My experience with going back to flats
 

So as I mentioned in a post a while ago I was having way too many butt clenching moments in rock gardens (mainly due to me being not so good on the MTB) and I decided to buy some flats and try them out.

Well, I did it...and its horrible!

I don't care what anyone says about the myth of pulling up on your pedals...I must do it a lot because I was soooo much slower on climbs and a lot less efficient on the more technical sections. With the clips on I feel much more in control of everything I'm doing on the bike.

In my opinion, there really is nothing like being clipped into your bike. The old pedals are now back on the bike and the flats are for sale.

I'm new to mtb having just built up a 29er and I had a set of mtb pedals that came with my bikesdirect road bike so I put them on this bike and got a cheap pair of mavic shoes. so far so good riding around my streets. Take the bike out into the woods and all of the sudden HOLY **** you gotta get unclipped quick!!!! I'm about 2 weeks in to mtb'ing and have gone out a bunch of times already. getting more and more confident. IT's more mental, I have to trust that I'm gonna be able to get through areas and like you mentioned, rock gardens are the scariest. I'm contemplating getting a pair of the nashbar pedals that are platform on one side and clipless on the other, mainly because it's a cheaper investment than some type of other dual sided or eggbeater pedal. I'm having a lot of issues with not being able to get clipped back in in time where if I had a full platform to put my foot on I'd probably be just fine

I ride clipped in and can get out really fast. A few times I will still hit the ground, when I don't anticipate trouble. I don't crash a ton but most of my crashes are lowsides. Several times the past few months I've had stuff go wrong but my foot is out in a flahs and I don't go down. MTBing clipped in has made me way better than road biking clipped in, just stick with it.

I would use flat/platform pedals if I were doing ultra-slow manuevering, like trials, and maybe for downhill so that I can put a foot down in a fast turn, motocross style. You don't actually dab unless you need too-- ideally your foot hovers inches off the ground, your tires bite, and your line selection is good.

Still, it's exactly what you said. Pedaling is so much better clipped in. Keeping your feet on the pedals with flats through a very rough section is hard work, too.. but clipped in, you breeze right through and can focus attention elsewhere.

And slipping a pedal is not a fun experience.

I don't do a lot of off-road but I totally agree with your experience. It takes a lot less effort to pedal up a steep hill or over rough terrain when you're clipped in. It's shocking how many muscles you use just to stay on the bike with a platform pedal. Even on my road bike I found that cobblestones (I'm from Belgium ;p) are a breeze when clipped in, and a total b*tch when using platforms.

My shimano SPD pedals came with 4 plastic inserts that convert them to platform pedals. I currently run one insert on each side so I can use my mtb for a grocery run.

Being efficient at riding flat pedals doesn't happen over night. Riding flats takes practice and skills that you are not forced to learn if you're riding clipless. I ride both and I'm certainly a better technical rider because of riding flat pedals.

Here's a great in-depth article on Flat pedals from MTB'r and Fitness specialist James Wilson: http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/...nManifesto.pdf

#1 tip for learning to ride flats is to stick with them for atleast 12 rides.

IMO clipless are easier because your feet stay attached to the pedals, so you can't slip a pedal. You can't cheat with platforms though. What platform/shoe combo were you using? Crappy pedals or shoes make it harder.

I read all of that manifesto, and I'm not really convinced. Some of the things he says are definitely true (e.g. that you are not being more efficient when you try to pull the pedal upward), but there are also rather many unsubstantiated claims (e.g. about float and needing lateral ankle rotation to take stress off the knees). Overall I agree with you that a platform pedalist will be a more complete rider and will train additional core muscles and joint stabilizing muscle ends, but this is the same as acknowledging that it requires more effort and energy to ride that way. For me personally, I prioritize comfort and that means clipless pedals. If you prioritize speed, you should also go clipless. If you prioritize safety, athleticism or technique, you should probably be using platform pedals. And shin guards :)

I have been on pinned platforms for around 2 years now. I have never slipped and feel I can climb better, its just my experience. I can shift my foot position around, its good for me. Enjoy what works best for you.

This is an interesting conversation. It wouldn't occur to me that one would even have to think about technique riding platforms. But then, I've been racing downhill on them for over ten years. For trail riding and XC racing, I may be more efficient on clipless but a couple years ago, switched to platforms for that too and haven't really noticed a marked difference. I just enjoy the ride more on platforms and am willing to give up a bit of perceived efficiency for that.

I run caged Shimano SPDs (M454s) on my mountain bike and I find that not only are they easier to relocate when you're trying to clip in but you've also got a bit of a platform for if you can't clip in (not great but at least as good as those one sided plastic things).

I also have a copy of the Brian Lopes mountain bike book where he talks about pedalling technique for riding clipless. I think often when you go clipless you just assume that it'll sort out your pedalling technique for you but the book gives a really good insight into how to put down lots of extra power and some great exercises to improve. Well worth a look IMO.

