Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Mountain Biking
Reload this Page >

derailleurs and components in general

Notices
Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

derailleurs and components in general

Old 01-22-15, 01:39 PM
  #1  
engineerbob
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
engineerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Land of Eternal Winter
Posts: 280
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
derailleurs and components in general

Looking online at hardtails around $1000 and slightly above, I find that I am obsessing about their components. It seems that it is just about impossible to make an informed decision when choosing between "Shimano Deore XT Shadow", "Shimano XT", and "Shimano Deore". For all I know, some of them might be identical. It would not surprise me if the difference between a $200 derailleur and a $50 derailleur from the same manufacturer is nothing more than a few metal bushings.

Obviously, I want a derailleur that shifts cleanly and does not quickly degrade due to wear. The Shimano XTR on my 2001 Stumpjumper met those requirements. Is there an objective way to determine which derailleurs currently available are adequate?

Alternately, should I just assume that all components of a similar price point are equivalent?

Thanks.

Bob

Last edited by engineerbob; 01-22-15 at 01:46 PM.
engineerbob is offline  
Old 01-22-15, 02:09 PM
  #2  
dminor 
Moar cowbell
 
dminor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The 509
Posts: 12,479

Bikes: Bike list is not a resume. Nobody cares.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
To be quite honest, I don't know why people get so hung up on derailleurs on a mountain bike. Rear derailleurs are a darned-near consumable; you ride hard enough and long enough and you will destroy a few.

Now, having said that, the "Shadow" designator is significant because that means they're the new-style clutch derailleurs - - a plus particularly if your thinking of going 1x at some point. From there, anything Deore on up will give you crisp enough shifts to where it's just a difference between 'Really Good,' 'Really, Really Good' and 'Best.' Same on the SRAM side for X-5 and up.
__________________

Originally Posted by Mark Twain
"Don't argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
dminor is offline  
Old 01-22-15, 02:14 PM
  #3  
ColinL
Two-Wheeled Aficionado
 
ColinL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wichita
Posts: 4,903

Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur TR, Cannondale Quick CX dropbar conversion & others

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Shadow is rear derailleur with a roller clutch, which helps minimize chain slap and dropping it. Shadow plus is the newer version of it. Equivalent in SRAM will be type 2, or type 2.1. They work, I have a type 2 rear derailleur.

I used to have all Shimano's offerings memorized, but I've since purged it. Plain Deore is definitely 2 steps below XT though. (SLX in between.) The different trims aren't identical, but sometimes the only difference is weight.

The drivetrain is not a big deal except XTR is heinously expensive, unique and considerably lighter than XT. XT versus regular Deore is mostly about weight except for brakes. XT brakes are significantly better than regular Deore. Usually SRAM is a combo of X5 & X7 going against Shimano Deore or SLX, and SRAM X9 or X0 are slightly cheaper or slightly more expensive than Shimano XT.
ColinL is offline  
Old 01-22-15, 03:51 PM
  #4  
engineerbob
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
engineerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Land of Eternal Winter
Posts: 280
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I was not thinking about weight differences, as if those could possibly matter to me. Sure, light is better, but after a point, I cannot tell the difference. You have not seen me riding. The term "plodding" comes to mind.

It's starting to look as if there are no truly wretched bikes (from the mainstream manufactures, that is) in the $1K range.

Bob
engineerbob is offline  
Old 01-22-15, 05:19 PM
  #5  
DMC707
Senior Member
 
DMC707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 3,752

Bikes: Too many to list

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 869 Post(s)
Liked 173 Times in 116 Posts
It has been said by people smarter than me, that a first rate shifter (xt, xtr) paired with middle tier derailleurs (slx, deore) will work better than the other way around , but few brand managers spec bikes that way because they want to spec upper end parts in highly visible locations.

I ordered my latest bike with a budget build kit ( a lot of deore parts) -- and used some Amazon.com rewards i had built up to order a XTR 9000 1x11 group for it ( xtr 9000 not commonly available on complete bikes yet, plus -- i felt like i was getting it cheap this way - )

Previous bike was XTr , whatever was common in 07.

I fully expected to be horrified by the Deore/Race Face group performance and was counting the days until i got all the little shiny black shimano boxes in place on my workbench ------ but y'know , - i am shocked and surprised of the performance of the Deore 10 speed stuff--- it genuinely works well!
Shifting is very crisp and the hydraulic brakes are as good as my old xtr stuff---- that is trickle down technology at work for us!

Granted, its not going to be on the bike tomorrow- i have a wrench session scheduled tonight and am going to install the shiny stuff anyway because i am a bit of a bike nerd, but if i had to live with Deore/SLX for awhile, life wouldnt be bad. I dare say it works as well as my old XTR bike did before i sold it -- and i kept up with regular cable, chain and cassette maintenance on that one to ensure great performance
DMC707 is offline  
Old 01-22-15, 08:47 PM
  #6  
ColinL
Two-Wheeled Aficionado
 
ColinL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wichita
Posts: 4,903

Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur TR, Cannondale Quick CX dropbar conversion & others

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
^^ any 10 or 11 speed group is going to be solid today. Deore has always worked fine, it's when you get down into the stuff like Altus or Acera that things are a little wonky and a lot heavy.
ColinL is offline  
Old 01-22-15, 11:57 PM
  #7  
Canker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,391
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked 56 Times in 29 Posts
Worry about the fork. That is a big expense and a mediocre fork vs a good fork is very noticeable difference.
Canker is offline  
Old 01-23-15, 07:51 AM
  #8  
engineerbob
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
engineerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Land of Eternal Winter
Posts: 280
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Canker View Post
Worry about the fork. That is a big expense and a mediocre fork vs a good fork is very noticeable difference.
Other than stanchion diameter, how do I determine the quality of a fork's design? Rock Shox seems to be the standard, but other forks are out there.
engineerbob is offline  
Old 01-23-15, 08:12 AM
  #9  
ColinL
Two-Wheeled Aficionado
 
ColinL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wichita
Posts: 4,903

Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur TR, Cannondale Quick CX dropbar conversion & others

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Canker View Post
Worry about the fork. That is a big expense and a mediocre fork vs a good fork is very noticeable difference.
But the problem is that hardtails have been pushed down in price so much relative to the rising component costs, that almost no hardtail bikes come with even an entry-level trail ready fork. (I think the XC32 is the minimum, personally.) Suntour is killing the sub-$1200 market, and their XC series forks have very little damping. They work fine on sidewalks, but they bottom out quickly on any real singletrack.

So now we have to ask a newbie or someone returning to MTB after a long time to jump right in to a $1800+ full suspension bike, just to get a decent air fork with some damping? Ugh.
ColinL is offline  
Old 01-23-15, 08:27 AM
  #10  
engineerbob
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
engineerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Land of Eternal Winter
Posts: 280
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
Suntour is killing the sub-$1200 market, and their XC series forks have very little damping. They work fine on sidewalks, but they bottom out quickly on any real singletrack.
Could I correct that with a more viscous oil?

Last edited by engineerbob; 01-23-15 at 09:48 AM.
engineerbob is offline  
Old 01-23-15, 03:29 PM
  #11  
Canker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,391
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked 56 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by engineerbob View Post
Other than stanchion diameter, how do I determine the quality of a fork's design? Rock Shox seems to be the standard, but other forks are out there.
ColinL pretty well covered it. For under $1k from an LBS all forks are mediocre at best unless you get lucky. Suntour makes a few decent air forks like the radion and epicon but you almost never see those on a stock bike in the US. From Rock Shox you are in their spring XC28 or 32 price range and honestly I don't know if they are really any better than the "nicer" Suntour spring forks. The one bonus of the Rock Shox XC line has over the Suntours is parts are easy to get like if you need a heavier or lighter spring. If you get really lucky you might be able to find a marked down bike with a Rock Shox Recon Silver/Gold air fork. Those are pretty good but they usually start showing up at $1200+. Now if you are willing to buy a bike online it opens up some options. Sites like jenson, pricepoint, rei, .... usually have some left over bikes being sold with huge discounts but you have get lucky and find one in your size. Then there are places like bikesdirect and Airborne that usually have some nice bikes, the Airborne Seeker would be my choice rightnow but I don't like the tires on it so that would be an added expense.

Save Up to 60% Off Mountain Bikes - MTB - Breezer Thunder PRO
That is a damn good deal but it is a 26er which isn't hip anymore and there is only one 19.5" frame available so you probably need to be around 6ft to ride it. Breezer I believe is Performance Bike's store brand so I don't know why bikesdirect has it but whatever lol. Performance Bike is another site that sells a lot of left over discount bikes btw.
2014 Fuji Tahoe 29 1.3 Mountain Bike
Good deal from them for instance but a bit over budget.
Canker is offline  
Old 01-23-15, 06:14 PM
  #12  
DMC707
Senior Member
 
DMC707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 3,752

Bikes: Too many to list

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 869 Post(s)
Liked 173 Times in 116 Posts
Originally Posted by Canker View Post

Breezer I believe is Performance Bike's store brand .
PErformance may sell some as the brands they carry seems to change with the rustling breeze ---- but Breezer is far from being the Performance house brand.

Joe Breeze is largely credited with building the first pure mountain bike- back when he and friends like Gary Fisher and Tom Ritchey among others used to blast down hills in Marin county on old department store bikes

He has been around a long time, but shifted his focus to town bikes a few years back -- but recently came back to fat tires -- (guess the townies werent making enough $$$ ) -- Just saw a late model Breezer at my local trailhead 2 nights ago --- neat stuff

Breezer Bikes - Mountain Bikes | Transportation Bikes | Road Bikes
DMC707 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
justinzane
Bicycle Mechanics
25
10-10-15 03:15 PM
Ldosorio
Mountain Biking
7
04-02-14 02:43 PM
Mysterious Lady
Hybrid Bicycles
11
09-04-11 09:49 PM
maverick31210
Mountain Biking
15
04-07-11 03:01 PM
raslichk
Mountain Biking
6
03-19-11 10:36 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.