Monstermash

I know the 10 speed stuff works well together but what is the compatibility on the 11 speed stuff? Will a SRAM 11 speed cassette (road or Mtn) work with the new XTR M9000 derailleur and shifter?

ColinL

10 speed isn't really compatible other than cassettes and chains. Well, you can make a FD work acceptably well on most anything. But the cable pull and actuation ratios aren't close at all for Shimano and SRAM 10 speed.

11 speed MTN are completely incompatible. Shimano's 11 speed MTN is just like their 11 speed road, which has been out a while now.

SRAM 1x11 has a unique freehub called XD which has a 10T small ring kind of built into it / recessed -- 10T wouldn't fit on a normal spindle, that's why 11T has been the smallest for decades. Also has a unique chain made to fit narrow-wide teeth on the chainring. Cable pull and ratios are different.

So, if you like the SRAM 10-42 ultra-wide cassette, you have to go all SRAM. That cassette is so ridiculously expensive I would suggest buying only SRAM chains and rotating between at least 2 chains (some people use 4) to minimize chain stretch and the wear it puts on your gears.

MileHighMark

SRAM also has an 11-36 (11-speed) cassette that fits 11-speed road hubs. It's intended for use with their CX1 group. I'm running it on one of my bikes, and it works well.

Monstermash

Sorry but this is incorrect unless you have personally used a Shimano 11 speed road cassette with a new XTR M9000 rear derailleur and shifter.

This is my dilemma...

I just installed a set of the new XTR race brakes on my bike. I am currently running all XT 10 speed but would like to switch over to the new XTR 11 speed stuff without having spend $250+ for a cassette. I can buy a Shimano road 11 speed cassette fairly cheap but when I called Shimano they told me they were not compatible. The Ultegra 11 speed cassette come in 11-32t which is all the range I really need.

ColinL

No, that is not at all what I meant. Shimano's 11 speed mountain drivetrain is made to use on a regular 10/9 speed freehub. I meant that in contrast to SRAM's 11 speed mountain which has a unique freehub.

I don't know why anyone would want to mix road an mountain components.


Anyway, I would keep riding your XT. If you want 11 speed XTR you need shifters, cranks, chain, cassette, both derailleurs if you want it to shift the front perfectly, or rear only if you are ok with less than perfect front shifting.

Monstermash

I only run a single on the front so no worries on front shifting.

And the reason I want to mix road and mtn components is because I'm trying to save a little on the rear cassette. So really all was hoping for is that a Shimano road cassette would work with the XTR mtn drivetrain.

md11mx

If I was tempted I sure as hell would give it a try. You will probably have to adjust your chain length.
Cheers,
David in Alaska

Monstermash

It would be a complete new drivetrain so chain length wouldn't be an issue. But considering when I called Shimano they said it wouldn't work I don't think I want to just try it as it would be a lot of money just to see if it worked. Lol!

I find it hard to believe that Shimano's mtn bike 11 speed cassette wouldn't be compatible with their road shiftersthough. What if someone wanted to use the XTR 11-40t cassette for cyclocross?

MileHighMark

The cassette isn't the issue--it's the cable-pull requirements. Shimano's road and mtb lines were compatible up to a point, but the mtb derailleur cable-pull requirements when they introduced 10s mtb (DynaSys)

ColinL

Yes. I mentioned this in the second post.

I'm also aware there is some discussion elsewhere, such as MTBR, where people are saying that they got some mix of 10 & 11 speed Shimano to work.

That depends entirely on what you call 'working'. It will move the rear derailleur - yes. I simply do not believe that can be tuned to shift up and down the cassette correctly, one gear per press of the shifter, as the matched 10 *or* 11 speed components will certainly do.

Component manufacturers do not want you to mix components with competitor brands or with different generations of their own equipment. When they make a jump from 9/10/11 speed, why would they want you to do anything less than buy all the new stuff? And when they release new stuff, why would they want to test cross-compatibility with older stuff?

MileHighMark

The improved road/mtb cross-compatibility is why some folks prefer SRAM drivetrains (at least prior to the introduction of 11-speed).

Monstermash

The ONLY question here is if the Mtn bike 11 speed cassette has the same cog spacing as the 11 speed road stuff.

I'm not planning on using road shifters with the mtn derailleur or vice versa. So cable pull ratios are not relevant.

MileHighMark

This might help:
Shimano XTR M9000 11-speed Component Compatibility FAQs - Useful for Cyclocross? Gravel? - Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos

gsa103

Do you have 11-speed (road) compatible wheels? The road cassette is wider than the 10-speed cassette, so you need an 11-speed specific wheelset. For 11-speed road, basically everyone needed to buy new wheels. XTR cassette let the 40t overhang the freehub so they can fit an 11-speed cassette on a standard 8/9/10 freehub.

I would imagine that you could use the Ultegra cassette, but you'd likely need a new (probably custom) wheelset to do it. So you'd probably save $300 on the cassette but need to spend $800 on new wheels...

Monstermash

You are correct. This could be a sticking point. I just ordered new wheels anyway but I ordered the 2015 Mavic Crossmax SL and I'm not sure if the 11 speed road cassette will fit on the freehub or not. I was torn between the Crossmax and the new Ksyrium Disc wheels. I know the Ksyrium will fit the 11 speed road cassette but they are 4mm narrower than the Crossmax's which is why I went with the Crossmax.

I wonder if Shimano is planning on releasing 11 speed XT components?

gsa103

Mavic road wheels have been 11-speed compatible for a long time. There was some Mavic standard that required the use of a spacer to fit a normal 10-speed cassette. If your new wheels come with the spacer then you have a decent chance.

I <3 Robots

The 11sp XTR shifter and derailleur will work with the XX1 cassette. Guys on MTBR are using that setup. Apparently the cog spacing is the same or close enough that it will work.

norwegianbiker

So did the 11 speed road cassette end up working on the Crossmax SL freehub?

Monstermash

I should know by the end of the week hopefully. My wheels haven't arrives at my LBS yet. As soon as they arrive we are going to try the 11 speed road cassette. I'll report back when I know.

norwegianbiker

Sure would be awesome if they are.

Monstermash

Ok, bad news. The 11 speed road cassette does not fit on the Crossmax SL free hub.

So I guess if I want to go 11 speed I'll have to bit the bullet and buy the XTR cassette. Or I can wait and hope Shimano will release an XT 11 speed option.

Anyway, I know it's not a mountain bike but she does have mtn bike components. Here is the bike I wanted to upgrade to the XTR 11 speed drivetrain. I think it may be worth it.

norwegianbiker

Great looking build. I discovered the same thing today when I was at a LBS that had the SL's and no dice.