Having been a clipless rider (mtn) for the last 15 years or so I have recently started to try using flats. During the last year I started using them in the snow and ice conditions mostly,and now even more so. I really don't see the the diff. The conditions are what usually governs what I'm riding with. I use higher end flats with spikes that really hold the shoe / boot. Summertime I mostly use clipless, ATACs. The transition from one to the other is very minimal for me and your milage may vary from mine. Wilsons article is a great ref.

I didn't read the whole thing (I'm at work)...but is he saying that you don't (or shouldn't) use your hammies on the upstroke?

I've heard this MANY times before...but my PERSONAL experience is that if Im in the middle of a super-long climb I quite regularly start putting more emphasis on my hamstrings during the upstroke and it is quite noticable how much of a break my quads get.

I alternate between a "push" and a "pull" for long climbs...right or wrong it gets me through.

My view on that "manifesto": just another opinion...no more or less valid than those above this post.

The trick for platforms is to forgo the hiking boots and running sneakers for a set of 5.10's, teva links or a good skate style shoe. Find where your feet are comfortable on the pedals. Practice makes perfect.

I've never been without clipless. I used to race bmx and tried it once without clips and my feet were flopping everywhere so I'd figured it be a similar concept. However I also was always around clipless minus the occasion park/street bmx. I'd only run flats for downhilling, maybe...

I think Daanih observation is key for making platforms work. A combination of quality PINNED platforms and shoes made for bike riding is key. dminor "chasitized me for riding in my basketball shoes, and I really liked 'em. But switching to 5.10's was a major change.

But I have become a real believer in quality counts. I used to just ride on whatever was around. I made a move to higher quality stuff grudgingly. The difference is huge. Everyone can still have a blast on whatever you have. And riding cheap crap for a long time possibly made me a better rider. Now that I have a good frame, XT/XTR, ....shoes. It is more fun and more efficient. PLUS, it is easier to fix and stays true longer.

For me it's all about the shoes. I don't like clipless for a MTB at all. Road bike is fine either way(not a racer, just ride for enjoyment). If I try riding my MTB across a particularly bumpy grassy field in anything other than my MTB shoes, I feel like my feet aren't planted on the pedals. My running shoes are outright sketchy on bumpy terrain. With my MTB shoes I can climb rocky climbs, hit jumps, and even hit some fairly big rocky descents and my feet stay on the pedals. And I don't have expensive pedals. The shoes just make a World of difference.

Tracer Finn says pinned platforms-nuff said!

Anyone have any recommendations for flats for commuting uses primarily? Looking to upgrade my Surly Troll with something like: Blackspire Sub4 Pedals, Straitline De Facto Platform Pedals; I don't know much about MTB so any advice here is greatly appreciated. I'm looking for a pedal with a lot of foot support (size 10.5 shoe) and a lot of grip because of the rainy weather we have here. My spending limit is $150.

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=3196

Cheap, durable, works good for a hack like me. Wrench at an LBS bragged em up and I haven't been disappointed. Plus for the price you have money leftover for a new camelback.

Agent Pombero, feel free if you want to and have the spare cash to throw around, but I don't think there's any need to spend $150 on flats for mostly commuting. Something in the price range daspydyr suggested(perhaps in metal so they can be recycled eventually rather than going into a landfill forever) should be just fine. For long lasting smooth pedals with little/no maintenance in wet conditions, Wellgo offers a large number of cheap sealed flat pedals that should suit your needs, as do many other companies. Just do a google search and pick something that looks good to you with good reviews.

Ditto...

Would be nice to know exactly shat make and model of flat pedals gave the OP all this grief. Platform pedals are like every other bike component - they're not all the same. Personally I ride with BMX style pinned platform pedals and don't have an issue. DH pedals are what I'd expect to see mostly exposed to 'rock gsrdens' and those are platform pedals.

But I guess everyone's allowed their personal preferences and prejudices.

I can assure you that alternate riding styles are not a myth.

I've tried both, & clipless pedals aren't as fun to me. I like to goof around on the trail, & freedom of my feet gives me both confidence & freedom to do what I want & ride how I want. I don't race & don't ride with a competitive attitude so efficiency & speed mean about as much to me as knobby tires to Lance Armstrong.

Also, I agree with everyone who has mentioned the importance of pedal/shoe combo (especially pedals) when riding flats. My flats were next to useless until I took Zephyr's advice & got myself some Kore Race II's from CRC ($25ish IIRC). Those paired with some ADIDAS skate shoes that aren't totally worn out is good enough for my purposes, but I've had my eye on some Five Tens for a while to really grip the pins.

Heck,I'm only using a pair of vans and they are fairing perfectly fine for me.

VANNS=hoodlum bikers! :eek: