up for that style of riding, no matter the large rear cog. Maybe I'm totally off, though.
...So if 1 x anything does hit the market, chances are I'll still have to hack it to get the gearing I personally like. But it's a heck of a lot easier to hack a single-ring system!
^^^
Taking a look at current prices, it looks like prices for similar-quality 9sp and 10sp cassettes are fairly close, actually.
Well obviously they're not gonna just completely drop the prices for the last generation of stuff when they come out with a new generation. Then no one would buy the new generation. But look at the inflation of bike stuff in relation to the past 10ish years compared to the 100 years before that. The big corporate marketing push of "make new stuff and market the s*** out of it to keep our profits high!!!!!" mentality has pushed bike components to a Crazy exponentially more expensive level. And if you look at the spending, it's HUGE on marketing. The companies are pushed to make more money, and therefore it goes down the company ladder to make new **** and market it to make the money that the owners/CEOs demand. In the end, it offers very little benefit and basically just hurts the average consumer so that the owners/CEOs can make more money. Look at the fact that Shimano and Trek offer their stuff at basically the same prices that small independent companies can offer the same type products. Logically, those HUGE companies who sell HUGE amounts of stuff could offer them at a much lower rate than a very small independent company. They don't because their owner/CEOs demand stupid amounts of money, and push them to create new crap to market so that they can meet those monetary demands.
Originally Posted by Dannihilator View Post
Smaller the tooth number, the faster it wears.
I'd Much rather buy a new 9tooth cog somewhat more often if needed(keeping in mind that you're not using that cog nearly as much as your middle sized cogs anyway since it's just for high speed, so it's not like it's going to wear out significantly more quickly than the rest of your cassette) than a whole new effing 11sp drive-train with 42tooth cog, and lose the weight of the larger chain-rings and/or cogs compared to the 42tooth set-up. And I'm not even a weight weenie, but logic is logic regardless of a high concern about weight.

Last edited by 3speed; 05-29-12 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 05-29-12, 09:08 AM
  #15  
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If you build something new and novel, someone will buy it. Will enough people buy it? Time will tell. 7 sp was great, 8 sp thrilled me and 9 was fine. New stuff is boring.

Dropper seat post and clothes made from cannabis is the only new good innovation.
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Old 05-29-12, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 3speed View Post
I think wear has a lot to do with the fact that you don't use your larger cog nearly as often as the middle cogs, or even the smaller one depending on your set-up.
You can think that, but it's incorrect. Especially since you really don't know how much I (or anyone else) use the larger cogs. The fact is, given the same number of revolutions, a larger cog will wear slower due to increased chain wrap, which spreads the load over a greater area, thereby lessening it and the attendant wear on both sprocket and chain.

I'm holding out for 12 speed.
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Old 05-29-12, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cryptid01 View Post
You can think that, but it's incorrect. Especially since you really don't know how much I (or anyone else) use the larger cogs. The fact is, given the same number of revolutions, a larger cog will wear slower due to increased chain wrap, which spreads the load over a greater area, thereby lessening it and the attendant wear on both sprocket and chain.

I'm holding out for 12 speed.
Why you always gotta ruin the discussion with your facts?
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Old 05-29-12, 10:47 AM
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Now if they could only make an 11 speed road group and catch up with upcoming Shimano and Campagnolo.
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Old 05-29-12, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 3speed View Post
I'd Much rather buy a new 9tooth cog somewhat more often if needed...
I agree. I cant even bring myself to run a 36-tooth cog in the back, much less 42.
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Old 05-29-12, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cryptid01 View Post
You can think that, but it's incorrect. Especially since you really don't know how much I (or anyone else) use the larger cogs. The fact is, given the same number of revolutions, a larger cog will wear slower due to increased chain wrap, which spreads the load over a greater area, thereby lessening it and the attendant wear on both sprocket and chain.

I'm holding out for 12 speed.
I'm aware that given the same number of revolutions the larger cog will last longer. You're correct there - Not that I ever said otherwise. The wording of my statement clearly shows that I wasn't discussing cog wear in terms of simply putting two cogs on a test machine and seeing which one wears more quickly, but rather real life cog wear over the entire cassette. If someone wanted to for some strange reason, they Could gear their bike so that they use the largest or smallest cog much more than the rest. Hell, I Could gear my bike so that I basically just use the largest cog, therefore it would wear faster than any other and the smallest cog last virtually forever. But you "should" be riding in the middle of your cassette range more than the outer cogs, and those would therefore tend to wear out more quickly. And it's not like my statement is some crazy theory I came up with. It's based on experience of myself and experience I've read from people like Sheldon Brown or talking to other cyclists.
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Old 05-29-12, 09:07 PM
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Well obviously they're not gonna just completely drop the prices for the last generation of stuff when they come out with a new generation. Then no one would buy the new generation.
That doesn't seem logical to me. If I have a choice between the 2010 or 2013 Honda Prius for the same price, it's a safe bet I'll get the newer-generation model.
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Old 05-29-12, 09:49 PM
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I have two bikes. One cheaper Shimano equipped 21 speed mtb, and a much nicer 24 speed. Seriously I don't feel there is all that much difference in the two drive trains. I modified the 21 speed with a 48t front sprocket group for commuting with and its great. The other is running 42t in the front and 8 on the back smallest being 12t. 24 is nice, I don't see that 27 would make it much better. I don't even see the need for 10 at the back so 11 just seems overkill for the sake of it.
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Old 05-30-12, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
That doesn't seem logical to me. If I have a choice between the 2010 or 2013 Honda Prius for the same price, it's a safe bet I'll get the newer-generation model.
A Honda built Prius? Holy crap! Anyway, that's not the same. For one, the prices aren't the same for either the bike parts or the Prius. Proportionally, however, putting your price quotes of $77 & $84 into car prices would be like buying a NOS 2010 Prius for $26,900 vs. a 2013 Prius for $29,400 (That's multiplying your $77&$84x300 to get current Prius prices.). Then imagine if they came out with the new Prius, and rather than keeping the 2010 at $26,900, they immediately dropped the price to $10,000. Wouldn't you buy a NOS 2010 Prius for $10,000 vs. a 2013 for $29,400? Maybe you wouldn't, but I sure as hell would. And I'd bet a LOT of money that tons of other people would too. That's the same reason they don't completely drop prices on the last generation stuff in the biking world, or any other market for that matter. Seem logical now? If not, don't get into marketing.
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Old 05-30-12, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 3speed View Post
Then imagine if they came out with the new Prius, and rather than keeping the 2010 at $26,900, they immediately dropped the price to $10,000. ... That's the same reason they don't completely drop prices on the last generation stuff in the biking world, or any other market for that matter. Seem logical now? If not, don't get into marketing.
No, that's not logical either. It doesn't magically cost 2/3 less money to make a car, or a cassette, or a crankset, just because they've come up with a new version of it. So you're not going to get a magical 2/3 price drop on the old item from the manufacturer. If someone's desparate enough to price it at 2/3-off in order to move overstock, that's their own deal, but at the manufacturer's level, just think about it; materials, manufacturing, storage and distribution all have fairly rigid costs.
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Old 05-30-12, 10:39 AM
  #25  
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How did this conversation turn into one about marketing the Prius?
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